Ansalons Ranged Weapon Tier List

[Boeroer]

I'm using it right now and don't find it overwhelmingly good. Only against lower level vessels Double Tap is really great. But I often do higher level encounters, so even that doesn't help me too often.

 

It has half the reloading time, which is nice but nothing too powerful. At the same time I can't be bothered to plan my rests based on that annoying damage bonus which is rather low per kill. For a solo run this might be nicer. In a party it isn't worth the hassle.

I have Watershaper's Focus + Ondra's Wrath in the party which is used by my Spellblade Aloth - so nothing too fancy - and it does a LOT more damage than the Red Hand. I also have a Nalpasca/Berserker with the Espirs Estoc who triggers Ghost-Blade-Cascades with Torment's Reach and my backstabbing Edér deals tremendous AoE alpha strikes with Oathbreaker's End if he manages to kill a squishy enemy right out of stealth.

Those two also feel more powerful than the single-target Red Hand. Against lower level vessels it's truly awesome though.

 

It's also really nice on an Essential Phantom. Since it doesn't need special abilities to be good it works very well on that summon.

 

What I noticed: the Red Hand works with Cleave although Cleaving Stance clearly says "melee weapon". It that the case with all ranged weapons now or is it just the Red Hand?

Edited August 24, 2018 by Boeroer

[Teclis23]

You dont find the red hand overwhelmingly good?

 

I smell a biased opinion there. Maybe you dont want the devs to read this and nerf it? Or some other reason?

 

It is pretty clear the gun is ridiculous. You spend alot of time discovering rare synergies aswell remember. The average joe playing this game would never come across ways of achieving dps anywhere near as high as this gun. Maybe this is why you find it not so good.

[Manveru123]

I have Watershaper's Focus + Ondra's Wrath in the party which is used by my Spellblade Aloth - so nothing too fancy - and it does a LOT more damage than the Red Hand.

In similar circumstances? By auto-attacking? Or do you have to work for it a bit instead of just right clicking?

[Teclis23]

The WS focus is currently bugged. Read boererers deep leep build and the comments under it.

[Boeroer]

Dude for the third time: it is not bugged! It works as intended but that's just too powerful.

 

The Red Hand on the other hand is bugged.

That the damage bonus works with all weapons and when handig the arquebus around can't be intended. Also the Knockback is bugged.

 

I told you why I think it's not overwhelmingly good. I can't help it if you can't follow.

 

In similar circumstances? By auto-attacking? Or do you have to work for it a bit instead of just right clicking?

Don't know how "you have to work for it" is defined, but Aloth casts Infuse and then fires an Arterial-Strike Blast at the enemies that surround my tank. End of Story. Things that you would do with any ranged AoE attack. No luring or other stuff involved. Still eleminates 50 % of the enemies around the tank right where they stand (the more the better it works).

 

The disadvantage of the Red Hand is that it's restricted to single target damage. Against single enemies it's great, as I already said, but not so ridiculously good that it needs a nerf besides the bugfixig I guess. Maybe a lower base dmasge instead of reduced range would have been better Balance-weise, but I think it's not gamebreaking how it is.

 

Other weapons simply have a bigger impact.

 

Of course if you use a Scout to build around it with Driving Flight/Damage bonuses, reloading bonuses and whatnot it's going to perform a lot better than if a wizard is using it. But that's not the fault of the weapon. All arquebuses (besides Three Bells Through) do that (with twice the reloading time).

Edited August 24, 2018 by Boeroer

[thundercleese]

I also showed you video proof that other weapons (Frostseeker in this example) perform far better on an identical build. The Red Hand even had an advantage in that example in that it a) has the Gunner talent and b) Maia's armour provides 20% reload speed vs Miscreant's 10% recovery.

 

As Boeroer said above and I also said in the other thread; it is a good weapon, especially against vessels and single targets. But in the vast majority of fights any weapon that can do AoE damage is going to vastly outperform it.

Edited August 25, 2018 by thundercleese

[Teclis23]

I had a rogue/ monk set up with dual hand mortars and the redhand blew it away in dps.

