Gromnir

over christmas we got stuck in a car with somebody who were a fan o' taylor swift or katy perry (sp?) or who-the-F-knows. regardless, we had to endure 40 minutes o' musical oatmeal. no doubt such fare is easily consumed, but it is bland and soul-killing when served ad nauseum. ah. much better. HA! Good Fun!

admitted off the rails: if it were not so cumbersome, am suspecting amentep could use the video as his permanent signature HA! Good Fun!

Gromnir I would suggest you try another holiday destination just for variety....it sounds like it would be of benefit, you sound a little jaded depends on what you mean. give up kauai? *snort* not gonna happen. thanksgiving and christmas, on the other hand, typical involve family. ... you have no idea how frequent we has considered altering our holiday destinations that is involving family. HA! Good Fun!

net or gross? if you persist on enduring a long-term relationship wherein costs outweigh return on investment, you is likely making a mistake maintaining the relationship... or perhaps we is referencing family? however, excepting romance wherein we thinks folks is often bug-nut crazy in their seeming desperation to avoid being alone, we will concede our hypocrisy in this regard as we frequently indulge in relationships wherein we is near absolute certain that the ledger will end up looking poor. hope? charity? is perhaps proof o' the perversity o' The Universe, but the folks who need help is those least likely to genuine embrace aid. perhaps we is so willing to help the helpless as we recognize our self in such folks and thus we is in fact getting payment in spite o' the seeming futility? dunno. HA! Good Fun!

sequels different and better than original? bg2 were superior to bg1, but the sequel weren't a re-imagining so much as a refinement. mechwarrior 2 v. mechwarrior? is odd, but there were actual quasi role-play aspects in the first mechwarrior game, but the combat were so much better in the second incarnation that we didn't mind the absence o' rp. gonna go slight obscure on this... battlezone. v. battlezone (1998) is near the top o' our list o' Best Games Nobody Played. HA! Good Fun1

thanksgiving, Gromnir's yearly trip to hawaii, and christmas all is happening far too contemporaneous. is a plot o' xenu, the galactic overloard? ... is a bit like swimming laps in a nice indoor pool for 47 weeks... start to have delusions o' being johnny weismuller? then circumstances change and for last five weeks o' the year, instead o' swimming in a pool, you is trying to swim same distances in the ocean. we give up. the holidays won and we lost. perhaps ironic, but now we actual we need a vacation. HA! Good Fun!

3dm saved you $60? we googled "3DM" in reference to pc games and what we got is references to game cracks. you ain't saying you is playing a game without paying for it, is you? obsidian is understandably intolerant o' such stuff. in fact, it were our understanding that one o' the Prime Evils that the mods were s'posed to squash on these boards is any advocacy o' piracy, implied or overt. advocacy o' piracy is one o' the few clear no-nos we got, yes? perhaps you might wanna change story before some actual obsinate returns from holiday and notices your faux pas, and the inexplicable mod indifference. HA! Good Fun!

don't expect uniformity. each municipality does things a bit different. that being said, we has only heard colonel for some state police, so a county colonel is new to us. oh, and then there is kentucky colonels... http://kycolonels.org/ HA! Good Fun!

one benefit to the developer and publisher is to gauge interest for potential future multiplayer titles using the same intellectual property. is there actual interest for mp dragon age? what is feedback from players of da:i mp? does such feedback give ideas as to how one would make a better da mp game, or perhaps even a da mmo? we got no reason to believe our guess has any validity whatsoever, but we can see potential usefulness o' such a thing to publisher/developers. HA! Good Fun!

