Feature Request: Choose Subclasses for Companions

[bell88]

I'm not sure where the appropriate place to submit feature requests is. With the code apparently freezing sometime in February in anticipation of the console release, I thought it would be good to request this again. Given how many great subclasses exist, its a great shame that you can only experience them through your main character and hired adventurers. It would be nice if we could choose subclasses for the story companions and sidekicks (specifically those that don't have exclusive unique ones) when they are recruited.

 

I am aware that it is possible to do this through console commands/mods, but it feels like it should simply be added as a core feature. It also doesn't feel like it would be massive amounts of work to implement and would be an overall easy win. Its likely that many people only play the game once and likely with the story companions - this feature would allow those people to see some of the huge variety of subclasses in the game.

[Nssheepster]

This'd be nice, if only to get rid of Wild Mind on Serafen. I've never experienced him as a Cipher... And I never will if that doesn't go. Random good is fine. Random bad isn't, I'll just hire an Orlan cipher and name them Serafen.

[Frog Man]

Agreed OP. This could be a great feature for Beraths blessings, given that they are in place as replayability encouragement.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Yeah, right now it's possible with the tilde key console or mods but I'm not sure how much of an option those will be on console.

[bell88]

Cheers, I'm glad other people feel the same way about this. It would be good to get some more momentum in this thread to increase the chance that the dev team actually see it. In terms of new features to add for the console release - this feels like a very good and tangible one. Does anyone know if there is an 'official' way to submit feature requests - or do we just post here and hope for the best?

[Saito Hikari]

While we're on the topic of Breath's Blessings, I think this should additionally include adding the companion subclasses to the character creation screen for the Watcher to access as well.

 

Consider how Tekehu's subclass disables friendly fire for Water spells. I imagine it'd work if you multiclass for Wizard spells too.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Saito Hikari

[Manveru123]

I'm pretty sure the subclasses for companions and sidekicks were chosen with their Lore in mind. If you take that away from them, you take away their personality. I mean imagine if you could change Pallegina's or Xoti's subclass, that would be horrible from the story PoV.

[bell88]

I agree with Manveru, I don't think the Watcher should have access to subclasses such as Watershaper or Harvester of Gaun. Aside from the fact that I think it's interesting design when companions have unique things that you can't access - it would be very jarring storywise. 

 

My view is simply that we should be able to choose subclasses for companions when we meet them and when they do not already have a unique one for story reasons (e.g. Xoti, Tekehu etc).

 

This would be the most simple implementation. A more complex implementation Obsidian could consider would be to only allow selection of 'lore appropriate' subclasses for companions. For example it would be a little ridiculous for Vatnir to take a Debonaire subclass to his rogue, yet Trickster would fit well.

[Nssheepster]

I can understand making companions choose a lore subclass, IF they have one, OR no subclass. It'd be nice to have the option to NO subclass even with those lore companions... Because of Serafen, mostly. On the other hand, if a companion doesn't have a lore specific subclass for all its options, it'd be nice to add that. Would it really break lore if Pallegina was Darcozzi Paladin/ Bellower Chanter? No, but it's not an option.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

I'm pretty sure the subclasses for companions and sidekicks were chosen with their Lore in mind. If you take that away from them, you take away their personality. I mean imagine if you could change Pallegina's or Xoti's subclass, that would be horrible from the story PoV.

 

Yeah, but there's lots of flexibility there too depending on narrative. Even for the folks coming over from PoE 1, Eder and Aloth have had five years to pick up some new tricks.

 

For me it's just that I don't like using hired adventurers because you miss the conversation interaction barks. In my current run I have Eder set to Unbroken / Trickster and Aloth set to Steel Garrotte / Blood Mage, mostly just because I wanted to try out those combos. It adds a lot to the replayability.

[Nights86]

This is the type of feature that belongs in a mod but not in the game, for lore reasons.

[Boeroer]

With the Unity console mod you can change subclasses for everybody without loosing achievements or anything.

