Deadfire Polishing Poll

[Phenomenum]

As i remember, Crimson helm was mentioned, because it has no enchantment

[DragorTheDrake]

3 minutes ago, Phenomenum said:

As i remember, Crimson helm was mentioned, because it has no enchantment

I was saying that because Boeroer stated in his post on updates something about deltro cage helm enhantment and i was wondering what he ment by that as i thought it was the crimson helm that had the problem with the enchantment.

 

[Boeroer]

Ah sorry. I meant Crimson Panoply Helm. :oops:

[DragorTheDrake]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Ah sorry. I meant Crimson Panoply Helm. :oops:

its fine i thought that 

actully on the subject of the Crimson Helm i was wondering what would the description of the item be once its enchanted?

I was thinking something along the lines of "wearing this helm fills your sight with a bloodied haze of rage as if you are no longer that of kith anymore but more akin to that of a Blood Red Fiend"

just something I thought up

[Elric Galad]

Thank you very much for all the work ! This is wonderful ! In the current list, there is not a single change that I don't agree with (only a couple are neutral to me). I especially like Arcane Archer PR correction and godlike buff cause it makes basically all classes and races viable (SC Arcane Archer being the safest pick for SC Ranger powerbuild).

SC Fighter and Rogue are better too, Psion feels good enough (good for Cipher/caster MC) and shattered pillar comes back from the dead. 

This is the true Power of consensus ! (Which also makes playing with the patch feeling legit, not like all these powercreep Mods )

Edited June 20, 2019 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

We really have to watch out that the trinkets don't turn into a power creep fest. I mean the priest does indeed need more versatility when it comes to spell choice. But we have to be careful with the bonuses. Maybe put in some backdraws if it gives you a bonus besides spell knowledge (look at Vaporous Wizardry which interrupts you on every damage you take but gives you +1 spell use per tier - which is too good in my opinion but you get my point).

Edited June 20, 2019 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

Some questions and comments :

1) What do you mean by 1s prone ? I thought prone was 3s animation in parallel with recovery Time from interrupt (source : Thelee Gamefaq). Prone is basically 1s additional Time from interrupt. Is it that duration that you set to 1,5s, for a total 3,5 animation ?

2) While I agree that grimoires are strong, I am not sure Priest and Druid as a whole need a specific buff. First because they have roughly 20% more HP than wiz which is not major but still significant. In addition, even if they have less spells, they have party buff and/or heals. IMHO, they are arguably more versatile spellcasters than wiz even with less spells (self buffs being less significant). So yup, trinkets feel a bit powercreeping. I like the idea if +2 ressources trinkets for everyclasses (martial single class would like it) but I have some doubts about where all this would end...

3) I get you are thinking about nerfing Scordeo's Edge and Brillant. Still it feels a bit like killing the fun and may make the mod less popular. 12s spell restoration  with Brillant might be enough to prevent the full synergy with SoT. Without SoT/Brillant, Scordeo's would still be great but not that easy to maintain. Brillant sources might even get a bit more duration to compensate (would be slightly better for martial classes as a result).

HOWEVER Brillant + SoT is one of the tool to win the War of Attrition against Megabosses. So be careful before removing it (as you removed resonant touch trick), which leads to comment #4.

4) Megabosses encounter design is an issue in my opinion, especially Dorudugan. Dorudugan basically denies the player most of his abilities AND removes the interest of ALL NON RENEWABLE RESSOURCES due to his HP pool. This leads to a situation where builds have to be balanced not only for 99,9% of the game AND against a single ennemy which favors totally different setup (invalidating 8 classes ressources out of 11 does not feel like a good design). I thing altering Megabosses might make overall balance easier to reach.

 

Sorry for editing my post several times but I am writing on a smartphone I was afraid to loose my text with a misclick.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Elric Galad

[Phenomenum]

13 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

1) What do you mean by 1s prone ? I thought prone was 3s animation in parallel with recovery Time from interrupt (source : Thelee Gamefaq). Prone is basically 1s additional Time from interrupt. Is it that duration that you set to 1,5s, for a total 3,5 animation ?

Yep. 1,5 sec. on the ground.

 

[DragorTheDrake]

6 hours ago, Boeroer said:

We really have to watch out that the trinkets don't turn into a power creep fest. I mean the priest does indeed need more versatility when it comes to spell choice. But we have to be careful with the bonuses. Maybe put in some backdraws if it gives you a bonus besides spell knowledge (look at Vaporous Wizardry which interrupts you on every damage you take but gives you +1 spell use per tier - which is too good in my opinion but you get my point).

