Gromnir

Ah Gromnir, the obtuse and evasive hypocrite who obfuscates all over the place. You're the one who's obfuscating. No Gromnir, I never said that. I know it's easy for you to make up stories and not actually quote anything I say. But please continue with your made up stories. You're still going on about 1.5 levels and basing it on my entire party which is not true. It's at least 1.5 to 3 levels when you get to level 30 for me. And it's at least 2-4 levels depending on which character you compare to in my party at different times of levelling. I imagine it will be close to 4-6 levels by level 40 near the end of the game but I'll have to wait and see. So you think a character that's 4-6 levels higher than the rest of your party near the end of the game is useless? *chuckles* ... am waiting for him to recognize, but perhaps is pointless. 30 levels to get a 1.5-2 level spread? is somebody gonna point out to this joker how funny it is that he keeps wanting to compare level disparity between his charisma monkey and his "best character"? is as if he don't realize what he is posting. HA! Good Fun!

So you take people's anecdotes over any screen shots that might prove what they are saying? your suspicion is what is strange. would cost us little to post screenies at this point, but your obfuscation in your postings and your peculiar suspicion o' others only succeeds in making us see you as more concerned with promoting a childish agenda than you is with discussing actual issues. HA! Good Fun!

he is a strange puppy. one wonders why he keeps doing obfuscation with numbers. we don't care what his best character is, so why would we compare. he gave us levels and charisma scores for 3 characters. based on his description, we note that the extra 6 points got him 1.5 levels further than the character who were having 2 charisma. hell, is like pulling teeth with him to get relevant information as it is. all the rest o' his comments is noise. 6 extra charisma points managed to get him 1.5 extra levels after 30 leveling opportunities. complete and utter waste. hell, he gave us combat and kill numbers too, and that only further sabotaged his own position regarding the usefulness o' charisma. weird. now, if leadership is working as it is described, that does make a difference, but the leveling bonus for charisma, given the cost, is pathetic: useless. HA! Good Fun!

am wondering what that means. hopefully it corrects so that we get 2% per level o' leadership rather than simply correcting the in-game description so that it matches the 1% we is actual getting. HA! Good Fun!

we don't get much juice per squeeze with the speech skills, but we can't stand missing a potential dialogue option 'cause o' insufficient points. speech skills is a priority for us. there is an ag center dialog that we missed 'cause it required a freaking smart ass of 6. *grumble* we were also surprised (a smidgen) by the fact that we appear to be having more safecrack opportunities than lockpick. is not a huge disparity, but is noticeable. the occasional minefield and plethora o' disarm opportunities has, so far, made demolitions the clear Win skill insofar as xp rewards is concerned. and while alarm disarm were a poor skill choice for ag center (slight better for our highpool run), it has gotten progressive better henceforth. regardless, it seems obvious to us that skill choice is more meaningful than than the charisma bonus. the number o' charisma points you need to makes the xp boost meaningful is prohibitive. what relegates the charisma boost to utter uselessness is that level boost benefits develop late in the game, when those extra skill points and con points is less important. is same reason why it is stoopid to boost intelligence late. haven't played since we finished az, but at level 25/26, we is already seeing that we is soon gonna be running out of meaningful uses for skill points. every skill point is golden at level 4... at level 40 we suspect we will have more than a few unused points... or we will be throwing points into barter. proviso: if we could imagine high charisma brawler build into existence, that might be a tiny bit different as brawlers get meaningful combat boosts from their levels. aside: the monocle enoch mentioned earlier is a bug/quirk that has been around for awhile, but we only ever found one character type that genuine got use from it: the blunt weapons melee ranger. the ci cost is extreme, so we can't envision giving the trinket to a brawler who only attacks opponents in the narrow corridor direct in front o' his/her self. pretty much any ranged character is hurt more than is helped by the monocle. on the other hand, a blunt weapon expert can attack diagonal, which turns the monocle wearing blunt weapons ranger into the 300 at thermopylae. slight hyperbole? nevertheless, put your blunt basher in a defensive position and watch folks try and get past him. is amusing. HA! Good Fun!

