Politics XXXIV (Politics never changes)

[ComradeYellow]

As a 3d political chess player I'm happy with the South Carolina episode and it's offshoots.

Trust me, the last thing real progressives want is Bernie winning the nomination.

[Hurlshort]

Here's another ridiculous health care cost story: https://www.yahoo.com/news/american-quarantined-check-signs-coronavirus-192948402.html

We shouldn't need to crowdfund to cover health expenses. These folks are making a fortune off our health: 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Hurlshot said:

I don't understand how anyone looks at our medical insurance system and thinks it works in any way. Companies are raking in huge profits while everyone struggles with medical debt. We managed to create an education system that is open and free to everyone without turning into a communist dystopia, so I'm pretty sure we can find a way to cover healthcare costs.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2019/08/04/as-sanders-and-warren-attack-private-health-insurer-profits-soar/#7aa7e83c532b

It works very well if you consider its purpose to be collecting premiums rather than providing adequate healthcare to the insured. I remember talking to a guy who worked at an insurance company and after a few drinks outright said what we all know or suspect, that they don't make money by paying claims.

[ComradeYellow]

Yet the U.S. also has one of the least best educational systems there is.  It's all propaganda.  "At least it's not a Communist dystopia" is the standard fare Americana excuse story for having a largely poorly educated and ignorant citizenship, it almost parallels with Soviet Education xD.

Edited March 2, 2020 by ComradeMaster

[Hurlshort]

Insurance is such a strange concept. I mean, I guess it works for things that you are hopefully not going to ever need. Hopefully I will never need my life insurance policy, but for $37 a month, it is nice to know my family is covered if I die during a 25-year period of time. Auto insurance is a bit more pricey, but my odds of being in a fender bender are decent enough given the miles I drive, so it's comforting. But again, that is firmly in the hopefully not going to need category. Insurance doesn't cover general maintenance for a good reason.

With medical, we all need it on a regular basis. We are healthier when we do so. We pay a tremendous amount into this system that is an absolute mess.

[Gfted1]

...whose Chinese insurance from the standardized testing company he works for does not offer coverage in the United States.

Wait, are we supposed to offer free medical coverage to everyone who makes landfall?

[Zoraptor]

No you aren't. Non taxpayers pay for healthcare in most countries with a universal system- though most normal treatments are considerably less expensive than in the US even at 'market' rates. Visitors are supposed to have either travel or medical insurance to protect them from medical costs.

[Hurlshort]

21 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Wait, are we supposed to offer free medical coverage to everyone who makes landfall?

It's obviously a more complex issue than that, but that would be the humane thing to do. But let's break it down:

1. The government offered to evacuate him out of the country and then hit him with a bill well over a reasonable cost of a flight.

2. He had insurance in China, but that does not work in the US. Why? He's paid into an insurance program. If the insurance company represents his best interests, they should be supporting him here, and the hospitals should be working with that company instead of him as an individual.

3. He is expected to cover $2200 for the flight and $2,600 for the ambulance (because it costs more to drive to the hospital from the airport than fly across the Pacific Ocean, apparently.)

4. The hospital actually waived the costs on their end. That was the right thing to do. But if we had a better system, it wouldn't even be an issue.

[ShadySands]

Klobuchar and Buttigieg appear ready to back Biden. Is the party deciding?

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

though most normal treatments are considerably less expensive than in the US even at 'market' rates.

...and this I think is really the biggest problem with the US "health care". It's ridiculously overpriced. I once shared a link showing price differences between common, essential medications (i.e. stuff for cancer treatment, diabetes, hypertension etc.) and prices for the exact same brand and drug were between 200% and 2000% higher when US customers had to pay for them. I guess it works on the principle, if it goes, it goes and lets see how much we can wring out of them before they croak?

 

[Bartimaeus]

11 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Klobuchar and Buttigieg appear ready to back Biden. Is the party deciding?

Ultimately, if Bernie can't earn 50% of the vote and was only previously the leader because of an absolutely splintered field, then he did not really deserve to win. We'll have to see how much Warren hurts him and how much Bloomberg hurts Biden tomorrow to really see where we stand in the "who screwed who" blame game, I guess.

[MedicineDan]

It's so funny to see so many pundits writing off Biden's campaign.  There were at least a few who claimed his best day in the campaign would be his first and then all downhill.  He clearly is diminished in his capacity and I never thought he had as much up stairs as he liked to think, but the rest of the field has always sucked.  I think we could probably flip a coin right now, but I bet we'll have a damned accurate picture by tomorrow night.  ...Or, put it this way, if we don't know who won at least almost all the races by the time we go to bed on the west coast, we'll still know something to give us a picture.  Even not calling most of these races will tell us something about how things are going.