So when do you think the next update could be released?

[Boeroer]

15 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

2) While I agree that grimoires are strong, I am not sure Priest and Druid as a whole need a specific buff. First because they have roughly 20% more HP than wiz which is not major but still significant. In addition, even if they have less spells, they have party buff and/or heals. IMHO, they are arguably more versatile spellcasters than wiz even with less spells (self buffs being less significant). So yup, trinkets feel a bit powercreeping. I like the idea if +2 ressources trinkets for everyclasses (martial single class would like it) but I have some doubts about where all this would end...

Again: trinkets (as I/we want to do them) are not about power or buffing but about enhanced versatility when it comes to spell choice. Just because a class has more spells to choose from doesn't necessarily mean they are more powerful (in an ideal system where all spells are equally useful). Priests have less spell choice than Druids have less spell choice than Wizards. Per se - without grimoires. That means that wizards already are a lot more versatile when it comes to possible/feasible/fun to play build options. This has nothing to do with their level of power - but all with the spell choice. IN that regard, Druids are better than Priests (more spells to choose from) but worse than Wizards. And then Wizards get a huge, huge amount of additonal spell choice via grimoires on top.

Thus it's no sursprise that the biggest complaint about Priests (that was voiced very early - even during beta and right after release) is that they feel so "railroaded" when it comes to spell choice at level up. Not only do priests choose from the most restricted spell pool - but also it is the spell pool with the biggest proportion of rather circumstancial spells, some of them even a bit redundant (Blessing vs. Dire Blessing for example).  An early suggestion (see @Gromnir's early posts about that but also mine and others'), after the horrible restrictions of the first iteration of Priest subclasses were lifted (restricted access to spells because of subclass choice) was to give Priests trinkets that add spells (not as spell uses but as spell choices) just like grimoires do.

Wizards are supposed to be "researchers" of magic and thus is makes sense that they can choose from a huge pool of spells via grimoires. So, I'm not aiming to give Priests the exact same amount of "freedom". Priests already gain a "free" spell choice at evey power level, so giving them two spells per PL like grimoires do is not fair. I personally think giving them even 1 spell choice on every PL with every trinket is too much - thus I also thought of trinkets that only add one ot two spells in total (besides some which do indeed add 1 per PL).

On the other hand I don't want to create trinkets that feel too boring or generic. Adding a slight PL bonus for the spells that most players deem "useless" (see Prayers/Litanies for the Body/Mind) seems like a good idea to promote their use. Also adding one ot two trinkets that not necessarily make the character more powerful but give him some "cool" build options (see Deathguard) might help. 

Arguing that Priests are more versatile than Wizards even with less spells... well... I guess 90% of the forum would not agree with you. Depends what you mean though. If you mean "they can heal, deal damage and buff while Wizards only can do self buffing, deal damage and CC" then maybe I could understand what you want to say, but I'd still say that's not really the case. Anyway: the spells with which they fulfill their roles in a party/situation (healer, buffer, damage dealer) are nearly always the same while a Wizard can pick from a huge variety of spells to achieve the same outcome. Thus a wizard can pick from a huge list of spells that fit his player's idea of a character/build and still can do his thing reliably (e.g. pick either Noxious Burst for dealing damage or Fireball or Malignant Could or Freezing Pillar or whatever) while for a Priest's... it's always Shinging Beacon here, Pillars of Flames there. It's kind of boring.

Because of that I (and others) argue that Priests need trinkets that widen their spell choice a bit. Same with Druids, but to a lesser extend. Druids have some really nice items and subclasses that boost certain keywords (elemental in general, shock, storms, beast, plant, rejuvenation) but none for decay for example. Thus the first impulse is to build an Ancient (Beast/Plant), Fury (all elemental+storms) or Livegiver (Rejuvenation). Few people would pick an Animist who specializes on decay spells (if it's about power) because it's inferior. So in order to open up that direction I would add a trinket with a few decay spells and a PL bonus to decay. This wouldn't make a decay druid more powerful than a beast druid. So no power creep. It would him make a bit more powerful than before, sure. But he wasn't on par in the first place. 

Edited June 21, 2019 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

6 hours ago, DragorTheDrake said:

So when do you think the next update could be released?