"Unless Gromnir produces the actual study so we can see if it really supports his theory, we'll have to make do with summaries. (1) (2)" we don't expect you to believe us, but you don't need us to provide the info. in one link you can see the following sources mentioned. 1 Minnesota Peace Officer Standards and Training, A Study of the Minnesota Professional Peace Officer Education System (1991). 2 National Advisory Commission on Criminal Justice Standards and Goals, Police (Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1973). 3 Brookings Institution, Upgrading the American Police, by C. B. Saunders Jr. (Washington, D.C.: 1970). 4 D. L. Carter and A. D. Sapp, "College Education and Policing: Coming of Age," FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin (January 1992): 8-14. 5 D. J. Bell, "The Police Role and Higher Education," Journal of Police Science and Administration, vol. 7, no. 4 (1979 ): 467-475. 6 H. R. Bowen, Investment in Learning: The Individual and Social Value of American Higher Education (San Francisco: Jossey Bass, 1977). hey, as is christams eve, just one example to get you started: http://www.academia.edu/2907549/The_Effect_of_Higher_Education_on_Police_Behavior with just that list you may find literal dozens of links and articles that also utilized the same sources to either refute or support the notion that educated cops is less likely to be subjected to discipline... which will reveal even more such articles and studies. lazy. you state, "While that seems to support his idea," but then you lift one quote outta context as if such is effective refuting? HA! you not need Gromnir. do yourself. hell, look how long it took for us to get you to admit that cops get paid more than a pittance? it don't appear that you actual wanna discuss merits, so why don't we switch roles? HA! Good Fun!

So, you're okay with cops keeping silent or actively assisting in covering up the abuses of another cop out of a sense of loyalty ? I suppose they do have multiple loyalties and some are prioritized over others - but it seems some of them have that queue messed up. we can only provide anecdotal. when we worked juvenile hall, we were mighty conflicted about reporting infractions of fellow probation officers-- the county probation department ran the local juvi hall. if we reported a fellow employee for, just as examples, being asleep on-duty or leaving a security door unlocked, we would then needs have to deal with the predictable backlash from our fellow "counselors." the next time Gromnir needed counselor backup or support, we would expect less than their full effort, and we would be certain that if we ever made an error, no matter how minor, we would be instant reported. and again, we were only working juvenile hall. the residents Gromnir typical dealt with were older and bigger than the average resident, but we is still talking 'bout 16 and 17 year olds as 'posed to adult criminals with firearms. if you cannot trust the people you work with, it is unlikely you will last long in any law enforcement job. sidenote: we did write a memo to administration regarding chairs of all things. in the high security unity we searched residents for such items as pencils and shiv/toothbrushes as such things could be utilized as weapons. unfortunately, the residents used plastic chairs when they were watching tv or eating meals in the unit. we observed that a pool table had been removed from J-unit a number of years previous because a resident had used a pool cue as a weapon and struck a counselor doing serious and permanent physical damage in the attack. we further observed that the chairs we currently utilized in the high security unit, a unit that housed accused rapists and murderers, were heavier than a pool cue and could also be used as very effective and deadly weapons of opportunity. etc. yadda yadda. we were given a crap detail after we submitted the memo to the lead supervisor. the administration didn't like that we wrote such a memo. nevertheless, one supervisor "had our back." the supervisor who approved o' our actions got us transferred to his time-slot at the hall and from that point we were working effectively for him at intake/security. we certainly felt a significant amount of loyalty towards the supervisor who were looking out for our best interests, especially when the alternative were having to clean the fecal matter that B_____ used to paint his room when he were off his medications. HA! Good Fun! ps we would never fail to report what we saw as egregious infractions or assaults on residents, regardless o' loyalty or esprit de corps or whatever. but borderline stuff? am betting that "boarderline" is even more confusing for police officers.

laziness should not be encouraged. in the links #s has in his recent post we can see many sources indicated. do a search. educate self. clearly you don't necessarily believe Gromnir conclusions, even if some such stuff is self evident (e.g. requiring more education would require more pay.) otherwise we get the nonsense such as above where in spite o' general findings, we get somebody post a single quote rather than reading whole articles or actual studies. HA! Good Fun!

usa today is not the only such study... do a check for yourself. differing numbers were taken into account. is also noteworthy that in at least a couple such studies we saw, such articles and papers is prefaced with the % of the budget police departments spend on personnel. number we saw most often is ~85%. sidenote: we will recheck, but am recalling that there were some oddity regarding cops with masters degrees. such cops were represented by a very small sample size and the typical cop, even the typical college grad cop, don't get a masters til he has been on the force for some considerable number o' years. discipline actions and sick days and other such stuff were extreme similar between cops with masters and long-time vets w/o a degree. HA! Good Fun! ps am recalling that usa today didn't actual do the study that were quoted, but rather some kinda police chief's periodical.

