Gromnir

uh, yeah. even if you think we is "incohesvive" and sharing incorrect info (*snort*) it hardly diminishes the validity o' our recent observation: your completion o' the game hardly confers infallibility. "Well, since I easily beat the game on supreme jerk, I can safely say that your assertion that I'm making "a mistake" is unfounded." amusing. however, you is correct that theoretically mechanics creates a double opportunity. 'course one wonders if you is intentional ignoring the rest o' our observations 'bout mechanic repair. is maybe that obtuseness hp jr suffers from is contagious. your observation does very little to suggests that mechanics is indeed a useful xp generating skill for reasons we already stated. your failure at reading an entire post actual does make us wonder at the possibility of creating a mechanics exploit. one ranger could be given intentionally poor lock or safecrack skills: 1(ish) level. again, fixing a lock is more difficult that opening, so the vast majority o' critical failed locks will be beyond repair skills of any ranger, unless one exploits the system. medium locks only got a small crit fail chance, so is tough to get much xp from such fails. there is few mechanics opportunities in the game, and hoping for fails to get the fix chance is silly for reasons we already explained. but what if you has a ranger take an intentional ~1 in safes and locks? this ranger will be crit failing all the freaking time, and he/she will be doing so on locks that is simple for your ranger who is maxing such skills. one suspects that for every simple or easy lock one comes up against, one could send your auto-fail ranger in to intentionally crit fail. the mechanic would then have a easy or medium chance with mechanics, and your locksmith character would also get a chance to open the repaired lock. two rangers would then get xp for a pool of locks that is not simple a prohibitive small amount. *shrug* is too much work for Gromnir. have just enough throwaway points to near certain crit fail w/o being too incompetent to get "impossible" message? otherwise, you is hoping for the 1% to 10% typical failure rates for the vast majority o' locked devices, of which there aren't all that freaking many to begin with. sans some kinda exploit, mechanics is a dog skill for generating xp. HA! Good Fun!

in retrospect, giving all the good skills to the high charisma leader is arse backwards as it is gimping everybody but the leader. the benefit of the charisma boost is largely negligible, so giving all your best xp generating skills to one ranger is effective gimping all those other rangers. oh, sure, mathematically you get most benefit from the charisma boost by dropping the skills into one character, but to do so is ultimately self defeating as you is going to be giving leveling advantages to likely your least effective combat ranger and you will not be seeing any real advantages from doing so until At Least 1/2 into the game. So let's say you went balls to the wall with this character and gave them 10 INT and 8 CHA. Skills might be lockpicking, demolitions, sniper rifle, leadership and kiss ass (with less INT I would expect less skills assigned to that character). we contemplated such a character, for about five minutes. heck, we were trying to get hp jr. to recognize the mistake you is making and he never did. he wanted to compare his leader to his "best character" while seeming to forget that his leader were necessarily his worst character. so you wanna show us we ain't gimping party? *chuckle* ok, le'ts go balls to the walls and end up with a character that gots 10 int and 8 cha. what kinda ap and ci does that character get? so, to build a character that will indeed start getting a few extra levels than the rest of the party by mid point of the game, you gotta turn that ranger into relative dead weight in combat.... which is fine. is a quasi-rpg, so if you wanna make a single character with terrible combat contributions, that is okie dokie. the thing is, as enoch notes, you ain't genuine enhancing your remaining ranger's combat efficacy by turning your charisma monkey into your party gimp. again, the insular mathematical advantage is to make such a skill & charisma monkey, but that mathematical advantage only exists outside actual gameplay. as soon as combat starts, and combat is a very large % o' the potential gameplay, the mathematical advantage evaporates. you can , of course, make a more combat efficacious charisma monkey, but doing so necessitates reducing intelligence or charisma, which largely nullifies the advantages o' such a character. furthermore, as you should be able to see from our screenie and feedback on this issue, skill choice is far more important than even two or three points o' charisma. Well, since I easily beat the game on supreme jerk, I can safely say that your assertion that I'm making "a mistake" is unfounded. I have no problem admitting that a 10 INT 8 CHA character is almost certainly going to be your weakest combat character, but who cares? You can have up to 7 characters, and combat is *totally* doable with some non-combatants on the team. And I never claimed that I would be "enhancing my remaining ranger's combat efficacy" by having a less combat oriented character on the team, so I'm not sure what you're on about with that point. Trying to steer your response back on track, your point that I previously responded to was that by giving non-combat skills to my CHA character I would end up gimping "the party" and "gimping everyone BUT the leader". So why are you now trying to back that up by explaining that I will be gimping the high CHA character, pointing out low CI and such? In relation to the party, what relevance does that one character's CI or AP have? "The party" will still have plenty of non-combat skills they can spread around so the more combat oriented characters have additional sources of xp, which is what I pointed out. I neglected to mention weaponsmithing, so thanks for including that in the list. Sorry, but you're really off point here. Clearly some skills are richer in xp opportunities than others, but as I stated previously, you can adjust who gets what as you see fit. As for mechanical repair you are incorrect about xp being transferred from one character to the other. This skill actually creates an additional xp opportunity each time. The sequence is 1) critical failure (no xp), 2) mechanical repair (xp on success), 3) retry original skill check (xp on success). enoch is correct that we do target poor reasoning. you is a treasure trove o' opportunities. *shrug* all we need say is that complete game on any level o' difficulty does not preclude the possibility that you is mistaken about a mechanic or feature or... whatever. HA! Good Fun!