No idea. @Phenomenum and @MaxQuest seem to be very busy atm - and same is true for me. I will have more time after July 25th or so. Maybe the others will be more free before that, but I don't know. Anyway I'm just writing down stuff from the forum that maybe needs a fix - and doing trinket descriptions atm and nothing else. I only have like an hour of free time every day currently. It's hard to do more than typing some stuff into the forums here and there. Maybe I will also do the corresponding icons (at least some mockuops for starters). Phenomenum and MaxQuest do all the heavy lifting with the modding itself. 
But with the trinkets I personally also would like to do a poll on all the stuff I suggested once I'm finished. So that only the trinkets get included that everybody (or most players) are comfortable with and like to have in the game. 

Edited June 21, 2019 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Again: trinkets (as I/we want to do them) are not about power or buffing but about enhanced versatiliy when it comes to spellchoice. Just because a class has more spells to choose from doesn't necessarily mean they are more powerful (in an ideal world where all spells are euqally useful). Priests have less spell choice than Druids have less spell choice than Wizards. Per se - without grimoires. That means that wizards already are a lot more versatile when it comes to possible/feasible/fuung to play build options. THis has nothing to do with their level of power but all with the spell choice. Druids are better than Priests (more spells to choose from) but worse than Wizards. And then Wizards get a huge, huge amount of additonal spell choice via grimoires.

Thus it's no sursprise that the bggest complaint about Priests (that was voiced very early even during beta and right after release) is that they feel so "railroaded" when it comes to spell choice at level up. Not only do priests choose from the most restricted spell pool - but also it is the spell pool with the biggest proportion of rather circumstancial spells, some of them even a bit redundant (Blessing vs. Dire Blessing for example).  An early suggestion (see @Gromnir's early posts about that but also mine and others'), after the horrible restrictions of the first iteration of Priest subclasses were lifted (restricted access to spells because of subclass choice) was to give Priests trinkets that add spells just like grimoires do.

Wizards are supposed to be "researchers" of magic and thus is makes sense that they can choose from a huge pool of spells via grimoires. So, I'm not aiming to give Priests the exact same amount of "freedom". Priests already gain a "free" spell choice at evey power level, so giving them two spells per PL like grimoires do is not fair. I personally think giveing them even 1 spell choice on every PL via trinket is too much - thus I thought of trinkets that only add one ot two spells in total.

On the other hand I don't want to crate trinkets that feel too boring or generic. Adding a slight PL bonus for the spells that most players deem "useless" seems like a good idea to promote their use. Also adding one ot two trinkets that not necessarily make the character more powerful but give him some "cool" build options (see Deathguard) might help. 

Arguing that Priests are more versatile than Wizards even with less spells... well... I guess 90% of the forum would not agree with you. Depends what you mean though. If you mean "they can heal, deal damage and buff while Wizards only can do self buffing, deal damage and CC" then maybe I could understand waht you want to say, but I'd still say that's not really the case. Anyway: the spells with which they fulfill their roles in a party and situation (healer, buffer, damage dealer) are nearly always the same while a Wizard can pick from a huge variety of spells to achieve the same outcome. Thus a wizard can pick from a huge list of spells that fit his player's idea of a character/build and still can do his thing reliably (e.g. pick either Noxious Burst for dealing damage or Fireball or Malignant Could or Freezing Pillar or whatever) while for a Priest's... it's alsways Shinging Beacon here, Pillars of Flames there. It's kind of boring.

Because of that I (and others) argue that Priests need trinkets that widen their spell choice a bit. Same with Druids, but to a lesser extend. Druids have some really nice items and subclasses that boost certain keywords (elemental in general, shock, storms, beast, plant, rejuvenation) but none for decay for example. Thus the first impulse is to build an Ancient (Beast/Plant), Fury (all elemental+storms) or Livegiver (Rejuvenation). Few people would pick an Animist who specializes on decay spells (if it's about power) because it's inferiour. So in order to open up that direction I would add a trinket with a few decay spells and a PL bonus to decay. THis wouldn't make a decay druid more powerful than a beast druid. So no power creep. It would him make a bit more powerful than before, sure. But he wasn't on par in the first place. 

Ok, I think I can agree with this. Also I can see the purpose of trinkets for some situational spells such as antidote.

I also agree with your previous comment that a trinket with a bonus needs a malus too (such as +1 Inspiration/-1 Punishment).

In a nutshell :

Wiz Pro : better trinket swapping (but with a lesser margin than before), wider spell selection.

Druid/Priest pro : more HP, holy radiance/spiritshift

Sounds good !

 

Still I think it would be good if other classes could put an item in their trinket slot other than endgame items.