 

I dont think the frost bow out dps it by the way either. Maybe on trash mobs it might

[Boeroer]

How one can simply ignore math and video evidence is beyond me. But then: voting for Trump and being anti-vaxxer also is.

So I have to accept that there are people out there who have a totally different perception of (virtual) reality than I have.

 

However - we already went through this twice: with the "rogue vs. druid" and "rogue vs. ranger" debates in the PoE forums long time ago. Where you wouldn't accept that a rogue does not "vastly out-dps" a druid or ranger - despite detailed explanations from mutiple forum members that were based on math, in game data and common sense. So I guess also in this case further arguing is futile. The points were made, people can reread it and decide who backed their claims better.

 

I (and others here) don't think the Red Hand deserves a nerf besides the obvious bugfixes that messes up its dmg bonus and its Knockback. You think it's the best weapon in the game (accompanied by the inevitable hyperbolic adverbs) and therefore needs a nerf. Let's just leave it there...

Edited August 26, 2018 by Boeroer

[mant2si]

How once can simply ignore math and video evidence is beyond me. But then: voting for Trump and being anti-vaxxer also is.

So I have to accept that there are people out there who have a totally different perception of (virtual) reality than I have.

 

However - we already went through this twice: with the "rogue vs. druid" and "rogue vs. ranger" debates in the PoE forums long time ago. Where you wouldn't accept that a rogue does not  "vastly out-dps" a druid or ranger - despite detailed explanations from mutiple forum members that were based on math, in game data and common sense. So I guess also in this case  further arguing is futile. The points were made, people can reread it and decide who backed their claims better.

 

I (and others here) don't think the Red Hand deserves a nerf besides the obvious bugfixes that messes up its dmg bonus and its Knockback. You think it's the best weapon in the game (accompanied by the inevitable hyperbolic adverbs) and therefore needs a nerf. Let's just leave it there...

Math, heartless you bitch :D I missed debates around Red Hand, but I didn't find anything special about this weapon except cool 40% DM bonus for Unbending and BDD builds. Even single handed ranger / x with Scordeo's Trophy will overcome Red Hand DPS far away ;D

[Haplok]

Well, it is really cool for single target damage for classes without Full Attack signature moves (like Cipher). I agree its not broken though.

[Teclis23]

How one can simply ignore math and video evidence is beyond me. But then: voting for Trump and being anti-vaxxer also is.

So I have to accept that there are people out there who have a totally different perception of (virtual) reality than I have.

 

However - we already went through this twice: with the "rogue vs. druid" and "rogue vs. ranger" debates in the PoE forums long time ago. Where you wouldn't accept that a rogue does not "vastly out-dps" a druid or ranger - despite detailed explanations from mutiple forum members that were based on math, in game data and common sense. So I guess also in this case further arguing is futile. The points were made, people can reread it and decide who backed their claims better.

 

I (and others here) don't think the Red Hand deserves a nerf besides the obvious bugfixes that messes up its dmg bonus and its Knockback. You think it's the best weapon in the game (accompanied by the inevitable hyperbolic adverbs) and therefore needs a nerf. Let's just leave it there...

voting for trump and being an anti vaxxer?

 

and i used the redhand and the frosty bow on my last playthrough

 

I kept watching the dps on the records sheet and the redhand was well infront. Like a long way in front. The video he showed me was just on one encounter. Maybe it was beating it because of it extra damage power that you think is bugged, this would add alot of dps over time

Edited August 26, 2018 by Teclis23

[thundercleese]

That was one example yes but it was a good example of a group of enemies with solid defenses. I could redo the test on virtually any flight that isn't either a) single target or b) ghost heavy and get the same results. Will I do it? No. Because it's not worth my time trying to prove to you something that everyone else on these boards already knows.

[Kaylon]

 

How once can simply ignore math and video evidence is beyond me. But then: voting for Trump and being anti-vaxxer also is.

So I have to accept that there are people out there who have a totally different perception of (virtual) reality than I have.