Oh I do know what it means. You're the text book case of obtuse. I have to chuckle at these quotes. you really don't get it. we noted, multiple times, that the value o' charisma in wasteland 2 were limited to 2 factors: "1) it boosts area of effect on the accuracy bonus for leadership (snort) and, 2) it gives a small xp bonus that is ultimately insignificant w/o giving your charisma jockey a high use skill." we also noted how leadership woked in the beta: "the way leadership worked in the beta is we got a 2% accuracy boost per level, and in-game description continues to boast a +2% boost that we do not get, but that is a whole 'nother issue." charisma is still of negligible value for leveling purposes, but the most recent patch, which we were made aware of by enoch in the following post on November 5th, http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68953-wasteland-2/?p=1532361 Doubled the value o' leadership's accuracy bonus. if we did not take new information and changes into account, that would indeed make us as obtuse as you is being. we would also be contradicting self if we failed to applaud the return o' leadership to its beta state as we noted how essential the skill were in its beta form. again, you clear don't know what obtuse means if you is doggedly arguing this point. *shrug* keep posting as you is further illustrating our point 'bout you being obtuse & evasive. HA! Good Fun! ps as for your theory crafting acumen and diligence, we find such laughable based on your use of screen shots o' an ar wielding rose trying to make head shots at 48% as indicative o' headshot efficacy, and your desire to argue 'bout whether charisma affected zone of influence of rogue chance reduction of leadership rather than freaking testing it as Gromnir did.

in retrospect, giving all the good skills to the high charisma leader is arse backwards as it is gimping everybody but the leader. the benefit of the charisma boost is largely negligible, so giving all your best xp generating skills to one ranger is effective gimping all those other rangers. oh, sure, mathematically you get most benefit from the charisma boost by dropping the skills into one character, but to do so is ultimately self defeating as you is going to be giving leveling advantages to likely your least effective combat ranger and you will not be seeing any real advantages from doing so until At Least 1/2 into the game. So let's say you went balls to the wall with this character and gave them 10 INT and 8 CHA. Skills might be lockpicking, demolitions, sniper rifle, leadership and kiss ass (with less INT I would expect less skills assigned to that character). we contemplated such a character, for about five minutes. heck, we were trying to get hp jr. to recognize the mistake you is making and he never did. he wanted to compare his leader to his "best character" while seeming to forget that his leader were necessarily his worst character. so you wanna show us we ain't gimping party? *chuckle* ok, le'ts go balls to the walls and end up with a character that gots 10 int and 8 cha. what kinda ap and ci does that character get? so, to build a character that will indeed start getting a few extra levels than the rest of the party by mid point of the game, you gotta turn that ranger into relative dead weight in combat.... which is fine. is a quasi-rpg, so if you wanna make a single character with terrible combat contributions, that is okie dokie. the thing is, as enoch notes, you ain't genuine enhancing your remaining ranger's combat efficacy by turning your charisma monkey into your party gimp. again, the insular mathematical advantage is to make such a skill & charisma monkey, but that mathematical advantage only exists outside actual gameplay. as soon as combat starts, and combat is a very large % o' the potential gameplay, the mathematical advantage evaporates. you can , of course, make a more combat efficacious charisma monkey, but doing so necessitates reducing intelligence or charisma, which largely nullifies the advantages o' such a character. furthermore, as you should be able to see from our screenie and feedback on this issue, skill choice is far more important than even two or three points o' charisma. oh, and mechanical repair is a terrible xp skill. to get the benefits o' repairing locks you must first needs fail at another skill, so you is simple taking xp from another character... need hope for many fails to make useful. furthermore, in our experience, is typical that the skill to repair a lock requires higher skill than to open said lock. chances are we is already making stuff such as lock pick and safecrack a priority for skills. the likelihood that we got higher skill in mechanical is near nil. am guessing you could come back to critical fail locks some couple o' levels later, but isn't it easier to take a couple random map encounters if you is so desperate for xp? there is a safe in the ag center we failed. how likely is we to go back to ag center and fix the lock after we has level'd a bit? additional, folks on this board has observed a dearth o' mechanical repair opportunities in ca, and there are not a particular large number o' such options in az. in fact, more than a few mechanical repair options may be resolved via frequent use skills such as computers and demolitions, so assuming you got the trinket for mechanical repair (am pretty confident we saw one at a vendor, but am not certain) you won't need more than 4 or 5 points in mechanical repair to do all o' az... and if you got the skill boosting book, that number drops to 3 or 4. so, a skill we could stop paying for at between 3 and 5 needs have us get 8 or 9 skill levels to overcome the critical fails... fails which is less likely to occur if we spend points in the more relevant skills. mechanical repair is better than barter. am having difficulty saying anything else that is positive 'bout mechanical repair if it indeed drops off in usage in ca. other terrible xp skills is the speech skills, brute force, and we suspect something is wrong with outdoorsman, 'cause we skip every random world map encounter we can, but our outdoorsman character seems to benefit little or not at all from such avoidings. weaponsmith also sux for xp boosts. am not certain how many weapons we has broken down trying to get a particular mod, or 3 such mods, but numbers is high. HA! Good Fun!