Edited June 21, 2019 by Elric Galad

[L4wlight]

On 6/18/2019 at 10:10 PM, Exanos said:

Wanted to suggest a little variation for a similar Magran's battle priest trinket :

Contained spells:

    1. Inspired Flame (Lesser Burst of Summer Flame, less base dmg: 14-22, keywords: Fire, Punishment)
    2. Spiritual Weapon Greatsword (burning lash scales up with Aggressive/Clever and down with Passionate/Diplomatic dispositions; model: Firebrand)    
    3. Spiritual Weapon Arquebus (burning lash scales up with Aggressive/Clever and down with Passionate/Diplomatic dispositions; model: Arquebus_Superb)
    4. Combusting wound (or Flame shield)
    5. Aefyllath ues mith fyr
    6. Sunlance
    7. Zahndethus’ Draconic Fury
    8. FireStag
    9. -

Additional effects:
    • Magran‘s blessing : +2 burn AR / -4 freeze AR

Sure... *rolleyes*

[Boeroer]

5 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Still I think it would be good if other classes could put an item in their trinket slot other than endgame items.

That would be my next approach if the others agree: I would like to create trinkets for all other classes that are not swappable (I think... maybe that changes) that alter certain core abilites of the classes.

A bit like adding new subclasses, but more subtle and "equippable". I already gave an example for Fighters: Constant Recovery could heal in an aura (allies) but not the fighter (for creating a support fighter). Ciphers could have their buffs (Pain Block and so on) cast only themselves but not on allies anymore (egoistic cipher), Chanters could get a trinket that makes phrases 12 secs long but get +100% AoE, Rangers could suffer -20 ACC but their Animal Companion gains a high amount of base damage and maybe AR (focusing the build on the AC) and so on and so forth.
Not too many for each class, maybe 2 or three. THey wouldn't add the power of the class but rather change some mechanics so that if plays differently but also insterestingly and opens up new build options).

If people like that idea of course. But it's just too much work to come up and implement  10+ trinkets for every class and let them add new abilites per PL and stuff. That would take ages and the game already is quite old by now.

[L4wlight]

20 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Ciphers could have their buffs (Pain Block and so on) cast only themselves but not on allies anymore (egoistic cipher)

The Cipher could just switch the trinket back and forth, couldn't he? What's your plan to prevent that?

[Boeroer]

I wrote "not swappable" in my post.

Like trinkets currently are basically. That means not switchable/swappable during combat. 

[L4wlight]

Ah, okay then. Must've been selective perception on my part, I guess... 

[Heukalyptus]

Is there a need for the Priest/Druid trinkets to contain a skill per powerLvL ? If a trinket gives 9 skills, maybe it doens't need a bonus as well, and if a trinket only gives acces to a few select skills, it could have a stronger bonus to those select skills to 'compensate'. Or a combinaison of a bonus and a malus, to spice things up !

It would be then much easier to design thematicly strong trinket, and it doesn't require @Boeroer to "copy-paste-but-change-the-name-and-cost" skills for others classes (which is very fun and exciting to read about (love your Amber Star trinket) but sounds very time consuming), like from the top of my head, you could have :

• a Druid trinket that gives you all three Conjure Blight skills (lesser at PL2, normal at PL4 and greater at PL6), and if you want a cool bonus with that trinket, maybe attach to it the Animal Grief buff/debuff to it (the Druid get buffs/debuffs if they have a Blight summoned or not)
• a Druid trinket with 3-5 Decay skills, but restrict the access to Plant skills, or maybe the Decay skills are accelerated (less ticks, more dmg per tick), or just a + Decay PL
• a Druid trinket with a few elementals skills, that encourages you to cycle between the elements by giving you a (de)buff that reduces the dmg dealt by skills doing the same dmg type as your previous skill, but more dmg to other elemental dmg type
• a Druid trinket that gives Ground keyword skills, with a Ground PL, or making them foe only
• a Priest trinket with all Seals skills, and with a + Condemnation PL
• @Boeroer 's book of Prayer, with the two Prayers and the two Lituanies, and you could make them AoE but shorter duration, or a simple + Inspiration PL
• maybe a cheat-death trinket, wih Watchful Presence, Barring Death's Door and Resurrection, but the Priest get a penality from Berath themselves (maybe a Symbol-of-Berath-light, some corrode dmg and Weakened on the Priest ?

Even if we don't want to go to this 'cool side effects' road since (if I understand correctly) the priority is to give casters more versatility first and foremost, I don't think there's a need to have 9 skills on every trinkets. 