 

However - we already went through this twice: with the "rogue vs. druid" and "rogue vs. ranger" debates in the PoE forums long time ago. Where you wouldn't accept that a rogue does not  "vastly out-dps" a druid or ranger - despite detailed explanations from mutiple forum members that were based on math, in game data and common sense. So I guess also in this case  further arguing is futile. The points were made, people can reread it and decide who backed their claims better.

 

I (and others here) don't think the Red Hand deserves a nerf besides the obvious bugfixes that messes up its dmg bonus and its Knockback. You think it's the best weapon in the game (accompanied by the inevitable hyperbolic adverbs) and therefore needs a nerf. Let's just leave it there...

Math, heartless you bitch :D I missed debates around Red Hand, but I didn't find anything special about this weapon except cool 40% DM bonus for Unbending and BDD builds. Even single handed ranger / x with Scordeo's Trophy will overcome Red Hand DPS far away ;D

 

FYI Red Hand>>Thundercrack>Scordeo's Trophy>Eccea's Arcane Blaster even without the 40% dmg buff (without mentioning the Red Hand has better penetration/accuracy). The only weapon close to Red Hand's dps is Aamiina's Legacy. While Aamiina's Legacy has lower penetration, it has better range and you can recover while moving (you can't reload while moving) making it the ultimate kiting weapon for a solo character.

[Lampros]

For early game (say, level 7-12?), what do you guys think is better - Frostseeker or Essence Interrupter?

[mant2si]

For early game (say, level 7-12?), what do you guys think is better - Frostseeker or Essence Interrupter?

Depend on build, if your build has 15+ acc bonus, then pick Essence Interrupter with Modal otherwise Frostseeker

[Lampros]

 

For early game (say, level 7-12?), what do you guys think is better - Frostseeker or Essence Interrupter?

Depend on build, if your build has 15+ acc bonus, then pick Essence Interrupter with Modal otherwise Frostseeker

 

 

Holy crap - I never even checked Hunting Bow modal. My God! Thanks!

[Lampros]

Watershaper's Focus does two attacks with one shot (kind of Red Hand which does two shots with 0 recovery in between). Since the jump also works with Blast this weapon already does more dps than the Red Hand once used on mobs. Ondra's Wrath (which triggers often enough on groups of enemies without Driving Flight because of double Blast) is just a great bonus on top.

 

Essence Interruptor is obviously one of the most powerful weapons in the game. I mean if you don't judge power solely on dps. Marking all foes which then can be killed by anybody and turn them into friendly creatures makes most fights with adds trivial. Summons are very powerful: destraction, decoy, a bit of damage, body-blocking. They are like a long lasting hard CC effect. Especially if there is not limit on the number of summons.

 

Putting EI in a lower tier than Red Hand which can't do more than just killing single targets is not objective when you really want to judge power and usefulness and not simply make a "dps tier" list.

 

And also here the core of the problem is: you didn't really use it - so the "real" usefulness evades you. Descriptions only can tell you so much about a weapon. You have to use it to be able to judge it objectively. Or discuss/read about such things and update your list accordingly.

 

I am going to run two ranged together and compare Essence Interrupter/Aamina's Legacy build v. Red Hand build eventually!

[Lampros]

I posted this elsewhere, but I am copy-pasting here as well, because it's a point of contention in this thread:

 

"In my experience in terms of testing Red Hand Ranger/Rogue character versus Aanima's Legacy Ranger/Devoted character through an entire PotD run, the Aamina's Legacy character did about 15 percent more consistently.

 

I think there were several factors that led to this result...:

 

1. I had +2 penetration from Devoted and +2 penetration from food - which significantly boosted the only weakness that plagued Aamina's Legacy.

 

2. Priest and Chanter buffs probably helped Aamina's Legacy more in the aggregate. In particular, I am certain that the fire lash chant helped Aamina's Legacy a lot more, because any lashes will help the weapon that fires more often ceteris paribus.