Ah, so you now have no issue with a single ranger having a boosted Charisma. Just what I've been saying all along. No you haven't been consistent Gromnir. It's okay for you to apologise. But this has been a good chuckle with your obtuseness. you do realize a patch were released yesterday that doubled the efficacy o' the leadership skill, yes? no? if we ignored the change to leadership, That would be obtuse. "obtuseness" is not what you believe it to mean. perhaps ironically, your recent post is almost textbook definition o' being obtuse. *shakes head sadly* HA! Good Fun!

in retrospect, giving all the good skills to the high charisma leader is arse backwards as it is gimping everybody but the leader. the benefit of the charisma boost is largely negligible, so giving all your best xp generating skills to one ranger is effective gimping all those other rangers. oh, sure, mathematically you get most benefit from the charisma boost by dropping the skills into one character, but to do so is ultimately self defeating as you is going to be giving leveling advantages to likely your least effective combat ranger and you will not be seeing any real advantages from doing so until At Least 1/2 into the game. that being said, now that leadership is corrected, we got no issue with a single ranger having a boosted charisma. we complained long about this( http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66368-wasteland-2-kickstarted/page-17?do=findComment&comment=1514419 ) but it is good to see inxile finally address after a few post release patches, cause otherwise, charisma were useless. the only meaningful benefit o' charisma were the increase in the zone of influence of the accuracy boost from leadership, which we were getting 1/2 value from until today. we likely would still not increase charisma past 5ish for a leader as as that is typical more than enough to benefit all rangers save for offensive minded melee types who may run outside the charisma 5 leader's sphere o' influence. the thing is, the melee types will likely have no need for the accuracy boost save at the lowest levels of advancement. and we note that Gromnir has been consistent in his position. hp jr.'s euphoria aside (HA!), he has changed his stance. based on his own posts, suggesting that he were having a 1.5 level advantage from a charisma boost of 6-7 points were actually very generous of us. hp jr. should be should be apologizing and not complaining. ... we can wait for the apology... or not. HA! Good Fun!

And now he's more than halfway through level 31 while one is still on level 28 and most are still on 29. It's become a 2-3 point spread, closing on 4 with my lowest levelled party member. which don't change at all that at level 30 you had a 1-2 level spread advantage when you had only just reached level 30... and calling it two levels is generous based on your description. again, 'cause you don't recall your own posts: "He hit level 30 on that encounter in Santa Monica and everyone else is at the end of level 28 or mostly on level 29 including Pizepi." oh sure, you can change stuff, be evasive and obfuscate, but you is gonna keep running into what you posted earlier. is too late to edit old posts. too bad, eh? HA! Good Fun!