you are insane. 1.5 levels disparity is gained when giving a high yield skill AND allocating 6-7 more attribute points into charisma? and you do not see that as useless? who would make that trade? would anybody dump 6-7 additional points into charisma to gain 1.5 extra levels after every 30 levels gained? you is bug nut crazy if that is what you is selling. charisma modifies two features: 1) it boosts area of effect on the accuracy bonus for leadership (snort) and, 2) it gives a small xp bonus that is ultimately insignificant w/o giving your charisma jockey a high use skill. am thinking we not need try very hard to get a consensus on the uselessness o' your suggestion. we know for a fact that a 2 point charisma difference is not enough to bridge the xp gulf between a player with leadership, hard arse and shotguns v. any build with frequent use skills that provide individual xp gains. however, for the sake of argument, let us call it a call it a given that for every 6 additional charisma points you give to a ranger, you will see an additional level earned every 25 levels. this is an extreme generous given based on your example. now, who in their right freaking mind would suggest that 6 points placed into charisma, an otherwise useless attribute, would be gaining usefulness 'cause o' the 1.5 skill level payoff you describe? possibly vol. congrats. ... amazing. you didn't think the 6-7 additional points you dumped into charisma were worth noting, but you have the temerity to call us evasive? you suggest that 6-7 points o' otherwise wasted charisma is a useful spending of attribute points when the pay-off, when coupled with a high-output skill, is 1.5 additional leveling opportunities after THIRTY leveling opportunities? and you call us obtuse? you want screenies? HA! scroll back up and read your own posts. your suspicion was stated quite effective. why on earth would we bother with screenies or youtube when you made it clear that you "can only go off my gameplay." HA Good Fun! ps we see you didn't respond to our observation about how your leader's lagging combat efficacy hurt your argument. evasive?

in a previous post you expressed that you would be dubious about claims even if they included screenies, so try to go easy on the hypocrisy... and there is no freaking need to respond further now that you has indeed provided the details we asked you to provide. you is comparing an 8 charisma character to characters with 1s and 2s in charisma? after 30 levels you end up with 1 level o' disparity with a seven point charisma gap? you is freaking proving our point about the uselessness o' charisma without realizing it. and providing kill totals for your leader in the context o' xp is only useful to further undercut your argument. combat xp is the one kinda xp that is divided evenly regardless o' the contributions you make in combat. we will let you puzzle out the why. *snort* HA! Good Fun!

4 skills. Alarm disarm, Kiss ass, Leadership and Assault Rifles. Alarm disarm is something that wasn't fully utilised in the first half of the game and only really comes into play in LA. Kiss Ass is not that much different to all the other dialogue skills. Leadership doesn't grant xp so it's a background skill. Assault Rifles is the last skill I took with my Leader. And that's it. No other skills at all. So all I can take from that is the reason why he's higher than everybody else is the bonus xp from Charisma. And if you want to wonder about developers creating dump stats, you have to look no further than this board you're posting on and the Pillars of Eternity feedback with characters having two dump stats. Especially ranged characters. *sigh* first, poe is not analogous. luck and charisma is dump stats for any and all characters in wasteland 2. second, you still ain't providing feedback.... is much like your anecdotal ar examples that is based on one encounter wherein you use headshot poorly and make sweeping generalizations based on the outcome. you indicated that your rangers who is lagging a whopping 1/2 to 1 level behind is having basement charisma, but you don't tell us what your leader's charisma is. btw, by the time we finished az, the characters who is getting the most xp boosting is demolitions, alarm disarm, and safe cracking... in that order... though our medic skill may be gaining. our efficacy in combat has had our medic being underutilized. regardless, we pointed out that our leader has non combat skill o' hard arse and leadership and is lagging behind rangers with charisma of three and four. your leader gots alarm, but you not seem to think this difference is meaningful? is the ad hoc skills that make the difference. chuckle. is like pulling teeth to get you to actual provide relevant details. sheesh. to cant, " Of course, when your super skilled braniac goes last every combat round because he's blind, stiff, slow, and ugly, then the combat skill points have a lot of extra lifting to do." we wanted one ranger with a 10 in int, so we made that ranger a sniper. high ap for a sniper is not all that necessary in our experience-- between seven and nine ap is more than enough. recognizing the near worthlessness o' charisma, our revised smarty sniper would look like this: co 3, lu 1, aw 7, st 1, sp 5, int 10, ch 1. start off with 8 ap and ci of 14. add one point to coordination and three to awareness, and by level 40 you got 9 ap and 17 ci. with the engagement ring trinkets, this build will be having 8 ap and a ci o' 20... and excessive skill points. oh, sure, we can build a better sniper w/o an int o' 10, but this is a viable sniper build. aside: another change we would make is that we would give our brawler (or any melee ranger) computer science from the start. sure, it would have overlap with rose, but having a bruising damage sink who is also able to disarm robots would make him more efficacious, and we suspect that he/she would gets a considerable number o' additional computer skill checks to be boosting xp. HA! Good Fun!

