Gromnir

one o' the multiclasses we has had the most fun with is a goldpact knight/priest of eothas. is clear not a powergamer build. even so, the upcoming strength/might/resolve changes will have 0 impact 'pon the build. 12,10,15,15,16,10. weapon proficiencies is flail, club and greatsword. got another paladin in the party, so lack o' an aura is not an issue. the gold coat provides +4 ar, which at the moment is pretty keen even when wearing the fine chain or scale which is available in the beta without resorting to GiveItem. firebrand is doing considerable flame/pierce damage and with the greatsword modal, sworn rival and flames o' devotion active, it produces silly crit numbers-- is a better weapon than some suggest. 'course most o' the time we dual wield the summoned flail and a fine club. chunk. chunk. chunk. ... folks telling us the hybrid classes and ciphers "can't do the job," or other such nonsense is being ridiculous. melee combat numbers we got back from our templar is easily the best in a party o' a votary, skald, vanilla mage and vanilla priest... and is not a little bit better. with the club and flail modals, we can choose to lower will or reflex saves by 25 at our discretion... comes in mighty handy if we wanna use an empowered divine mark. priests typical have numerous spells which target will, but the priest o' eothas is gonna be getting more fire spells in the next build, fire spells which often target reflex. as such, even w/o considering damage output, the weapon choices come in handy. drawback: maintaining the devotions would be a bit o' a challenge in a real game. try and maximize rational, stoic, honest and benevolent all at the same time will take effort. we would much prefer a classless system. even so, am thinking folks is getting 'caught up in the math they see on the message boards w/o bothering to see the actual math in the combat logs. obsidian has provided more viable options than most is aware. and beyond the math, many 'o the s'posed gimped and crippled builds is not only highly effective, but fun. with our numerous tested templars and contemplatives we can play characters who is not only potent in weapon combat, but they is effective affliction killers and buffers... with the frequent empowered damage spell thrown into the mix for funsies. HA! Good Fun!

and fine by Gromnir... if you end where we did. we would prefer to keep universal so summoned weapons would benefit from weapon styles talents and potential from weapon focus, and we see no need to make blights a particular weapon type. but if name change is important, it don't bother us. HA! Good Fun!

no contest honorable mentions warning: south park sweary HA! Good Fun! ps we limited to "songs," so numerous musical compositions were excluded from consideration.

disagree. the entire point o' devoted is you get big advantages with One weapon type. should be disadvantages for using other weapons. universal and soulbound shouldn't be a complete and obvious nullification o' devoted drawbacks. am suspecting, once devoted is fixed, most folks choosing the devoted subclass is gonna opt for a weapon with multiple damage types. sword does slash and pierce. warhammer does crush and pierce. choose a devoted weapon which only does one kinda damage type is gonna be quite painful when facing a foe with immunity or particular high armour vs. ______. such a result is as it should be. devoted benefits is big, so penalty should hurt. a soulbound or summoned weapon which do not provide devoted penetration bonus but nevertheless suppresses devoted accuracy penalty will still be o' great value to the devoted. strikes us as good balancing. HA! Good Fun!

am gonna disagree 'bout making the devoted proficient with all universal/soulbound weapons. at the same time, we believe the devoted's penalties for not being proficient should be suppressed when using a universal weapon. should work similar for priests and mages with summoned weapons. if bob the devoted/barbarian finds The Morningstar Of Ultimate Doom, a soulbound weapon, and equips it, he should get the benefits o' appropriate weapon talents w/o gaining the actual proficiency. can't use the morningstar to reduce fort saves, but bob shouldn't face the penalty for use 'cause his devoted weapon is the sabre. also, am thinking bob shouldn't gain the devoted's penetration bonuses for using proficient weapons when using the soulbound morningstar. however, as with poe, weapon focus and other weapon talents should apply when appropriate. if bob took one hand weapon style, it shouldn't apply to the soulbound morningstar. converse, perhaps it would be appropriate to have bob's weapon focus talent for proficient weapons apply to universal/soulbound... is kinda a grey area. regardless, am thinking, at the very least, devoted penalties for non-proficient weapon use should be suppressed. the benefits o' the devoted is excessive if they is applied to a wide range o' weapons, including all universals. however, the developers is kinda working 'gainst the purpose o' soulbounds and universals if one need proficiency to get advantage to their use. am thinking priestly and wizard summons for non devoted should work similar to what we suggested 'bove for devoted. don't provide the proficiency modal, but allow appropriate weapon talents to apply. a fighter/wizard or barbarian/wizard is likely to have weapon talents. apply such talents where appropriate, but do not provide the proficiency modal. but again, in spite o' the response from obsidian in this thread, am most curious to know how universal/soulbounds were intended to function in deadfire. HA! Good Fun!