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68953-wasteland-2/?p=1532006 you are the guy who said your rangers were at 28 and 29 when you were just hitting 30 with your charisma monkey. you wanna change story a bit to make a nonsense point? hey, a couple more posts from now will have you predicting a 10 level gap by the time you hit level 40 with your charisma monkey. *shrug* HA! Good Fun!

Ah Gromnir, the obtuse and evasive hypocrite who obfuscates all over the place. You're the one who's obfuscating. No Gromnir, I never said that. I know it's easy for you to make up stories and not actually quote anything I say. But please continue with your made up stories. You're still going on about 1.5 levels and basing it on my entire party which is not true. It's at least 1.5 to 3 levels when you get to level 30 for me. And it's at least 2-4 levels depending on which character you compare to in my party at different times of levelling. I imagine it will be close to 4-6 levels by level 40 near the end of the game but I'll have to wait and see. So you think a character that's 4-6 levels higher than the rest of your party near the end of the game is useless? *chuckles* ... am waiting for him to recognize, but perhaps is pointless. 30 levels to get a 1.5-2 level spread? is somebody gonna point out to this joker how funny it is that he keeps wanting to compare level disparity between his charisma monkey and his "best character"? is as if he don't realize what he is posting. HA! Good Fun!

So you take people's anecdotes over any screen shots that might prove what they are saying? your suspicion is what is strange. would cost us little to post screenies at this point, but your obfuscation in your postings and your peculiar suspicion o' others only succeeds in making us see you as more concerned with promoting a childish agenda than you is with discussing actual issues. HA! Good Fun!

he is a strange puppy. one wonders why he keeps doing obfuscation with numbers. we don't care what his best character is, so why would we compare. he gave us levels and charisma scores for 3 characters. based on his description, we note that the extra 6 points got him 1.5 levels further than the character who were having 2 charisma. hell, is like pulling teeth with him to get relevant information as it is. all the rest o' his comments is noise. 6 extra charisma points managed to get him 1.5 extra levels after 30 leveling opportunities. complete and utter waste. hell, he gave us combat and kill numbers too, and that only further sabotaged his own position regarding the usefulness o' charisma. weird. now, if leadership is working as it is described, that does make a difference, but the leveling bonus for charisma, given the cost, is pathetic: useless. HA! Good Fun!

am wondering what that means. hopefully it corrects so that we get 2% per level o' leadership rather than simply correcting the in-game description so that it matches the 1% we is actual getting. HA! Good Fun!

we don't get much juice per squeeze with the speech skills, but we can't stand missing a potential dialogue option 'cause o' insufficient points. speech skills is a priority for us. there is an ag center dialog that we missed 'cause it required a freaking smart ass of 6. *grumble* we were also surprised (a smidgen) by the fact that we appear to be having more safecrack opportunities than lockpick. is not a huge disparity, but is noticeable. the occasional minefield and plethora o' disarm opportunities has, so far, made demolitions the clear Win skill insofar as xp rewards is concerned. and while alarm disarm were a poor skill choice for ag center (slight better for our highpool run), it has gotten progressive better henceforth. regardless, it seems obvious to us that skill choice is more meaningful than than the charisma bonus. the number o' charisma points you need to makes the xp boost meaningful is prohibitive. what relegates the charisma boost to utter uselessness is that level boost benefits develop late in the game, when those extra skill points and con points is less important. is same reason why it is stoopid to boost intelligence late. haven't played since we finished az, but at level 25/26, we is already seeing that we is soon gonna be running out of meaningful uses for skill points. every skill point is golden at level 4... at level 40 we suspect we will have more than a few unused points... or we will be throwing points into barter. proviso: if we could imagine high charisma brawler build into existence, that might be a tiny bit different as brawlers get meaningful combat boosts from their levels. aside: the monocle enoch mentioned earlier is a bug/quirk that has been around for awhile, but we only ever found one character type that genuine got use from it: the blunt weapons melee ranger. the ci cost is extreme, so we can't envision giving the trinket to a brawler who only attacks opponents in the narrow corridor direct in front o' his/her self. pretty much any ranged character is hurt more than is helped by the monocle. on the other hand, a blunt weapon expert can attack diagonal, which turns the monocle wearing blunt weapons ranger into the 300 at thermopylae. slight hyperbole? nevertheless, put your blunt basher in a defensive position and watch folks try and get past him. is amusing. HA! Good Fun!