I'm having the opposite effect with my Leader and his levelling. When I picked up Pizepi (level 16), I was level 11. Now at level 28/29, we've caught up to her but my Leader is now ahead of every body else including Pizepi and Brother Thomas. He hit level 30 on that encounter in Santa Monica and everyone else is at the end of level 28 or mostly on level 29 including Pizepi. My leader has broken away from the pack. I wasn't really taking much notice of it until you mentioned it. It's only a small gain but now I've noticed it. Also, I kept my Charisma for the other characters pretty low. I'm at work and from memory, Magnum has like a 1 and TC with a 2. I only upped my Charisma on one character and gave him the Leadership skill. Kept everyone else quite low. without more info, your anecdote is less than enlightening. what skills does your high charisma ranger posses? as we noted above, the character we got with the charisma o' six has skills that do not get frequent use. based on our experience, a two or three point differential in charisma is less significant (far less significant) than skill choice insofar as xp gains is concerned. Gromnir is already at level 25/26, so your three additional levels is hardly a meaningful factor. high charisma is a waste. is arguable that any charisma past 1 is a waste. charisma doesn't affect leadership area of effect, and it has less impact on xp gains than does skill choice. in fact, with benefit o' game experience and some testing, we would feel confident in stating that charisma is less useful than is luck, and luck is not particular useful either. charisma is to attributes as barter is to skills. one wonders what the inxile developers were thinking when they created two dump attributes. HA! Good Fun!

why? the way leadership worked in the beta is we got a 2% accuracy boost per level, and in-game description continues to boast a +2% boost that we do not get, but that is a whole 'nother issue. if you were arguing that charisma is valuable 'cause of its impact on the leadership skill's zone o' influence, then a recognition that charisma gots zero influence on the rogue chance is serious undercutting such a stance. the charisma boost has negligible impact on experience gains (our 6 charisma ranger is leveling noticeably slower than our 4 and 3 charisma rangers 'cause his skills is leadership and hard arse; additional points in charisma don't obviate the xp disparity resulting from absence o' frequent use skills such as safe-crack and demolitions,) so am finding it hard to argue against the proposition that placing points in charisma is anything other than a gimping of a ranger... even if such gimping were unintended. aside: against both under and overpowered foes, the proximity o' the ranger with skill levels in leadership is having 0 impact on the dozen or so encounters we has run as tests o' leadership. the abandoned rail yard is ideal for such testing as we have both weak and strong opponents on the same map, and we are able to send our leader to extreme ends o' the map away from our remaining rangers. we used an old save with level 18 rangers. HA! Good Fun!