many of the current possible beta builds is extreme potent, but almost invariably, the efficacious builds is so potent 'cause o' weapon damage. the deadfire penetration scheme is limiting, but not difficult to overcome with the correct weapon and ability choices. offensive casters, however, have long cast/recovery times and far fewer options for overcoming penetration than do weapon users. ... is gonna be... interesting. tough to make casters more vital w/o creating possibilities for even less balanced weapon user builds. HA! Good Fun!

has possibly already been mentioned, but we did not find via search... benefits from sworn rival and sworn enemy stack. sworn rival benefits should replace sworn enemy bonuses, but is instead being added. have only checked with a fanatic (vanilla barbarian/kind wayfarer) but sworn rival accuracy and damage bonuses is effective doubled. was gonna post a screenshot, but we got a ctd. if this is an unknown bug, we will create a screenshot. HA! Good Fun!

Giving any character base Intelligence resistance probably isn't going to happen, because it would make Berserker the most overpowered thing imaginable. Do I want a huge amout of extra Mig and Con with nearly no appreciable downsides? Why yes, I think I do. Yeah, and if you give anyone Per resist then the blunderbuss becomes amazing. Oh well I'm out of ideas berserker/wizard is already kinda cheese at the moment as infuse with vital essence has a long duration. base 40 seconds for smart And fit? create a wood elf or wild orlan berserker/wizard and frenzy while under the influence o' infuse with vital essence... and as almost every Gromnir party has a priest casting dire blessing at the start o' combat, got all but one stat affliction covered. so a strong and immune-to-almost-everything build which is enjoying over-the-top penetration and a goodly assortment o' armour/deflection buffing spells? HA! Good Fun!

Great suggestion Gromnir! I totally forgot about that feature. How could I? This would really be a very useful addition to the game. Let's beat the big drum for this! Maybe also put it into the backer beta feedback/discussion? feel free to repost or alter as you see fit. Gromnir has no sense o' proprietorship regarding ideas which might improve the game. a better game is all we want. HA! Good Fun!

kinda an aside, but am thinking trap detection issues may be less significant than they seem. our mercenary party is not well geared compared to a similar level'd poe party. am not saying deadfire will have same 1007 progression as poe, but is reasonable to assume analogous gearing. resting bonuses is not active and food choices is also limited. 'tween resting bonuses, food and gear, am doubting a 16 perception check for traps will be any real challenge for the typical level 6-8 deadfire party. *shrug* am thinking trap detection balance is current misleading. HA! Good Fun!

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/94650-devoted-and-universal-weapons/?p=1954036 have tried to get developer response a couple times in a couple different threads. HA! Good Fun!

am not sure 'bout other folks, but am spending much time creating custom parties. the thing is, we do frequent replicate previously generated builds. is a vanilla priest and a vanilla wizard we have utilized in better than 1/2 parties we created. is a skald (no multi-class) which gets use in 'bout 33% of custom parties. etc. am not certain how tough it would be for obsidian to add, but would be convenient if we could save at least a limited number o' adventurer profiles so we would not need recreate each hireling from scratch. might seem like a little thing... well, it is a little thing. even so... HA! Good Fun!

That's what I don't understand about this change. It was made so resolve wouldn't be such a huge dump stat and be more useful to more characters. So we turn might/strength into an even bigger dump stat than resolve was for anyone who relies on spells or healing? This is what was so annoying about the original Eternity Beta and why I didn't play it much. There were no subtle fixes, everything was the shotgun overcompensate approach, then slowly step it back, sometimes it never got stepped back enough. What's most hilarious about this, is now Con is actually more desirable for a caster than might/strength. well, keeping the classes more insular and discrete will allow for limited corrections. however, the issue with resolve were a general problem facing most players. were gonna require a broad stroke. karkarov does identify the new problem insofar as strength and casters is concerned. pure casters has flipped one dump stat for another. not a fix at all for such folks. however, the stat issue being addressed were resolve's negligible use to more than casters, yes? other than tanks, any poe build could use resolve as a dump stat. the change to deadfire resolve gives the stat vitality to many additional builds. at the same time, a large number o' deadfire builds is continuing to depend 'pon strength, including a goodly number o' wizards, priests and druids. in another thread we mentioned a helwalker/sage build which is doing impressive damage precise 'cause even at level 1 the player is able to achieve +35 strength. yeah, casters flip might for resolve and only real difference is they need be more aware o' fort saves. paladin tanks is gonna see considerable gains to their non-weapon powhaz, as if they needed a boost. even so, the dynamic has changed considerable for a large number o' other builds. was an endemic issue. needed a blanket fix. btw, am not saying obsidian's solution is what we woulda' done or even that we like the change, but the reason for the change makes sense. am gonna give the new build a try and see how it plays. HA! Good Fun! ps am not a balancing expert or anything o' the sort, but one can see from our default stat spread which we included in this thread, we ain't an optimizer. am nevertheless enjoying considerable success in the deadfire beta regardless o' penetration issues and bugs... and not the beetle kinda insect/bugs which made the poe beta a nightmare for a bit. for all the current issues which is needing work, deadfire is less unbalanced/overwhelming than were poe at a similar stage. even so, am recognizing we got many hours o' poe experience, so am not coming into the game as a dewy-eyed innocent circa summer 2014. situations is not complete analogous.