you are insane. 1.5 levels disparity is gained when giving a high yield skill AND allocating 6-7 more attribute points into charisma? and you do not see that as useless? who would make that trade? would anybody dump 6-7 additional points into charisma to gain 1.5 extra levels after every 30 levels gained? you is bug nut crazy if that is what you is selling. charisma modifies two features: 1) it boosts area of effect on the accuracy bonus for leadership (snort) and, 2) it gives a small xp bonus that is ultimately insignificant w/o giving your charisma jockey a high use skill. am thinking we not need try very hard to get a consensus on the uselessness o' your suggestion. we know for a fact that a 2 point charisma difference is not enough to bridge the xp gulf between a player with leadership, hard arse and shotguns v. any build with frequent use skills that provide individual xp gains. however, for the sake of argument, let us call it a call it a given that for every 6 additional charisma points you give to a ranger, you will see an additional level earned every 25 levels. this is an extreme generous given based on your example. now, who in their right freaking mind would suggest that 6 points placed into charisma, an otherwise useless attribute, would be gaining usefulness 'cause o' the 1.5 skill level payoff you describe? possibly vol. congrats. ... amazing. you didn't think the 6-7 additional points you dumped into charisma were worth noting, but you have the temerity to call us evasive? you suggest that 6-7 points o' otherwise wasted charisma is a useful spending of attribute points when the pay-off, when coupled with a high-output skill, is 1.5 additional leveling opportunities after THIRTY leveling opportunities? and you call us obtuse? you want screenies? HA! scroll back up and read your own posts. your suspicion was stated quite effective. why on earth would we bother with screenies or youtube when you made it clear that you "can only go off my gameplay." HA Good Fun! ps we see you didn't respond to our observation about how your leader's lagging combat efficacy hurt your argument. evasive?

in a previous post you expressed that you would be dubious about claims even if they included screenies, so try to go easy on the hypocrisy... and there is no freaking need to respond further now that you has indeed provided the details we asked you to provide. you is comparing an 8 charisma character to characters with 1s and 2s in charisma? after 30 levels you end up with 1 level o' disparity with a seven point charisma gap? you is freaking proving our point about the uselessness o' charisma without realizing it. and providing kill totals for your leader in the context o' xp is only useful to further undercut your argument. combat xp is the one kinda xp that is divided evenly regardless o' the contributions you make in combat. we will let you puzzle out the why. *snort* HA! Good Fun!

4 skills. Alarm disarm, Kiss ass, Leadership and Assault Rifles. Alarm disarm is something that wasn't fully utilised in the first half of the game and only really comes into play in LA. Kiss Ass is not that much different to all the other dialogue skills. Leadership doesn't grant xp so it's a background skill. Assault Rifles is the last skill I took with my Leader. And that's it. No other skills at all. So all I can take from that is the reason why he's higher than everybody else is the bonus xp from Charisma. And if you want to wonder about developers creating dump stats, you have to look no further than this board you're posting on and the Pillars of Eternity feedback with characters having two dump stats. Especially ranged characters. *sigh* first, poe is not analogous. luck and charisma is dump stats for any and all characters in wasteland 2. second, you still ain't providing feedback.... is much like your anecdotal ar examples that is based on one encounter wherein you use headshot poorly and make sweeping generalizations based on the outcome. you indicated that your rangers who is lagging a whopping 1/2 to 1 level behind is having basement charisma, but you don't tell us what your leader's charisma is. btw, by the time we finished az, the characters who is getting the most xp boosting is demolitions, alarm disarm, and safe cracking... in that order... though our medic skill may be gaining. our efficacy in combat has had our medic being underutilized. regardless, we pointed out that our leader has non combat skill o' hard arse and leadership and is lagging behind rangers with charisma of three and four. your leader gots alarm, but you not seem to think this difference is meaningful? is the ad hoc skills that make the difference. chuckle. is like pulling teeth to get you to actual provide relevant details. sheesh. to cant, " Of course, when your super skilled braniac goes last every combat round because he's blind, stiff, slow, and ugly, then the combat skill points have a lot of extra lifting to do." we wanted one ranger with a 10 in int, so we made that ranger a sniper. high ap for a sniper is not all that necessary in our experience-- between seven and nine ap is more than enough. recognizing the near worthlessness o' charisma, our revised smarty sniper would look like this: co 3, lu 1, aw 7, st 1, sp 5, int 10, ch 1. start off with 8 ap and ci of 14. add one point to coordination and three to awareness, and by level 40 you got 9 ap and 17 ci. with the engagement ring trinkets, this build will be having 8 ap and a ci o' 20... and excessive skill points. oh, sure, we can build a better sniper w/o an int o' 10, but this is a viable sniper build. aside: another change we would make is that we would give our brawler (or any melee ranger) computer science from the start. sure, it would have overlap with rose, but having a bruising damage sink who is also able to disarm robots would make him more efficacious, and we suspect that he/she would gets a considerable number o' additional computer skill checks to be boosting xp. HA! Good Fun!