is only a brief test, but we received a "pizepi joren calmed" message multiple times on the prison map with our leader remaining at the entrance square far beyond the range of leadership accuracy boost. will test a bit more this eve. HA! Good Fun!

how odd. if enoch or many other boardies assured us that they had tested a feature from a game, we would have very little cause for suspicion. sure, is a few boardies we wouldn't trust if they told us that water is wet, but they is exceptional rather than rule. we already know that leadership skill is broken as the in-game description were/is claiming a +2% accuracy bonus per point, so it makes sense to be suspicious o' the implementation. we have no similar cause for doubting most boardies. now, enoch has stated that there is conflicting info on the issue-- is not enoch who has tested. when we has a few minutes of free time, we will test and we will share results. it will be up to you to decide whether or not believe what we share. HA! Good Fun!

The rogue chance on my recruits did go down on their character sheets and it was the same in game. At the start, Rose would lose it quite a bit. By the time I got to Canyon of Titan, she didn't go rogue at all and hasn't done so. Pizepi has a higher chance to go rogue which she always did when I picked her up and now she's okay. I can only go off my own gameplay. I really don't see one character in your seven party team with moderate CHA and Leadership as gimping your party. Also, I didn't bother about the small time you had the AK-47s. I had M16s for most of Arizona. You get access to the AK-47s at the end of Arizona and then you can get the AK-97s just after the start of LA. So I went straight to the AK-97s. am thinking you miss enoch's point. rogue chance is decreased by leadership and not specific by charisma. charisma only affects leadership by increasing that skill's area of effect. the question is whether leadership's rogue decrease has the same effective radius as its accuracy boost. enoch suggests the possibility that leadership rogue reduction effect is not having a range or area of effect as does the paltry and insignificant accuracy bonus. therefore, a character with a charisma of one but six tiers of leadership would be as effective at decreasing joinable rogue chance as would a character with a ten charisma and the same six tiers o' leadership. do experiment: have rose stand halfway across the map, clear beyond the effective range of any possible leadership accuracy boosting effect and check out her character record sheet. does rogue chance increase at some point? next, send rose out to engage combat at some distance exceeding the accuracy boost of your leader. am not certain if there is variables affecting rogue chance such as disparate levels 'tween rose and enemies or... whatever, so you likely gotta try your experiments 'gainst tough foes. maybe not. *shrug* regardless, run a combat encounter with rose at distance and wait for rose to either go rogue or to be getting feedback that your leader calmed her. am doubtful it takes more than a handful o' tries to get a rogue opportunity that is either actualized or suppressed. leadership effect range o' leadership intrigues us. we will check the next time we get an opportunity to play wasteland 2. an effective leader character with a charisma o' 1 tickles our fancy. HA! Good Fun.

am actually surprised at how effective our brawler is. yeah, we frequent have walter e. kurtz huddling in cover for an entire fight, which feels wasteful. the necessity o' boosting strength is also a handicap compared to other melee characters. and yes, given the unique manner in which brawling damage scales, we were aware that the initial levels would not be revealing particular impressive kill or damage totals for such a melee build as we have for our brawler. even so, at level 25 and having exhausted AZ, our brawler has 86 kills and has done a total o' 6450 damage. roach, our assault rifle specialist, has achieved predictably impressive kill/damage numbers: 93/10148. benjamin l. willard, the sniper in our core 4, has 122 kills and has accounted for 14237 damage. our weak link has been william b. kilgore and his shotgun. we were aware that shotguns would be a poor early choice, and kilgore is our requisite charisma /leadership monkey, but 34 kills and 2972 damage is terrible... doing it all over would have us choosing smgs for kilgore. we needs be careful with kurtz, and he is requiring significant more medical attention than our other core rangers, but we is pleasant surprised with our brawler. we do not anticipate a significant drop-off when we arrive in CA. HA! Good Fun!