And then we can think about other classes (and those one wouldn't be swapable in combat) :

• like a Chipher trinket that gives some Echo skills, but make Echo skills self-only
• one with Shred skills, and it increase Shred dmg, but the Cipher take a % of the dmg dealt back to them
• a trinket that gives Whispers of Treason, Puppet Master and Ringleader, but the Cipher get a stackable debuff for each enemy under their control
• a selfish Paladin that makes their aura stronger, but only for them
• or a support Paladin trinket, making Sworn Enemy castable only on ally, giving them a buff to dmg and acc
• a Chanter trinket that gives bounce skills (Her Revenge Swept, ...And Evil Turned, Eld Nary's Curse) EVEN MORE bounces, but with a accuracy penality
• a Ranger that get -X Acc against unmarked target, but their Mark increase the Accuracy of the entire team against that target

Edited June 22, 2019 by Heukalyptus

[ocelotter]

On 6/21/2019 at 3:41 AM, Boeroer said:

Again: trinkets (as I/we want to do them) are not about power or buffing but about enhanced versatility when it comes to spell choice. Just because a class has more spells to choose from doesn't necessarily mean they are more powerful (in an ideal system where all spells are equally useful). Priests have less spell choice than Druids have less spell choice than Wizards. Per se - without grimoires. That means that wizards already are a lot more versatile when it comes to possible/feasible/fun to play build options. This has nothing to do with their level of power - but all with the spell choice. IN that regard, Druids are better than Priests (more spells to choose from) but worse than Wizards. And then Wizards get a huge, huge amount of additonal spell choice via grimoires on top.

Thus it's no sursprise that the biggest complaint about Priests (that was voiced very early - even during beta and right after release) is that they feel so "railroaded" when it comes to spell choice at level up. Not only do priests choose from the most restricted spell pool - but also it is the spell pool with the biggest proportion of rather circumstancial spells, some of them even a bit redundant (Blessing vs. Dire Blessing for example).  An early suggestion (see @Gromnir's early posts about that but also mine and others'), after the horrible restrictions of the first iteration of Priest subclasses were lifted (restricted access to spells because of subclass choice) was to give Priests trinkets that add spells (not as spell uses but as spell choices) just like grimoires do.

[...]

Because of that I (and others) argue that Priests need trinkets that widen their spell choice a bit. Same with Druids, but to a lesser extend. Druids have some really nice items and subclasses that boost certain keywords (elemental in general, shock, storms, beast, plant, rejuvenation) but none for decay for example. Thus the first impulse is to build an Ancient (Beast/Plant), Fury (all elemental+storms) or Livegiver (Rejuvenation). Few people would pick an Animist who specializes on decay spells (if it's about power) because it's inferior. So in order to open up that direction I would add a trinket with a few decay spells and a PL bonus to decay. This wouldn't make a decay druid more powerful than a beast druid. So no power creep. It would him make a bit more powerful than before, sure. But he wasn't on par in the first place. 

I'm not sure this is the right approach for increasing build diversity. If you create trinkets that provide a lot of the situational spells, then isn't there even less reason to choose them at level-up than without the trinkets? In my opinion, the better solution is to increase the applicability of the situational spells, or buff redundant (e.g. Blessing/Dire Blessing) or underpowered spells.

Let's take your example of the decay Druid. It sounds like it would be nice for people to be able to choose decay spells at level-up and feel like they made a good decision. Creating a decay trinket that hosts a variety of those spells feels bad unless you are specifically metagaming towards it: suddenly you've found a trinket that replaces all the spells you already wanted to pick! If the trinkets are intended to be frequently swapped, wouldn't it be better if the decay spells were the ones chosen by the decay Druid, not put on the trinket? In this case, I would argue that the solution is to provide the support for those spells that you deem to be lacking; a subclass with a bonus for decay spells and some itemization to boost their power level. Not a trinket that supplants the build and even further reduces the incentive to choose those spells.

Edited June 22, 2019 by ocelotter

[Boeroer]

I understand what you mean, but It doesn't really matter if you get access to a spell via trinket or via level up - as long as you are able to cast it. Also, if you are only getting 1 per PL via trinket there usually is something else on that power level that fits and you can pick at level up - because the auto-spell you get at PL will not fit most likely. 

Even if you'd give players all the "good" spells via a trinket (the ones which they would normally pick at level up because they are best) this doesn't automatically lead to them picking prayer spells (except if there's nothing else to pick I guess). Most people will still go is on the most useful spells - just in case. 

Then also it makes little sense to provide a trinket that is not consistent with its theme. Like giving a PL bonus to decay spells but adding only non-decay spells with it.