I'm having the opposite effect with my Leader and his levelling. When I picked up Pizepi (level 16), I was level 11. Now at level 28/29, we've caught up to her but my Leader is now ahead of every body else including Pizepi and Brother Thomas. He hit level 30 on that encounter in Santa Monica and everyone else is at the end of level 28 or mostly on level 29 including Pizepi. My leader has broken away from the pack. I wasn't really taking much notice of it until you mentioned it. It's only a small gain but now I've noticed it. Also, I kept my Charisma for the other characters pretty low. I'm at work and from memory, Magnum has like a 1 and TC with a 2. I only upped my Charisma on one character and gave him the Leadership skill. Kept everyone else quite low. without more info, your anecdote is less than enlightening. what skills does your high charisma ranger posses? as we noted above, the character we got with the charisma o' six has skills that do not get frequent use. based on our experience, a two or three point differential in charisma is less significant (far less significant) than skill choice insofar as xp gains is concerned. Gromnir is already at level 25/26, so your three additional levels is hardly a meaningful factor. high charisma is a waste. is arguable that any charisma past 1 is a waste. charisma doesn't affect leadership area of effect, and it has less impact on xp gains than does skill choice. in fact, with benefit o' game experience and some testing, we would feel confident in stating that charisma is less useful than is luck, and luck is not particular useful either. charisma is to attributes as barter is to skills. one wonders what the inxile developers were thinking when they created two dump attributes. HA! Good Fun!

why? the way leadership worked in the beta is we got a 2% accuracy boost per level, and in-game description continues to boast a +2% boost that we do not get, but that is a whole 'nother issue. if you were arguing that charisma is valuable 'cause of its impact on the leadership skill's zone o' influence, then a recognition that charisma gots zero influence on the rogue chance is serious undercutting such a stance. the charisma boost has negligible impact on experience gains (our 6 charisma ranger is leveling noticeably slower than our 4 and 3 charisma rangers 'cause his skills is leadership and hard arse; additional points in charisma don't obviate the xp disparity resulting from absence o' frequent use skills such as safe-crack and demolitions,) so am finding it hard to argue against the proposition that placing points in charisma is anything other than a gimping of a ranger... even if such gimping were unintended. aside: against both under and overpowered foes, the proximity o' the ranger with skill levels in leadership is having 0 impact on the dozen or so encounters we has run as tests o' leadership. the abandoned rail yard is ideal for such testing as we have both weak and strong opponents on the same map, and we are able to send our leader to extreme ends o' the map away from our remaining rangers. we used an old save with level 18 rangers. HA! Good Fun!

is only a brief test, but we received a "pizepi joren calmed" message multiple times on the prison map with our leader remaining at the entrance square far beyond the range of leadership accuracy boost. will test a bit more this eve. HA! Good Fun!

how odd. if enoch or many other boardies assured us that they had tested a feature from a game, we would have very little cause for suspicion. sure, is a few boardies we wouldn't trust if they told us that water is wet, but they is exceptional rather than rule. we already know that leadership skill is broken as the in-game description were/is claiming a +2% accuracy bonus per point, so it makes sense to be suspicious o' the implementation. we have no similar cause for doubting most boardies. now, enoch has stated that there is conflicting info on the issue-- is not enoch who has tested. when we has a few minutes of free time, we will test and we will share results. it will be up to you to decide whether or not believe what we share. HA! Good Fun!