yes, we were instructed to speak with her to get our weapons returned, but her only dialogue option, no many how many times or how long we waited to initiate conversation, only had an option for taking our weapons from us. this is not our first rodeo. we can recognize a bug. is a rather serious bug too, but as we said, we had a recent save so the harm were marginalized. HA! Good Fun! ps quick search reveals we ain't alone in suffering this bug. https://forums.inxile-entertainment.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=10007 however, we will note that the workaround offered in the thread we link were unnecessary for us. we simple disarmed one ranger, and sent the rest o' our group a goodly distance from the dbm entrance. somewhat surprising, we were still able to make use o' our remote party members conversation skills while speaking with the dbm leader.

had a potentially Extreme troublesome bug in titan canyon last night. we gave up our weapons to be entering the dbm bunker/outpost, but we were never given an opportunity to retrieve said weapons. is lucky that we is a compulsive saver and we had a recent save-point. experimented and figured out a relative painless workaround to our weapon wormhole. we could have one ranger divest himself o' weapons and then enter the dbm base alone. can't lose what you don't have, yes? failure to have an option to retrieve weapons is no problem if you didn't have any weapons removed. our other rangers were needing to be a goodly distance away from the base or they would have their weapons automatically sucked into some fathomless digital hell. trial and error. titan is a bit quirky with more than a couple minor bugs... nothing major other than the weapons retrieval. on the positive side, while the combat encounters is still meh, the main titan conflict were offering a tough(er) choice(s) than previous the previous quests. HA! Good Fun!

dunno. his ap is kinda horrible for most combat builds we would consider. a sniper can have relative low ap and still excel. *shrug* even so, is a quasi-rpg, so is good if other folks see different. HA! Good Fun!

when we get a chance to play again this weekend, we will be on our way to damonta. oddly enough, we had a moment o' clarity regarding ralphy immediate before we got him to level 10: he is a closet sniper. yeah, he don't have any skill levels in sniper rifles, but as he were level six (am recalling that he were level four in the beta) his poor skill choices were fixable... and we were likely to give somebody toaster repair eventually. ralphy gots low ap but good ci combined decent luck. at level 10 we boost his intelligence by one, and at 20 we will give him a 6 in speed. so by level 20, ralphy benefits from 7 ap and 12 ci in addition to potential level 8 or 9 skill in sniper rifles. am likely to boost his coordination at 30 and awareness at 40 for an eventual 8 ap and 13 ci. we ain;t a fan o' animal whisperer or toaster repair. however, we will have ralphy add one level to toaster repair via skill points and one additional level from the skill book we found. am suspecting there is a toaster repair trinket somewhere in the game. ralphy gets more than enough skill points to fill out snipers and one additional skill o' choice such as alarm disarm or mechanical repair... and if you really want animal whisperer, we suspect you can go that route too. ralphy is a surprisingly effective sniper. am not certain why we didn't see that sooner than level 10. HA! Good Fun!

... sadly, am almost certain you ain't joking. there is notable extreme attractive english women, but if the water has had an affect on your women folk, it has resulted in... well, perhaps you could google Gus Terkelsen quotes on the matter. the guy is a schmuck, but his website is successful precisely 'cause there is something in the english woman's water. HA! Good Fun! Your compulsion to look for argument, in a comment loaded with obvious levity, does you little credit. don't channel vol. we noted that we thought you were serious. if you recognize the chuckle value o' your observation, then so much the better. HA! Good Fun!

you don't understand the old skool appeal of random 1007? had less time this weekend than we hoped, but we managed to get our crew through the ag center. made a change from Predator theme to Apocalypse Now: william b. kilgore, walter e. kurtz, benjamin l. willard, and roach. is largely the same skills spread as our Predator group, but we did need to make some minor changes. for example, while we made kilgore our leader, there ain't no way we were gonna give him kiss arse. HA! Good Fun!