"According to a 2006 report by USA Today, “In an analysis of disciplinary cases against Florida cops from 1997 to 2002, the International Association of Chiefs of Police found that officers with only high school educations were the subjects of 75% of all disciplinary actions. Officers with four-year degrees accounted for 11% of such actions.” " is only one study. college degrees for cops make a significant difference. "Pretty much anything and everything done by or associated with the Rand Corporation is slanted evil in some manner and is often pure BS." this guys is so amusing. am beginning to think he is an oby dopple. all those nobel prize (literally dozens) winners who has contributed to RAND studies over the past few decades is demons in disguise. HA! Good Fun!

today is shady's birthday, yes? happy birthday and merry christmas. HA! Good Fun!

ps let's do a quick review so we can see what happened in this thread. "Er, call me naïve, but wouldn't this be solved by having cops earn more than a pittance? Encourage smart, hard-working, committed and motivated youths to pursue a career in law enforcement, instead of recruiting just about anyone that can pass a drug test. Societies have the police forces they pay for, like everything else." so, yeah, we call you naive. even after you see that our cops, guys who typical need only a ged, is getting paid similar to many college grads, you still don't seem to wanna back away from your misconception. ask for dramatic more education will shrink the pool o' current applicants and will necessarily require more pay to expand such a diminished pool to fill hiring needs... and where the heck will the money come from? HA! Good Fun!

"Cops get paid more than teachers, so cops get paid more than all college graduates" where did we say that? nowhere? so why put in quotes? even so, you didn't read the links, did you? "A patrol officer’s average take-home pay of $57,770 is comparable to our other Best Social Services Jobs." oh, and we agree that teacher turnover is high. 20% is not good. is one reason why teacher median is low. a 10 year teacher makes far more than a starting teacher, nevertheless, the median numbers shown ain't what we would expect. you is proving our point. teachers is an oft used example o' underpaid and high turnover, and yet there is less problem getting educated teacher than there is getting cops. and you are so missing the point. YES, chemical engineers make far more money. that is precisely the freaking point. there is no way you can pay cops that kinda money... the money doesn't exist to pay cops that much. and if you give a guy with a chemical engineering degree the choice between being, say, a chemical freaking engineer and a cop, which occupation would the typical recent college grad choose? make the pay the same for chemical engineers and cops (HA!) and which job would the guy with the degree in chemical engineering choose? "Prohibitive, really? I could bring up defense or intelligence budget figures, but you'd just say that those are fed spending items and the fed can't do anything about local and state budgets or some other bureaucratic cop-out. " show them. cop departments has already pointed out they need help to afford body cams, and you want to significantly raise cop salary? good luck. wacky stuff. you see numbers o' the increase in cop pay, and that is for guys with a ged, but you don't think that needing to raise pay proportional so that we got universal college grad cops would be expensive? and you Particularly given the numbers we keep showing for the current grad rates o' blacks... which is also a priority. HA! Good Fun!