The rogue chance on my recruits did go down on their character sheets and it was the same in game. At the start, Rose would lose it quite a bit. By the time I got to Canyon of Titan, she didn't go rogue at all and hasn't done so. Pizepi has a higher chance to go rogue which she always did when I picked her up and now she's okay. I can only go off my own gameplay. I really don't see one character in your seven party team with moderate CHA and Leadership as gimping your party. Also, I didn't bother about the small time you had the AK-47s. I had M16s for most of Arizona. You get access to the AK-47s at the end of Arizona and then you can get the AK-97s just after the start of LA. So I went straight to the AK-97s. am thinking you miss enoch's point. rogue chance is decreased by leadership and not specific by charisma. charisma only affects leadership by increasing that skill's area of effect. the question is whether leadership's rogue decrease has the same effective radius as its accuracy boost. enoch suggests the possibility that leadership rogue reduction effect is not having a range or area of effect as does the paltry and insignificant accuracy bonus. therefore, a character with a charisma of one but six tiers of leadership would be as effective at decreasing joinable rogue chance as would a character with a ten charisma and the same six tiers o' leadership. do experiment: have rose stand halfway across the map, clear beyond the effective range of any possible leadership accuracy boosting effect and check out her character record sheet. does rogue chance increase at some point? next, send rose out to engage combat at some distance exceeding the accuracy boost of your leader. am not certain if there is variables affecting rogue chance such as disparate levels 'tween rose and enemies or... whatever, so you likely gotta try your experiments 'gainst tough foes. maybe not. *shrug* regardless, run a combat encounter with rose at distance and wait for rose to either go rogue or to be getting feedback that your leader calmed her. am doubtful it takes more than a handful o' tries to get a rogue opportunity that is either actualized or suppressed. leadership effect range o' leadership intrigues us. we will check the next time we get an opportunity to play wasteland 2. an effective leader character with a charisma o' 1 tickles our fancy. HA! Good Fun.

am actually surprised at how effective our brawler is. yeah, we frequent have walter e. kurtz huddling in cover for an entire fight, which feels wasteful. the necessity o' boosting strength is also a handicap compared to other melee characters. and yes, given the unique manner in which brawling damage scales, we were aware that the initial levels would not be revealing particular impressive kill or damage totals for such a melee build as we have for our brawler. even so, at level 25 and having exhausted AZ, our brawler has 86 kills and has done a total o' 6450 damage. roach, our assault rifle specialist, has achieved predictably impressive kill/damage numbers: 93/10148. benjamin l. willard, the sniper in our core 4, has 122 kills and has accounted for 14237 damage. our weak link has been william b. kilgore and his shotgun. we were aware that shotguns would be a poor early choice, and kilgore is our requisite charisma /leadership monkey, but 34 kills and 2972 damage is terrible... doing it all over would have us choosing smgs for kilgore. we needs be careful with kurtz, and he is requiring significant more medical attention than our other core rangers, but we is pleasant surprised with our brawler. we do not anticipate a significant drop-off when we arrive in CA. HA! Good Fun!

yes, we were instructed to speak with her to get our weapons returned, but her only dialogue option, no many how many times or how long we waited to initiate conversation, only had an option for taking our weapons from us. this is not our first rodeo. we can recognize a bug. is a rather serious bug too, but as we said, we had a recent save so the harm were marginalized. HA! Good Fun! ps quick search reveals we ain't alone in suffering this bug. https://forums.inxile-entertainment.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=10007 however, we will note that the workaround offered in the thread we link were unnecessary for us. we simple disarmed one ranger, and sent the rest o' our group a goodly distance from the dbm entrance. somewhat surprising, we were still able to make use o' our remote party members conversation skills while speaking with the dbm leader.

had a potentially Extreme troublesome bug in titan canyon last night. we gave up our weapons to be entering the dbm bunker/outpost, but we were never given an opportunity to retrieve said weapons. is lucky that we is a compulsive saver and we had a recent save-point. experimented and figured out a relative painless workaround to our weapon wormhole. we could have one ranger divest himself o' weapons and then enter the dbm base alone. can't lose what you don't have, yes? failure to have an option to retrieve weapons is no problem if you didn't have any weapons removed. our other rangers were needing to be a goodly distance away from the base or they would have their weapons automatically sucked into some fathomless digital hell. trial and error. titan is a bit quirky with more than a couple minor bugs... nothing major other than the weapons retrieval. on the positive side, while the combat encounters is still meh, the main titan conflict were offering a tough(er) choice(s) than previous the previous quests. HA! Good Fun!

dunno. his ap is kinda horrible for most combat builds we would consider. a sniper can have relative low ap and still excel. *shrug* even so, is a quasi-rpg, so is good if other folks see different. HA! Good Fun!