Politics and Statesmenship: A Forum Special Report

[HoonDing]

Kakistocracy.

[smjjames]

2 hours ago, ktchong said:

Trump drained the swamp, and then quickly refilled it with worse people.

Obviously.

[Lexx]

Yeah but that makes it a different swamp.

[injurai]

Onions have layers.

[ShadySands]

So do ogres

[Guard Dog]

Listening to Congress squeal about how Trump is undercutting it's enumerated powers is amusing. They didn't say a f-----g word when almost every President since Wilson undermined them. Most of that time  they were even complicit in their own marginalization.  They say nothing when the executive takes on more and more power because all 535 of them hope one day THEY will be the one to have that power. It was inevitable a complete and utter fool would eventually end up with it. And NOW they bitch and moan. It's like a eunuch waking up one day and finally realizing he was castrated a long time ago and now starts pining for his ling lost balls. 

 

I'm glad Jefferson, Hamilton, Paine, Adams, Burr, and the others didn't live to see this hot mess we've devolved into. They would probably raise another rebellion. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Guard Dog
And another thing

[Gromnir]

...

"going nuclear" weren't something invented by the most recent senate. the second half of obama's Presidency were a constant drag-out fight 'tween the republican held senate, and the democrats in the house and oval office. harry reid accused the senate and mitch mcconnell o' being obstructionist while mitch and republicans lambasted the extra-constitutional behaviour o' obama and his curious new approach to executive orders.

clinton were impeached.

clinton were impeached.

said twice, 'cause clear gd weren't paying attention or has forgotten or is trying to ignore.

ronald reagan's tenure were marred by iran-contra, with Congress out for blood 'cause the wh were doing illegal and unconstitutional.

nixon?

oh, and jefferson is the guy who got the ball rolling with the transformation o' the office o' the Presidency, but we have had this discussion previous, no? louisiana purchase? unconstitutional. jefferson didn't like how fed Courts kept ruling 'gainst him, so he tried to destroy the Courts and he were not subtle. jefferson used the power o' his office to fabricate charges 'gainst a political rival, and he were even more blatant and petty 'bout it than is trump's fixation with clinton... and we could add to the list.

Congress, for the past few decades, has indeed become indolent and torpid. if your goal is reelection, then do nothing apparently is better than doing the wrong thing? incumbents have big advantages and thanks to super pac money, being a member o' Congress is an extreme lucrative endeavour-- being a public servant these last few decades has become less and less 'bout serving the public. sadly, the campaign finance limit legislation ended up being deemed unconstitutional and legislative mercenary situation has only gotten worse. nowadays is a smidge different as Congress complains 'bout Presidential excess while refusing to actual do anything themselves, a problem which is compounded by historical infrequent, but increasing common (thanks to gerrymandering efforts) party split 'tween senate and house. 

that said, trump Presidency is different. as already observed, is easy to find examples historical o' Presidential excess and Congressional hand wringing, but takes us multiple decades o' chief executives to equal the nonsense trump has indulged in just over a couple years... and the lies. as much as a few folks wanna indulge in soviet-like false equivalency and deflection efforts to normalize trump behavior compared to predecessors, it just ain't real. for chrissakes, trump lies 'bout wind turbines, and when media calls him on the lies, he compounds... presence o' wind turbines decreases property values by ever increasing amounts, and the sound from 'em causes cancer? but all politicians lie and fake media, so somehow is less bad? 

am knowing gd dislikes the fed government as a matter o' principle, but you may, just a bit, indulge in a teensy-weensy bit o' hyperbole... from time-to-time. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps onions may have layers, and so too do ogres and hell, but we never saw a point to the observation insofar as onions is concerned. no different than a potato. look at an onion and it may look perfect, but peel back the layers... but nobody peels an onion beyond skin, which makes it no different, from a practical pov, the humble tater. chop and slice is what you do with onions. cut into an onion and maybe there is a bad spot which weren't obvious by looking at or smelling the onion. so cut the damn bad spot out and you got yourself a perfect fine onion or tater.

'course onions and taters may have bad spots which go down to the heart. bad spot started deep within and expanded out, and no 'mount o' culinary surgery is gonna save. some onions, and taters, need be discarded.

regardless, am not caring 'bout onions and layers, 'cause we chop and dice and slice onions. doesn't everybody?

Edited May 9, 2019 by Gromnir
onions

[Guard Dog]

18 hours ago, Gromnir said:

am knowing gd dislikes the fed government as a matter o' principle, but you may, just a bit, indulge in a teensy-weensy bit o' hyperbole... from time-to-time. 

More than a teensy bit and more than some of the time. That isn't an accident. I enjoy a spirited discussion and sometimes the charcoal just won't light without a little lighter fluid. 

 

Now on to your point. I am certainly not criticizing the House for performing it's oversight function and you already know what I think of the President and his activities. I'm grouchy because they only seem to be interested in the wrongdoing of the executive when the two are opposite parties. If you want to be a co-equal branch of the government then you need to be co-equal ALL of the time. Not just when "not their guy" is living down the street. 