^This^ Well except that I'd make an Orlan from Aedyr who'd have a 2 Strength and a 20 Resolve. At low levels you might be autoattacking with a Wizard but as you gain levels you gain a lot of spells. At level nine, which is not exactly high level, you get nine spell casts - two 1st level, two 2nd level, two 3rd level, two 4th level and one 5th level. You get these for every encounter. It will be few encounters that see you go Winchester on spells and I don't see how higher levels and more spells will lead to a different situation. well, you might wanna choose mountain dwarf or coastal aumaua instead, 'causes chances are your fort saves, which come up frequent in poe and the deadfire beta, is gonna be abysmal... although the link 'tween afflictions and saves is not direct. for example, may need to make a fort save 'gainst a poison or suffer a perception or dex affliction. am suspecting obsidian is gonna be getting feedback 'bout how lethal is some enemies and afflictions just as happened with mind zorkers in poe. "what the hell is wrong with obsidian? i get grazed by a fampyr or dank spore and it's a near certain party wipe. this needs to be fixed!" "my will save? what does that matter? my high strength and 3 resolve naked-and-wielding-an-exceptional-estoc-rogue gets grazed by domination or charm and promptly kills all the casters in my party, and then eder 2-shot auto attacks the rogue and everybody but the tank is dead. fix this." HA! Good Fun!

reposting: not a bug per se (or is it?) but is there a reason holy meditation has only a ten second duration? seems a little odd given the durations o' other priestly inspirations. oversight or intentional? HA! Good Fun!

prone were nerfed, but pull works great. too bad our multiclass unbroken beta tanks can't get the improved version o' pull... lower the guard or somesuch? does crush damage, can pull outta or into aoe, interrupts, dazes (which also lowers foe ap by 5) and also reduces foe ar by TEN. HA! Good Fun! ps am thinking we misunderstand afflictions or had a bug, 'cause our wood elf monk, suffering no other afflictions, were paralyzed. were thinking paralysis were the 3rd tier o' dex afflictions. a wood elf would at worst gets immobilized, yes? hobbled<immobilized<paralyzed, correct? wily step lowers paralysis to immobilized, no?

in the recent twitch, josh did mention obsidian were specific addressing the cast times o' a few priest spells, particular given how such spells is intended, in part, to counter afflictions. may not get lengthening o' duration for all such spells, but we expect reduced cast times for at least a few inspirations/protections. even so, holy meditation strikes us as a particular outlier insofar as durations is concerned. HA! Good Fun!

not a bug per se, but is there a reason holy meditation has only a ten second duration? seems a little odd given the durations o' other priestly inspirations. HA! Good Fun!

nice list. ours would have much in common, but would definite include high noon and the wild bunch. HA! Good Fun!

in-n-out appears to be coming to colorado. https://www.foodbeast.com/news/in-n-out-colorado/ a reason to visit colorado again... well, other than the scenic vistas and excellent outdoor sports. ... will probable wait for an in-n-out to open. HA! Good Fun!

general observation: whatever else deadfire fails at, a lack o' synergies is not one o' them. monks, in particular, is providing a dizzying array o' possibilities... particular with shattered pillar and helwaker subclasses. the lack o' unarmed proficiency is understandable given how borderline op a few monk builds is already. a helwalker sage who takes eldritch aim, infuse with vital essence, mirrored image, and eventual takes stuff such as ironskin, llengraths safeguard and citzal's(sp?) spirit lance is gonna be an absolute dps terror on the battlefield. converse, a paladin or unbroken fighter combined with shattered pillar is having amazing potential as an off-tank or even main tank. in addition to the 'bove, have personal combined and tested monks with rogue, barbarian and cipher as well as our personal most tested multiclass: the contemplative. am thinking folks has not had enough time to realize just how many options deadfire makes possible, which makes sense given how little time the relative small number of beta testers has actual had with deadfire. too many conclusions. HA! Good Fun!