from your own link, a "Police Officer" has a mean of $58,720. "33-3050 Police Officers broad 639,440 0.5% 4.823 $26.99 $28.23 $58,720 0.7%" another link to make easier to see without any, uh, shenanigans http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/patrol-officer/salary cops, who has only a ged requirement in most locales, is already getting more money than teachers, and teachers need More education than a simple college degree. you is also ignoring that the "mean" is a number that gets adjusted 'cause o' the ridiculous amount o' turnover we see for police. we can't keep police officers working as police officers, so their mean is skewed towards folks who has not been police a particular long time. and yeah, raising the education requirements is prohibitive for the reasons we already noted.... and based on the links you provide. am not sure where the disconnect is? a college graduate, depending on the degree, can make far more money during his lifetime than the average high school grad http://www.hamiltonproject.org/files/downloads_and_links/MajorDecisions-Figure_2a.pdf cops is already being paid far above what folks with similar education would expect to earn. yeah, any problem can be fixed if you throw enough money at it, but where is you gonna get the money? we is already overpaying cops based on education and folks is not choosing to become cops. also, there is a genuine desire to hire more minorities. this will be even more difficult if you raise the educational requirements for the job. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/black-male-hs-graduation-_n_1896490.html http://americaswire.org/drupal7/?q=content/black-males-missing-college-campuses the problem is a far bigger hurdle than you suggest, and it is exacerbated by the fact that police departments is state and local organizations. we gave you a link to the LA county police department. ferguson missouri, which were in the news recently, has a total population o' ~21,000. each municipality, county and state organization gots their own standards... and their own budget. in the US we have already tried #'s suggestion-- we have thrown money at the problem, money we can't afford to spend. we already give cops more money than what many jobs requiring college degrees require and we can't get enough qualified cops. raise educational requirements NECESSARILY shrinks the pool o' prospective candidates. oh, and as drowsy's case suggests, police departments has observed that their more educated applicants... quit. HA! Good Fun!

bat-crap crazy is Not sexy, but isabelle adjani pulled it off in camille claudel. HA! Good Fun!

tamales. yum. you use lard, yes? lard is love. HA! Good Fun!

Er, call me naïve, but wouldn't this be solved by having cops earn more than a pittance? Encourage smart, hard-working, committed and motivated youths to pursue a career in law enforcement, instead of recruiting just about anyone that can pass a drug test. Societies have the police forces they pay for, like everything else. Actually I read in an article that recruits scoring higher than a certain number in IQ tests in the US were undesirable for cops. Whether this was limited to a particular state I can't recall. It does make sense. Thicker people tend to follow orders to the letter and are less likely to question them. am not certain where you got the article 'bout the case, but the reason for rejecting robert jordan with his high test scores were actual quite reasonable... although there weren't a good amount of data to support the reasoning. police department didn't need to support with data 'cause smarty folks ain't a suspect class. anywho, is not that the police department wanted stoopid cops, but rather that the turnover rate for those applicants with more education and higher test scores were low. train your cops and have them leave the department shortly after being hired is a bad hiring practice. is actual evidence o' the larger problem we is talking 'bout: educated and qualified folks don't wanna be cops. "Yeah, I checked and wages for cops are higher than the national average, and high in relative terms considering that there is no higher education requirement... but that's kind of the point. An increase in job requirements must entail an increase in wages." cops is already being paid disproportionate compared to other jobs with similar educational requirements. where do you expect the money to pay for cops if $57, 420 ain't enough for LA county as it is? currently you need a ged or high school diploma to be a cop in LA. if you raise education requirement, how much more is you gonna need pay? and yeah, there is a problem getting enough cops, but if we had an effective program that were getting more young black women through college and employed in good jobs, am betting many o' the issues in this thread would disappear, but you is facing a much bigger problem than cops if you wanna tackle that one. HA! Good Fun!

Er, call me naïve, but wouldn't this be solved by having cops earn more than a pittance? Encourage smart, hard-working, committed and motivated youths to pursue a career in law enforcement, instead of recruiting just about anyone that can pass a drug test. Societies have the police forces they pay for, like everything else. cops actual get paid okie dokie... better than teachers. teachers need even more education than cops and can't get benefits o' near guaranteed overtime that cops get. http://www.joinlapd.com/salary.html obvious the starting pay is gonna be different depending on the department, but cop pay is actual pretty darn good considering most don't require college education. but again, keep in mind that one o' the most common complaints we heard during the mike brown incident were that while ferguson demographics has a ~67% black population (am not certain of that number,) the police department employed ~6% black officers. folks will take offense at Gromnir's suggestion, but am thinking it is obvious that raising the educational requirements will make it even more difficult to increase the number o' black officers... and for legal reasons you ain't gonna be able to pay new black officers more than white. HA! Good Fun! HA! Good Fun!