We don't want to mod subclasses into the game but trinkets which broaden the active spell portfolio of a priest (and druid). Because that's the need. Subclasses are plenty.

We can do that via spells that get added by trinkets that work as Grimoires (light).

At the same time we want to make those trinkets interesting and allow (even encourage) some different build directions. The decay druid was just an example. But this is only the secondary effect. The main objective is to remove the level-up "railroading".

Those trinkets I posted are only suggestions which the community can vote on. This means I will also present some weird or special variants. And also very plain ones. 

It's brainstorming basically, but feedback on the trinkets, on their mechanics and community members' own ideas are highly appreciated.

What I won't do is throw over the whole concept and start anew with something different like subclasses. The game doesn't need more subclasses. I mean it's nice to have more, but it's not really a pressing concern. 

Additional trinkets for other non-caster classes that might feel like an equippable different subclass mechanic is just an idea for the future and not set in stone. Not to be confused with priest trinkets.

[Elric Galad]

After your Community Patch, there are only a couple of subclasses that I still feel unbalanced or unattractive (and that are considered as such by the community, as far as I know). Once again, you've done a great job.

 

I would like to submit a proposal of changes about them.

I don't want to be "that guy" who comes after all the job has been done and says "hey, I have some ideas" but...

Well, I'm a bit him actually, so sorry for that

 

I) Subclasses requiring a buff/change :

 

1) Transmuter : 

 

I think Specialist wizard are mostly OK now. Even if they are not as great as Evoker, there PL bonus is good enough to build around and their bonus abilities are usually at least nice.
Except Form of the Fearsome Brute, and its infamous amor with +100% recovery time. I am not sure how much its stats should be modded, but I suppose something close to Spirit**** (without Wilstrikes) should be OK.

 

2) Corpse Eater :

 

The penalty for Corpse Eater is HUGE and his ability... well not very convenient.

There is another thing I don't like with Corpse Eater : he is strictly Worse than Standard Barbarian when not facing Kiths, Wilder or Beasts, or against small group of foes.

My proposal would be to buff Corpse Eater special food (which is already quite good, but arguably not as good as best food such as Captain Banquet).

I think Forbidden Pie should be better than top food by a small but significant margin so Corpse Eaters under its effect would have a systematic edge over Barbarian with best food.

Forbidden Pie might provide +5/+6 Corpse eater PL and minor effects (so that other classes won't benefit much for it). +5PL sounds huge but I don't think that Barbarian abilities benefit that much from PL. It sounds powerful with Heart of Fury, but not that much for Frenzy (which 2 Rage for Corpse Eater). It is also good with Carnage though. It also has to be compared with what top tier food provides (PR, Action Speed, Immunities).

However, Forbidden Pie is rather cheap, so maybe the best solution would be to create a new supreme receipe for Corpse Eaters ?

Other Corpse Eater consumables should also be scaled accordingly.

 

3) Mage Slayer :

 

IMHO, Mage Slayer has major 2 flaws :

- Strictly worse than Barbarian against non-spellcasters

- Unreliable for emergency healing due to Potion Ban AND Beneficial Spell resistance. When Mage Slayer is on the brink of death, only Lay on Hands and Athletic can save it reliably. I feel this is too harsh and I don't like the randomness of it (and I don't think I am the only one).

My proposal would be to :

- remove Spell Resistance entirely

- Add a passive -25% Beneficial/Hostile effects duration instead.

That would fix the 2 issues above without changing too much the theme of the subclass.

 

4) Sharpshooter :

 

I've always found him a bit bland. The penalty is severe and the advantages minimal.

Still +1 PR or Hit to Crit can be convenient so the subclass is not entirely bad, but I can't prevent myself from thinking he is a bit meh.

I think that a +20% Range with ranged weapons (similar to Gunhawk trait for guns) would be very nice. It would fit the theme of the class and provide a tangible benefit without making the subclass much stronger.

 

 

II) Subclasses that may require a nerf :  

 

I don't know how you feel about nerfs, but I can't prevent myself from thinking that the game would feel a bit more "Polished" with it.

 

1) Troubadour :

 

It has been said for long that Troubadour is better at everything than base chanter, and arguably better than other subclasses at their specialty.

Increasing the Troubadour penalty to +2 Phrases per invocation would make them a bit less OP IMHO.

A Troubadour using Brisk Recitation would still be able to cast even 3 base Phrases Invocation faster (3+2 x 3 = 15s vs 3 x 6 = 18s), but the gap would be thiner.