... sadly, am almost certain you ain't joking. there is notable extreme attractive english women, but if the water has had an affect on your women folk, it has resulted in... well, perhaps you could google Gus Terkelsen quotes on the matter. the guy is a schmuck, but his website is successful precisely 'cause there is something in the english woman's water. HA! Good Fun!

am gonna finally give wasteland 2 another try. the recent patch(es) appear to have addressed a few o' our concerns and problems. our game time has been extreme limited these past few weeks, so we couldn't have played regardless. am gonna be optimistic and try and get a marathon session in this weekend. our four rangers will be inspired by Predator characters: dutch, dillon, billy and hawkins. am expecting that we will acquire rose asap, and pizepi is a likely addition. ralphy, with his 7 ap and int o' 3 sets our teeth on edge 'cause we know we can make him useful (moderately so) by level 30, but waiting 26 levels before he becomes anything other than a toaster repairman strikes us as a sisyphean ordeal. billy (ap 9, ci 12) should be bladed and ar, but blades lag behind brawling and blunt. for now, billy has assault rifles for a weapon, with perception and demolitions... am suspecting we will likely add minimal blades skill. hawkins (ap 7, ci 13) will be our sniper and smart arse, with lockpick and safe cracking as well. maybe add mechanical repair or weapon smithing as he has an intelligence of 10. dutch (ap 9, ci 12) is a shirtless brawler, with outdoorsman, hardass and brute force to be replacing angelas' skills. dillon (ap 9, ci 10) gets leadership and kiss arse, but since we loathe smgs, we give him shotguns. we foresee adding a bit o' blunt to dillon. rose (ap 8, ci 10) will be getting medic and assault rifle skills in addition to her starting compliment, and by level 20 we will have increased her speed by 2 which should address her few flaws. party charisma o' our starting four rangers = 16, so we shouldn't have problems recruiting pizepi. am gonna see how quick we can get her in our party. dunno. there is a few skills we don't have worked into the mix... 'less we take raplhy. *groan* HA! Good Fun!

dunno, we got characters on both harbinger and jedi covenant, and as long as we is dedicated to taking every fp pop, no matter how convenient the timing would seem to be for advancing our story line, we typical stay geared. 'course we also have a ridiculous number o' 55s and we can always craft the occasional mod, barrel or hilt. hell, am pretty sure you can buy mods and gear relative cheap in the lower levels if you have one or two 55s with even a decent amount of creds saved. the only pve server we don't have characters is shadowlands. if you ever want help on harbinger or covenant, let us know. HA! Good Fun!

Which means levels 10-15. I *think* you may find it hard if you are on the wrong server at the wrong time of day or if every man and his hamster is busy levelling alts, in which case they don't bother with flashpoints at the moment. Heck, even the L55 HM"s has noticeable longer queue times after the 12x xp event started. Lots of people playing class stories and nothing else, leveling up as many alts as fast as possible. is so many inexplicable variables with why/when flashpoints is gonna be available. the first fps don't even have a tank + heals requirement, so lowbie black talon and esseles don't run into that problem-- we has had bt and esseles pop with all dps. we have waited literal hours for a *groan* colicoid war game fp. then, when we finally get a pop, we will be able to run five in a row... five soul-numbing and gut wrenching runs o' colicoid that result in at least one or two predictable complete fails. colicoid and red reaper is our least favorite fp as it is soooo easy to get Death By Stupidity/Willful Ignorance with those two. mando raiders and the final battle o' hammer station are also frequent frustration magnets. one time having to wait 1.5 hours for esseles? is no biggie, 'cause you are leveling so fast early that chances are you is ready to do hammer station by the time you finish courscant... and you can solo the h2 heroic on courscant for a moddable chestpiece and you likely can buy a moddable weapon with comms... which is what you is likely wanting from esseles anyway. HA! Good Fun!

Why Kanye West? nietzsche's "god is dead" is frequent misunderstood. nevertheless am finding it more than a little amusing that 21st century mankind resurrected God in kanye west. if kanye west didn't already exist, we would nevertheless create one. HA! Good Fun!