 

I generally agree that the subclasses were chosen with the charater in mind. But while in some cases they are obvious (Pallegina, Tekehu...) others are not (Aloth, Edér...). For example it wouldn't really collide with anything if Edér was a Streetfighter instead of a normal Rogue or Aloth was an Evoker etc.

 

On the other hand, some subclasses just don't fit: Assassin or Trickster for Edér? Nahhh...

Edited February 5, 2019 by Boeroer

[Lamppost in Winter]

I actually doubt the significant reason for this lack of feature is for character's sake. The original multiclassing design would've allowed you to make, say, Aloth, a Level 1 Wizard and a Level 19 Barbarian if you wanted, on which Josh Sawyer simply said it was up to the player whether they wanted to build companions in some wacky out-of-character way.

 

Since you have to choose what classes a companion is when they join, I suspect giving any more options would've been overwhelming for new players.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

With the Unity console mod you can change subclasses for everybody without loosing achievements or anything.

 

I generally agree that the subclasses were chosen with the charater in mind. But while some cases they are obvious (Pallegina, Tekehu...) others are not (Aloth, Edér...). For example it doesn't really collide with anything if Edér was a Streetfighter instead of a normal Rogue or Aloth was an Evoker etc.

 

On the other hand, some subclasses just don't fit: Assassin or Trickster for Edér? Nahhh...

 

 

My Trickster Edér decided to go in big on practical jokes.

[bell88]

This is the type of feature that belongs in a mod but not in the game, for lore reasons.

I don't agree with this - as others have pointed out there are many choices of subclass that are not at all lore breaking. We all agree changing Xoti's priest subclass or Tekehu's watershaper subclass would be completely inappropriate. On the other hard as Boeroer points out, allowing Eder to be a Streetfighter or Aloth to be an evoker/bloodmage is completely consistent lore-wise and just vastly increases player options, depth and replayability. Provided it's not masses of extra work, I see no reason not to do it and I think it would be a great addition to the game. Also remember modding won't at all be an option on the consoles (particularly Switch) so that shouldn't be regarded as a reason not to do it. Ultimately if its simply too much work, that's a different story. 

[bell88]

To summarise what we've said before - the low cost version of this feature is simply:

 

- Allow the player to choose ANY subclass for a companion on recruitment provided that they don't already have one. If they on the other hand already have a subclass then assume for simplicity that it's locked in for story reasons and therefore the player doesn't get to alter it. As Josh says, its somewhat up to the player then to build wacky out of character options like Trickster Eders or Debonaire Vatnirs that aren't banned by this approach. This is fine in my opinion.

 

- The higher cost implementation would be to refine the above to mitigate the out of character options if the dev team deem them too inappropriate. Ultimately though by preventing the user from altering a companion's subclass if they already have one in the base game you already essentially prevent all the lore-breaking options. To some degree, everything else will just be a matter of debate. 

 

Anyway, I'd love to see option (1) in the game. I think it would be a net positive for everyone, with (I think) no downsides. It also makes using the companions more appealing over adventurers which I consider a good thing as well.

Edited February 5, 2019 by bell88

[Boeroer]

It might not be a ton of work - but it's already doable with several mods - and it's easy to do as well.

 

Because of that this is not high on the priority list. I believe if Obsidian had no other things to do they would be happy to include this option (and several others).

[thelee]

Trickster Eders or Debonaire Vatnirs

A Corpse-Eater Rekke is perfectly in line with his character. I mean, he had to survive on that flotsam somehow, right?

and in FS he talks about another companion on that raft. False memory? Or REPRESSED memory????

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by thelee

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

This'd be nice, if only to get rid of Wild Mind on Serafen. I've never experienced him as a Cipher... And I never will if that doesn't go. Random good is fine. Random bad isn't, I'll just hire an Orlan cipher and name them Serafen.

 

+1 to this.

 

at the very least, it would be nice if serafens wild magic was a toggle so peeps could choose whether or not to live dangerously. otherwise ydwins the only option for more challenging fights. dont get me wrong, debonair, vampiric elf bois are totally my jam - like 100% my jam - but serafens a bro and id like more reason to use him.