 

2) Trickster :

 

Trickster suffers a very minor Penalty and get 7-9 abilities for free, which makes base Rogue obsolete.

I would simply revert its Sneak Attack to what is used to be. Trickster has now much more options than what it had in v1.0 and its ability costs have also been reduced. -20% penalty to sneak attack isn't that huge when the versatility that this sublclass brings is considered. 

 

3) Streetfighter :

 

Streetfighter is not OP by itself, but we all know how stupid he is with blunderbuss modal.

Yes, it is fun, but it kind of betrays the original spirit of the subclass and turns it into pure powergaming.

I think the Blunderbuss modal should be changed to -10 Accuracy/-10 Deflection/-10 Deflection. There would be other ways to activate Streefighter, but that would require a bit more work that simply actvating a modal.

[Boeroer]

@Elric Galad:

Buffs:
1) Transmuter: agree (partly). The Form of the Fearsome Brute is not worth a spell cast. However, the armor is there to slow his fist attacks down. They have very high base damage and normal melee speed. Without any recovery penalty (like Spiritshift armor) they would be too good I think. But on the other hand: the current +100% is way too slow. One could tinker around with the recovery penalty and see when it feels "correct". This would be an easy fix I think.

I would also argue that Conjurers don't profit a lot from their sublcass bonuses. Summoned Weapons and summoned creatures scale with char level, "only" the duration gets increased by PL. Maybe some feature like auto-fast-summoning (stacks with the passive ability) or "all summons get +1 lvl scaling" or something would be nice.

2) Corpse Eater: I agree that the penalty is too strong. The food is nice, but instead of giving a huge PL bonus for barb-only I would just make the food give universal PL boni. That would be more appealing for multiclassing as well. Maybe I'd also make Flesh Communion faster.

I have the same problem (increase of resource cost too strong of a penalty) with Sisters of the Reapng Moon (Xoti Monk subclass). While +1 resource cost per ability doesn't sound like much it simply doubles the costs of the abilites you use most. The granularity of resource pools isn't fine enough. +1 Would be ok it let's say the cheapest ability would cost 4 points instead of 3 points (and the pool was bigger). But +1 for an ability that costs 1 - not balanced. 

The counterargument is that you can gain back resources (kill enemy - Xoti, eat enemy - Corpse Eater) but both are too weak if you play with a party. 

On the other hand it's difficult to change that part of the equation, so may just the upsides have to be a bit better.

What I don't agree with is that it's a problem if the Coprse Eater is strictly worse against certain foes (non kith/wilder/beast). Because on the other hand he can be way better agaonst those - so... balanced in general? All the subclasses have pros and cons - basically.

3) Mage Slayer: same here - no problem if the Mage Slayer is worse against non-spellcasters than a vanilla Barb. On the other hand he is a lot better against spellcasters. It just has to be so that this advantage is good enough to balance out the downsides over the course of the game. I would simply give him spell disruption with Carnage as well. Not only on initial targets. He can heal himself with Savage Defiance/Stalwart Defiance pretty well.  

4) Sharpshooter: +1 PEN is nothing to sneeze at. Once you are in danger of underpenetration the attack speed malus isn't that big of a deal. But it's obviously more important at higher difficulty settings. The crit conversion is meh though - especially for the long range targets. I would have liked a general +1 PEN better than this >4m-stuff. Higher range is a nice idea. 

Nerfs:

1) Troubadour: totally needs nerf. Don't know though if +2 phrase cost is the way to go though. Because this will also raise your max phrase count - which is an advantage over chanters who can't do that. Maybe change Brisk Recitation so that it does 4 sec phrases with 0 linger instead of 3 sec phrases?

2) Trickster: agreed. The penalty is way too soft for all the advantages the Trickster gets.

3) Streetfighter: agreed. Blunderbuss Streetfighter is boring. The "nerf" should be on Powder Burns as you suggest. Instead of applying flanked via affliction it could apply a flat (less severe) malus that stacks with afflictions and does not get removed by inspirations or resistances. Like -10 Accuracy and that's it. Distracted itself causes -5 ACC, -10 Reflex (via -5 PER) and -10 Deflection, -1 AR (via Flanked). It's more severe but can't be stacked with other PER afflictions while a flat -10 ACC could. Blunderbusses already have lower ACC so the -10 ACC would hurt enough I guess.

 

Edited June 24, 2019 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

I made three more trinkets:

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Cogwheel

Appearance: a small cogwheel that fits in the palm of you hand

Why: more spell variety, playing a Priest of Abydon "light" (for example a Preist of Magran with sympathies for Abydon).