Motivate them with a sharpened stick. isn't the whole point o' christmas that parents get a month or so during which they can threaten children with the spectre o' a grim christmas if they end up on the fat man's naughty list? ok, we know the actual point o' christmas is for retailers to sell off inventory before the end of the year, but the carrot v. stick approach must be in the top ten, no? HA! Good Fun!

In my opinion, the problem isn't with the cops being trained to effectively neutralize threats, it's with the fact that no checks exists that ensure such training is indeed only used on actual threats. the way the public reacted to the eric garner video makes that a suspect proposition, yes? eric garner were, according to training Gromnir and others received, a threat. he were resisting arrest and he were clearly agitated, but again, the average person didn't see the video the same way as did Gromnir, or cops or a grand jury that gets cop policy and procedure explained to them. we thought universal body cams were a fantastic idea following the mike brown incident. we still believe universal body cams is a good idea. sadly, we now is certain that body cams will, initially, cause more negative backlash as public gets to see what is the ordinary procedure for "neutralizing threats." that being said, we has noted elsewhere that an organization that polices itself is always suspect. whether it is the ncaa or the bar association or cops, who work hand-in-hand with local district attorneys, having any organization checked only by itself always raises suspicion. unfortunately, as far as cops is concerned, there ain't an easy solution. you gonna try and make every complaint against cops reviewed by... well, who do you want to review? the Fed? which fed? the fbi and doj? there already is fed review for civil rights cases, but am assuming that ain't what you want. if it ain't what you want, then why? because plaintiffs have a hard time winning civil rights cases against cops? no offense, but fact that plaintiffs typical lose is not justification for changing the system. we keep mentioning this, but our criminal system is designed so that defendants get presumptions o' innocence and we would rather see ten (100 according to ben franklin) guilty people go free rather than have one innocent suffer. somehow prove that any individual use o' excessive force is racially motivated is Hard to prove. it should be hard to prove. so, civil rights ain't good enough. what is the alternative? Congress creates a new law to make any and all police cases reviewable by... somebody? under what authority would Congress do so? most folks forget their high school history and government lessons, but to have state and local cops get some kinda quasi-neutral review o' excessive force cases is gonna be more appropriate to state legislation. we s'pose Congress could tie funding of state and local police departments (am not sure how much that actual is, do you?) to only those departments that is subject to our theoretical neutral finder of fact. dunno. more likely is that 50 different states is gonna need come up with 50 different solutions. that may be necessary, but am thinking you can recognize how difficult that would be. also, while clearly most folks here is not concerned about justice for cops, the notion o' an insular and discreet investigative body and dispenser o' justice to handle excessive force cases strikes us as being a bit akin to a star chamber mentality. one will need to be extreme careful 'bout the creation o' such a a thing... if such is even legal in light o' due process and equal protection law. *shrug* the biggest problem we see is the socio-economic issues that we believe is ultimately the cause o' distrust o' cops. those problems ain't gonna be fixed anytime soon. the most obvious fix is actual to hire cops with college degrees. this is not a snob thing on Gromnir's part. numerous studies has shown that cops with higher education is less likely to face disciplinary action. unfortunately, large, urban police departments has a particular problem hiring enough cops with such high educational standards. also, and am knowing this will annoy some to hear it, but creating a greater emphasis on getting cops with college degrees onto the streets will further decrease the percentage of black cops. dunno. the eric garner situation made it obvious to us how much o' a disconnect there is between cop pov, a pov which is backed by law, and the perspective o' the public... and the law should represent the will o' the public. there is a problem. HA! Good Fun!

if we all could agree that gaming journalism is functionally an oxymoron, am expecting the gamergate silliness would be forgotten sooner rather than later. HA! Good Fun!