[BruceVC]

4 hours ago, MedicineDan said:

It's so funny to see so many pundits writing off Biden's campaign.  There were at least a few who claimed his best day in the campaign would be his first and then all downhill.  He clearly is diminished in his capacity and I never thought he had as much up stairs as he liked to think, but the rest of the field has always sucked.  I think we could probably flip a coin right now, but I bet we'll have a damned accurate picture by tomorrow night.  ...Or, put it this way, if we don't know who won at least almost all the races by the time we go to bed on the west coast, we'll still know something to give us a picture.  Even not calling most of these races will tell us something about how things are going.

I have always supported Biden as the best candidate to defeat Trump because he supports a moderate view of politics and is aligned to the Obama legacy

But I am not sure he is the right candidate as he  does seem a little ....dazed at times but lets see  

[Gorth]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

But I am not sure he is the right candidate as he  does seem a little ....dazed at times but lets see  

The best candidate would be Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, except for the stupid age limitations in the constitution or whatever. It's like they only ever intended that position for white, old men

Anyway, the speed at which Trump is tearing the US society apart, I think he's the one who is going to get credited with getting AOC elected as a counterpoint once she's old enough, simply because of the polarization generated in the US society.

[Skarpen]

3 hours ago, Gorth said:

The best candidate would be Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, except for the stupid age limitations in the constitution or whatever. It's like they only ever intended that position for white, old men

Anyway, the speed at which Trump is tearing the US society apart, I think he's the one who is going to get credited with getting AOC elected as a counterpoint once she's old enough, simply because of the polarization generated in the US society.

AOC will be one term glitch and will be forgotten in short while. Trump is forever

[Guard Dog]

Biden's endorsements are stacking up. The former candidates, big name former office holders, even Barack Obama today according to the WaPo. I have to say it's pretty commendable for Pete B & Klobuchar, who both still had paths to victory, to step aside. If in fact it was done to unite the party behind Not Bernie Sanders. Had the Republicans been so wise in 2016 we likely would not have the Orange Menace in office today. 

[Skarpen]

14 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Biden's endorsements are stacking up. The former candidates, big name former office holders, even Barack Obama today according to the WaPo. I have to say it's pretty commendable for Pete B & Klobuchar, who both still had paths to victory, to step aside. If in fact it was done to unite the party behind Not Bernie Sanders. Had the Republicans been so wise in 2016 we likely would not have the Orange Menace in office today. 

There would be another Clinton though. I'm pretty sure you would be more upset then.

[Guard Dog]

26 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

There would be another Clinton though. I'm pretty sure you would be more upset then.

Not necessarily. Hillary Clinton is still the most hated political figure in the US at that time. Nasty, shrill, arrogant, and condescending, and those were he good qualities. Given a viable alternative (meaning not Jeb Bush) and Clinton's flaws there is still a real good chance she loses in '16.

[Guard Dog]

Interesting piece from Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/youngs-dont-care-about-ussr/607249/

The gist of it is, young people who were not around when the Soviet Union was a thing don't have first hand knowledge of how communism has been used by governments to do terrible things. So they are not afraid of it. 

I have one simple question: Do you trust your government? 

If the answer is anything other than "NO" then you are probably not paying attention to it. And if the answer is "NO" then how could you support any economic system that empowers it so?

Edited March 3, 2020 by Guard Dog
Correction

[Maedhros]

Like the article says - Denmark, not Cuba. It's fully possible to have good welfare systems without abandoning democracy or capitalism.

If anything, I think helping the lower and middle class economically would indirectly give less power to the government and more power to the people.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Maedhros
more words

[Malcador]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

And if the answer is "NO" then how could you support any economic system that empowers it so?

So don't support any economic system at all then ? 

[213374U]

I don't know, comrade. Looks like it's inevitable that your country will turn to communism at this rate, because freedom capitalism is failing an increasing amount of people. Old people have a habit of dying off.

See, Notorious communists Truman and Marshall knew what's up. They understood that giving billions of precious dollars extracted at gunpoint from hard-working taxpayers to the denizens of destroyed Europe was preferable to suggesting they pull themselves up by their bootstraps, in spite of the fact that the war had been 100% their fault and something something responsibility for decisions. The alternative was to hold on to pie-in-the-sky notions and surely push millions of impoverished Euros straight into uncle Joe's arms. Such egregious redistribution of wealth led, paradoxically, to ~30 years of the "American dream" for Americans and Euros.

The vaccine for authoritarian communism isn't more capitalism freedom. It's material conditions that discourage enough people from wanting to forcibly collectivize private property.

Thanks for listening to my TED talk.

Edited March 3, 2020 by 213374U
i cant into grammar

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

So don't support any economic system at all then ? 

Nope. I saw we go back to barter. I'll trade you 48 eggs, 20 coyote pelts, 2 gallons of sourmash 'shine, and a bushel of watermelons for 100 gallons of heating oil and two bottles of good maple syrup!

[Malcador]

Wonder how gun sales would work

[Guard Dog]

43 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Wonder how gun sales would work

Depends on which one you want and what you've got to offer. I have quite a few!