Description: Maybe this small cogwheel was once part of a marvelous machine, maybe it just was used as a pendant. It seems to be made from hardened steel and has seen some use: its surface is scrachted and a bit oily as well.  

Contained spells:
    1. Holy Power
    2. Spiritual Weapon Hammer (two handed war hammer, model: ogre_pirate_hammer, downscaled, crushing lash, scales up with stoic and honest, scales down with deceptive and clever)
        ◦ or one handed war hammer, model: war_hammer_u_resounding_call
    3. Desponent Blows
    4. Ballista (Mind Lance, keywords: punishment)
    5. Champion‘s Boon
    6. Burst of Sparks (Firebug, keywords: fire, punishment)
    7. Abydon‘s Forge (like Concelhaut‘s Crushing Doom, keywords: punishment, condemnation)
    8. Spark the Souls of the Righteous
    9. Call the Iron Arm (summon Steelclad Construct - cre_construct_steelclad)

Effects:
    • none

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Conch Pendant

Appearance: a small-sized conch attached to a silver necklace.

Why: bigger spell variety, playing a Priest of Ondra "light" (e.g. a Priest of Woedica with sympathies for Ondra/Ngati). 

Description: This conch was polished to a glossy finish. Althoug it‘s quite small you can hear mighty waves roaring inside of it – if you hold it really close to your ear. 

Contained spells:
    1. Suppress Affliction
    2. The Moon‘s Light (keywords: restoration)
    3. Watchful Presence
    4. High Tide (Overwhelming Wave, keywords: punishment, condemnation)
    5. Low Tide (Call to Slumber, keywords: condemnation)
    6. Minor Intercession
    7. Moonwell (PL 7, keywords: restoration, protection)
    8. Ngati‘s Vortex (PL 8, Pull of Eora, but 15-25 crush dmg per 3 sec, keywords: punishment, condemnation)
    9. Drowning (PL 9, like Temporal Cocoon, but 3 raw dmg per 1 sec, keywords: punishment, condemnation)

Effects:
    • none

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Chew Bone

Appearance: a medium sized chew bons for a dog

Why: bigger spell variety, playing a priest of Galawain "light" (e.g. a Priest of Wael/Druid with sympathies for Galawain).

Description: This chew bone looks like it has been used recently. There‘s saliva all over it and it smells like a rained upon dog. 

Contained spells:
    1. Holy Power
    2. Taste of the Hunt (PL2, like druid spell)
    3. Merciless Pursuit (PL 3, like Merciless Gaze)
    4. Divine Terror
    5. Champion‘s Boon
    6. Call the Changeling (like Spiritual Ally, but summon model cre_spiritshift_wolf)
    7. Minor Avatar
    8. Lord of the Hunt (PL 8, like Citzal‘s Martial Power, but upgrades MIG, CON and DEX inspiration by one level, keywords: inspiration)
    9. Aspect of Galawain (like druid spell, keywords: protection)

Effects:
    • none

[Powerotti]

On 6/12/2019 at 7:02 PM, MaxQuest said:

You and dunehunter both made valid points.

I have mentioned 3 attacks, as arbitrary value to start the theorycrafting going. The initial reasoning was: Tempest provides 10% chance to skip next recovery. Blade Cascade has 5% chance, and since it is less reliable (cose it's lower) it could provide a triple benefit compared to Tempest proc, hence three skipped recoveries.

But you've mentioned the fun-factor, and dunehunter that nobody picks Tempest. 

So I guess a compromise would be 5 attacks limit (in addition to 5s time limit)?

 

 

I think restraining it to small, fixed number of attacks would, very likely, change scordeo from something, that you can plan build around, to rarely used toy. Is it possible to exclude some skill (like blade turning and blade cascade) from SoT and wall of draining? Making it duration extendable only by int and items?  It's fun, when used in totally-no-exploit-way of some builds, especially devoted/monk (shatered pillar with no wounds penalty?) with max int, high crit chance from discipline strikes and one handed style, flurry strikes and heartbeat drumming, and ooblit pet . Also blade cascade could work only if scordeo is in active weapon slot or only with that specific weapon, to prevent no recovery bleeding cuts.

As for tempest upgrade usfulness, its better to buff it a little, instead of nerfing cascade so hard. Slightly higher chance to proc or raised amount of attacks to fixed three, would balance it.

[Elric Galad]

I have just realized Balance Nerfs are great with this community patch because specific changes can be removed as described in the Community Patch description.

Feel free to nerf everything then