[Frog Man]

With the Unity console mod you can change subclasses for everybody without loosing achievements or anything.

 

I generally agree that the subclasses were chosen with the charater in mind. But while in some cases they are obvious (Pallegina, Tekehu...) others are not (Aloth, Edér...). For example it wouldn't really collide with anything if Edér was a Streetfighter instead of a normal Rogue or Aloth was an Evoker etc.

 

On the other hand, some subclasses just don't fit: Assassin or Trickster for Edér? Nahhh...

I could not get this thing to work for me! Shame because I’d really like to. Anyone have a helpful guide on how to use?

[Ophiuchus]

 

With the Unity console mod you can change subclasses for everybody without loosing achievements or anything.

 

I generally agree that the subclasses were chosen with the charater in mind. But while in some cases they are obvious (Pallegina, Tekehu...) others are not (Aloth, Edér...). For example it wouldn't really collide with anything if Edér was a Streetfighter instead of a normal Rogue or Aloth was an Evoker etc.

 

On the other hand, some subclasses just don't fit: Assassin or Trickster for Edér? Nahhh...

I could not get this thing to work for me! Shame because I’d really like to. Anyone have a helpful guide on how to use?

 

It hasn't been officially updated in a while but there's a fix, which still works with the current version:

 

 

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/7112276-unity-console-for-poe2-30-bugs/

 

Make sure to save before using UC. It's been having issues "storing" progression tables since 4.0. For example, I changed Aloth into a Blood Mage/Sharpshooter and respeced him several levels later. The respec defaulted him to a single class Conjurer with no starting abilities so I had to use UC a second time to fix it.

 

Edit: I should also mention UC can be a resource hog at times. I often disable it by removing the pillars.py file.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Ophiuchus

[gGeorg]

I'm pretty sure the subclasses for companions and sidekicks were chosen with their Lore in mind. If you take that away from them, you take away their personality. I mean imagine if you could change Pallegina's or Xoti's subclass, that would be horrible from the story PoV.

Divinity Original Sin 2, made exactly this horrible mistake. You could play any companion as main character and change it as you like. Or you might recruit it as the actual companion and change as you like. The result is catastrophic, obviously. 

Noon play that, and sales are missing.

LOL.

[Boeroer]

Yeah that's the reason. LOL

[Elric Galad]

In my opinion, Companions should be a trade-off :

You should gain unique features (a bit stronger than normal character) or an unique bonus when completing a quest and loose options.

This is the best way to have companions who feel unique.

Choosing them should have consequences.

 

The best example was PoE1 Pallegina who had unique and strong powers or Zahua who got a Fist bonus after completing his quest.

 

It was true also in BG2 (Viconia's Magic Resistance, Nalia's Ring, Sarevok's Deathblows, Edwin's OPness)

In PoE2, there are a few problems :

1) Many companions don't have unique traits

2) Some unique advantages are meh or... bad (I'm looking at you Serafen)

3) When a companion doesn't have an unique subclasses, he/she gets the base version of the class (except a couple of them such as Konstanten) which is usually worse than most of the subclasses. 

 

In my opinion, the mechanically good companions are :

- Eder (because of Berath's Blessing pet)

- Maia (Gunhawk)

- Tekehau (Watershaper, his Chanter subclass is quite convenient for multiclassing)

- Vatnir (Priest of Rymrgand)

Including any other companion is gimping one's party (the game is balanced enough, so it isn't THAT bad).

Pallegina's five suns overnerf was especially wrong in my opinion.

 

Anyway, a couple more options wouldn't hurt.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Elric Galad

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

ur forgetting one of the biggests outliers, palleginas racial bonus, (resistance to PER/INT afflictions and defence against disengagement) which is worth like 2.5-3 passives.

 

I dont think the companions should be mechanically incentivised too much. Theres already a compelling reason to take them (content/flavour) giving them too many unique strengths would further punish those who like to craft their own parties.