 

Now as far as the executive usurping legislature power, there has always been tension between the two. Lincoln was certainly no saint in his abuses, extenuating circumstances of a civil war not withstanding. But it seems to me they really hit the gas with Woodrow Wilson. He was the worst, most damaging President in our history and a good bit of the horrors of the 20th Century were set in motion by his good intentions.  But with Wilson, Congress just handed him some of their responsibilities. Tariffs for example. Of course it was supposed to be used only in war time or in the event of national emergencies. Obviously that didn't work out. The enumerated powers of each branch should have been zealously guarded. Not handed over by resolution or (worse) just ignored without challenge. But, likely too late to do anything about it now. This country would not survive a Constitutional Convention as a unified political entity and we're all likely screwed when bitcoin replaces the dollar as the currency of choice for trade so all there is to do is bitch about it. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Guard Dog
Bad grammar

[Chilloutman]

Adam is ruining especially himself:

 

 

[Pidesco]

I see this both on the left and the right side (and whatever side) of the debate on youtube, but every time I see a video with the words "destroy", or "wrecks" or "shames", written in CAPS, I just tune out.

[Chilloutman]

1 hour ago, Pidesco said:

I see this both on the left and the right side (and whatever side) of the debate on youtube, but every time I see a video with the words "destroy", or "wrecks" or "shames", written in CAPS, I just tune out.

 

same, but its just part of JRE podcast, there is no commentary to it (I think, I watched whole podcast but jsut wanted to put it this segment)

[213374U]

2 hours ago, Pidesco said:

the debate on youtube

that was your mistake

[injurai]

If I recall the whole "DETROYS" thing really took off mid-2000s in talking about sports and video games. Anything competitive. Around the same time people were saying Beast and Uber a lot. For some reason in the political/debate circles it's become a meme, that people at the same time take seriously. All it does is signify someone get's "shutdown" in a salient way, because people like that sort of content.

Of course when Ben Shapiro destroys someone, it's actually true. You may not have heard, but his wife is a doctor.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

4 hours ago, Pidesco said:

I see this both on the left and the right side (and whatever side) of the debate on youtube, but every time I see a video with the words "destroy", or "wrecks" or "shames", written in CAPS, I just tune out.

Pidesco DESTROYS youtube debates with FACTS and LOGIC.

[majestic]

43 minutes ago, KaineParker said:

Pidesco DESTROYS youtube debates with FACTS and LOGIC.

What happened then will SHOCK you.

[Malcador]

The Internet was a terrible idea.

 

Synchronicity at work.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Malcador

[injurai]

I literally was just coming here to post that

[ktchong]

48 minutes ago, injurai said:

I literally was just coming here to post that

Same here.

Edited May 10, 2019 by ktchong

[HoonDing]

Ben who?

[smjjames]

12 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

More than a teensy bit and more than some of the time. That isn't an accident. I enjoy a spirited discussion and sometimes the charcoal just won't light without a little lighter fluid. 

 

Now on to your point. I am certainly not criticizing the House for performing it's oversight function and you already know what I think of the President and his activities. I'm grouchy because they only seem to be interested in the wrongdoing of the executive when the two are opposite parties. If you want to be a co-equal branch of the government then you need to be co-equal ALL of the time. Not just when "not their guy" is living down the street. 

 

Now as far as the executive usurping legislature power, there has always been tension between the two. Lincoln was certainly no saint in his abuses, extenuating circumstances of a civil war not withstanding. But it seems to me they really hit the gas with Woodrow Wilson. He was the worst, most damaging President in our history and a good bit of the horrors of the 20th Century were set in motion by his good intentions.  But with Wilson, Congress just handed him some of their responsibilities. Tariffs for example. Of course it was supposed to be used only in war time or in the event of national emergencies. Obviously that didn't work out. The enumerated powers of each branch should have been zealously guarded. Not handed over by resolution or (worse) just ignored without challenge. But, likely too late to do anything about it now. This country would not survive a Constitutional Convention as a unified political entity and we're all likely screwed when bitcoin replaces the dollar as the currency of choice for trade so all there is to do is bitch about it. 

How do I view the underlying bbc code? Would be easier to split up the quote that way.

 

Anyway.....

"now onto your point...."

i totally agree with you here. I believe I’ve voiced here my frustrations on that here before, and it’s become especially egregious with the Republican Party, they’re breaking so many precedents that they’ll wish that they hadn’t. 

"hit the gas with Woodrow Wilson..."

i thought that started more with FDR and then the post WWII era? At least that’s when the modern ‘imperial presidency’ started to really gel or something. Not that there weren’t others who pushed the envelope, Teddy Roosevelt comes to mind. 

Re constitutional conventions: Well, it’s doable IF you’re EXTREMELY careful as to how you go about it. Since new state constitutions have been done in the last 60 years (most in the 1960s and 70s though, last one was 1983), I suppose some kind of patchwork solution could work, but the federal government would probably have to decentralize to the levels of Spain (cue California-Catalonia comparisons, lol) in order for that to work. Just thinking out loud really, not a serious solution. 

 

"Bitcoin"

To be fair, every national currency would be in the same boat in that scenario.

Edited May 11, 2019 by smjjames
Boldifying ‘extremely’ seems a bit much...

[majestic]

Trump's currently DESTROYING my emerging markets ETF. Meh.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Bitcoin DESTROYS my money by being Tulip Mania 2.0.

[Lexx]

Bitcoin is still a thing?

[injurai]

Charleston Chew is still a thing

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Lexx said:

Bitcoin is still a thing?

There's some fellas still hoping it goes past $20k again but it seems to be dead like most crypto.