from our pov, the removal o' grazes woulda' done as you suggest, but grazes weren't removed... not really. am not certain game would be better w/o grazes, but would be cleaner. however, the reality is you current have deadfire grazes even w/o the forthcoming beta build changes. fighters, for example, may choose to add graze capability via talents, and casting of dire blessing by a priest gives everybody affected by the buff graze capability. 'course the reason why dire blessing is so useful at the moment is exact why it were removed. grazes for most weapon users adds damage, but nothing game changing. on the other hand, a party caster affected by dire blessing gets his/her grazes back too, and serious debilitating afflictions do graze. six seconds o' graze domination or petrification or whatnot is nevertheless quite powerful when the alternative is a complete miss. return grazes and that means enemies with their own hard cc and afflictions is gonna once again be serious trouble for a party. stun-locked party? yeah, the afflictions mechanic, once folks figure out how to use it, will help prevent the pain o' enemy hard cc/affliction grazes. longer cast times also means now useful interrupts will be vital. mechanics is evolving. nevertheless, the pivotal complaint which caused the removal o' grazes would seem to be in danger o' making a return... which is why we asked josh the question. obsidian is aware o' the problems. were our main concern. HA! Good Fun!

fixed well, anticipatory fix. the strength and resolve change is gonna alter who benefits most from athletics. is kinda the reverse (but not really) o' the muscle wizard complaints. the builds gaining most benefit from athletics will be casters... and tanks. high resolve is gonna see most benefit. 'course, a caster with 1 athletics and high resolve will get far less use from second wind than a barbarian with high strength and 10 points in athletics. could be josh's personal biases as a skinny cyclist impacting game mechanics? am kidding. even so, second wind will be a heal effect as 'posed to weapon damage. as such one presumes the chief beneficiaries o' heightened athletics will be wizards, and priests and tanks. HA! Good Fun! edit: am gonna note how w/o the inherent skill bonuses for classes, the idea o' providing skill boosts for stats bothers us far less. a high perception wizard is perfect viable, so turning your wizard into the party mechanic is not difficult to imagine. heck, with the new strength attribute, perhaps athletics gets tied to strength and thus your melee wizard builds will get a boost to help compensate for the switch of healing effects bonuses from might to resolve. is easy enough to come up with builds for any class which will be effective and are able to utilize a wide array o' stat distributions... regardless o' what one reads in a few other threads. however, the inherent class bonuses result in a kinda double-whammy against customization. if we make a cipher and don't want a rogue in our party, chances are we is gonna use the cipher for mechanics, which with your suggested stat based skill modifiers encourages us to put points in perception. even so, 'cause o' the wide range o' possible stats any class might benefit from in deadfire, we would be far more willing to embrace the stats based skill modifier idea if we didn't already have anachronistic class-based skill modifiers.

will be interesting to see how grazes is returned, 'cause the "hard cc" issue would obvious remain if all that is done is changing the window of opportunity for those grazes. HA! Good Fun!

And I'm the opposite. Muscle wizards are a cool aspect of how the PoE world works. I'd be sad to see them go. we like might as it is. we don't like resolve as it is. given our preferred character type is melee capable casters, the change should have a particular deleterious impact 'pon us. have almost a dozen variations o' helwalker/caster we were testing. helwalker/priest of eothas clear ain't a powergamer build, but the might build made for both admirable weapon damage and extreme impressive heals. the change to strength serious borks much o' the build flexibility... or it would if Gromnir were worried 'bout extreme optimization. 15,10,10,13,16,14 the change has us likely flipping resolve and might/strength scores 14,10,10,13,16,15 or perhaps 10,10,10,15,17,16 even four or five points o' might/strength, when viewed from perspective of a geared mid or high level character, is significant, but hardly game altering. *shrug* as a player who don't optimize much and who has nevertheless completed numerous potd runs with the obsidian companions as 'posed to created hirelings, am believing poe character capabilities is far less a matter o' starting stats than it is 'bout power and talent choices... and gear. poe saw a few changes to stats. recall the functional halving o' the deflection bonus for resolve after release? *chuckle* the collective howl o' fandom were inspiring. shakespeare would be proud. most likely don't recall all the crippling stat changes from poe. a week or month will make this change equal forgettable... and it does help resolve. is also gonna be more changes, so is probable best to wait and see how the next release actual plays, 'cause resolve ain't being changed in a vacuum. HA! Good Fun!