 

3. The extra range of Aamina's Legacy clearly helped in many cases. I noticed that the Aamina's Legacy user could literally sit still at the same spot and not move at all throughout the entire fight in most fights. In contrast, the shorter range of Red Hand meant that its user had to re-position quite often to get in range. It's obvious but a seemingly neglected point in this forum that range matters in firefights."

Edited October 10, 2018 by Lampros

[Lampros]

I would bump Hand Mortar (A) and Fire in the Hole(S) into the list as only AoE Ranged Weapons that also apply on-hit effects.

 

I dare you to try present me with the class that can dish out more damage per second than Streetfighter+Blunderbuss Modal+20int+<any other class> with one or both of the above

 

#The Howitzer

 

#The Holy Hand Grenadier

 

Can't a Ranger/Rogue ultimately do more due to Driving Flight?

[Lampros]

I happen to be running a party with two rangers (I know I know, but you gotta make the game challenging somehow right?), one with Essence Interrupter and one with Red Hand.

 

The essence interrupter ranger does about 1.25x the damage of the Red Hand ranger. The Red Hand ranger is also a geomancer and thus has access to buffs the Beastmaster EI ranger does not, although this is probably canceled out by the fact that the Beastmaster is using miscreants leather.

 

I really don't think you should be making these lists if you arent willing to do such direct comparisons before putting a single weapon alone in "God Tier."

 

Yes, it seems that in a practical group setting, Aamina's Legacy does more DPS than Red Hand. See my results above.

[Prince of Lies]

 

I would bump Hand Mortar (A) and Fire in the Hole(S) into the list as only AoE Ranged Weapons that also apply on-hit effects.

 

I dare you to try present me with the class that can dish out more damage per second than Streetfighter+Blunderbuss Modal+20int+<any other class> with one or both of the above

 

#The Howitzer

 

#The Holy Hand Grenadier

 

Can't a Ranger/Rogue ultimately do more due to Driving Flight?

 

 

If that rogue is a Streetfighter with a blunderbuss

 

Powder Burns has an AOE in a radius which can hit more enemies than Driving Flight (IIRC, it bounces once)

 

Ranger/Streetfighter each projectile would bounce and you would have AOE through Powder Burns.

 

Not sure how that compares to Devoted, which I believe would crit less, but for more damage.

[Boeroer]

I just tried Dragon's Dowry with Heart Seeker: I think that's the best weapon to use that ability with. The 30% burning lash works with the "line" AoE and works beautifully with the +100% dmg bonus and the high base dmg. Without any other buff I did over 100 dmg to all dummies in a loooong line. If you like to kite your enemies into a line I think this is a pretty awesome ability/weapon combo - although very circumstancial/niche.

 

Hand mortar's AoE doesn't work with Heart Seeker by the way and low base dmg weapons are just wasted Bond with Heart Seeker. 

[Haplok]

 

I would bump Hand Mortar (A) and Fire in the Hole(S) into the list as only AoE Ranged Weapons that also apply on-hit effects.

 

I dare you to try present me with the class that can dish out more damage per second than Streetfighter+Blunderbuss Modal+20int+<any other class> with one or both of the above

 

#The Howitzer

 

#The Holy Hand Grenadier

 

Can't a Ranger/Rogue ultimately do more due to Driving Flight?

 

 

Well, Sharpshooter/Streetfighter with dual mortars or dual regular BB (for single targets) is my favorite (short) ranged character.

That's A LOT of 'splosions.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Haplok

[Lampros]

Does it have to be those two particular blunderbusses of Serafen? I won't get the reward one, since I don't play with story companions.

[Haplok]

You can use different ones and trigger Powder Burns / Streetfighter bonuses. But only those 2 have the aoe effect, dual damage type and Reflex save instead of Deflection. And only the quest one can be upgraded with extra bounce.

 

In case you're open to that, you can get the second one rather fast, even without any fighting (well, when you're leaving the final quest location, a combat is likely). Just go to Deadlight tavern rooms with Serafen, then to the Bathhouse then to Sayuka harbor. Bam! Quest completed.