metadigital

Well, strictly speaking there are a couple of religions that are baesd on cruelty, for example there are the Kali worshippers (who gave their name to our English word "Thug" -- that was for your benefit, FaramirK ). I think they believed that each life they took gave them more kudos with Kali nd a better re-incarnation.

And let's all lobby for a new William Gibson-inspired / Sci-Fi / Deus Ex RPG sequel! (w00t)

Overpowered :S I don't even recall my FP dropping when I used it... By the end of the game, I swear I had infinite FP. :S <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep, (depending on Force forms) I used LS Stasis and Force Wave with almost no cost. Game was too esay.

No, unfortunately, the game is pretty well toddler easy (pointless difficulty setting notwithstanding) except for the ocassional end-boss battle (which are moderately easy). And yes, my first game I chose Guardian (as it was the recommended first choice) and Jedi Master.

Relativistic morals are indicative of chaotic alignment. I would have thought that the Jedi Council were more monastic and therefore Lawful and even Good.

Yes.

We had to get up in the morning, half an hour before we went to bed, lick the school clean wi' tongue, write out the entire King James Bible then run around the entire country for fitness work, then go home an our dads and our mothers would kill us and dance about on our graves singing halleluya. and we had Four Yorkshiremen as neighbours. I went to a university with one of the first computers in the world, and it still had a (albeit non-functioning) punch card reader interface. Naturally we used more modern computers, but I remember when disks were floppy (even the old PDP11 11 inch disks!). Bloody Moore's Law makes my age seem like dog years ...

It hasn't been mentioned that these images that are commonly associated with Jesus are completely wrong. Jesus (assuming he exists, see Way Off Topic) was a jew from the Middle East in the Palestinian region, so he would have swarthy skin, dark hair and brown eyes. But that is not really for this topic, either. " Hugh Laurie wishes he was Stephen Fry.

Contrarily, you might be exposed to more useful and interesting styles in an art class. I've never been in an art class where they insisted I use a particular style once it had been learnt. Though I didn't follow art through though, chose Maths 1,2 Physics, Chem etc so I might not be an expert :"> ... BTW: Kyla you are very talented and perhaps you have even pursuaded me to get out my crayons and get drawing.

:D "History is written by the victors."

Forgiveness doesn't measure the size of the infraction. Forgiveness (when done properly, and this requires commitment from the criminal and the victims) enhances both parties and gives them a rejuvenating effect. Punishment is a different kettle of fish. You can go prehistoric: for every wrong, pay back double; or biblical: an eye for an eye (and not two eyes for an eye), or modern (deprivation of liberty or, in some backward societies ( " ), the death penalty). What might be more interesting to discuss is state sanctioned torture. I don't mean to be flippant; either. I would never make light of those poor people who have suffered under disgusting despotic governments. I am talking about the legitimate, codified, use of torture on known criminals. For example, I heard recently that a self-confessed hostage-taker was threatened with torture when he refused to divulge the location of the hostage. He soon changed his mind when he was threatened with torture. This obviously would only be possible with extreme cases with people of known, demonstrable and proven guilt. (Cloris, before you ask ( :D ), I think the country was Germany -- I beleive that torture is a state instrument in Jordan.) For an historical perpective, England did have a policy a couple of hundred years ago, but dispensed with it (shortly after the Hundred Years' war, I think) whereas France was contraversially using torture during the Algerian crisis late last century (the General in charge recently wrote about it in a book that made him persona non grata with a bullet). And, of course, the US is currently exploring the boundaries of mental torture with the "Enemy Combatants".

I really like asides: so what is the name/date of the battle you're referring to above? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I knew I'd be called on it. I honestly can't remember (it was years ago I saw/read it), I would estimate it was before Henry V, but even that is just an educated guess. (Henry V did conduct a lot of bloodthirsty battles in France.) I know it ushered in a new era of post-chivalry, because (naturally enough) everyone else stopped being chivalrous back.

Just another quick point -- my LS Revan gave Malak to chance to redeem himslef before the big battle. But we are really talking about ethical combat -- as in chivalry. I am aware FSs don't ordinarily lose control of the lightsabers (well, Bastilla did in KotOR1 ) it was just a thought experiment. Theoretically, the honourably Jedi should give the worthy oponent the opportunity to defend themselves with their weapon. Theoretically, LS Jedi should not kill everyone they oppose. A quick stasis and disarm/disable them then send them off for "re-education". Mortal combat should result in DS points. Otherwise Paladins are no more lawful than Rangers or Blackguards.

They do. And they are probably the ones fragging your arse, too. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is a popular myth. Everyone wants "girls who can frag your ass" to exist, but in reality they don't. Unless you're actually considering those 0.001% to be a vital part of the demographics.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I love your use of quantified statistics. Gives me hope for the human race. Do you know that females have a smaller brain (volumetric capacity and by weight)? Thus we can extrapolate that they are less intelligent, too. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Is the size of the brain the size of the mind? ...Of course, women are not intellectually inferior to men, but there might be other reasons women don't frag as well as men. One reason might be they don't enjoy and therefore don't play the damned games. If I could just get my wife to play computer games with me, my life would be complete. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As brains function according to the endocrine soup created by the millions of chemicals secreted in the brain tissues (the brain is basically hollow) and by the glandular system, it is quite feasible that we think with our whole body. (Certainly the spine is an extension of brain, where reflexes from, say, the knee tap -- made famous in all those bugs bunny cartoons -- is controlled, for increased speed presumably, from the base of the spine and not the depths of the skull.) This still leaves the average woman with a lower body mass, so they are still arguably less intelligent by that -- obviously false -- measure. And this totally ignores the metaphorical metaphysical aspects of the mind ... (Remember that there are female fighter pilots.)

I just wonder if the Whale Gods of Vengence are going to come hunting us ... I saw a National Geographic documentary reconstruction of some murdered porpoises. They did some extensive forensics and matched with some existing film (co-incidence) and discovered that there were some larger dolphins, who share the habitat, had killed the smaller porpoises. They then decided that the best explanation for the seemingly random killings of the four foot long smaller cousins was because they matched the size of some predatory fish that attacked the larger dolphins young. Further, the evidence suggested that these larger dolphins were simply picking the smaller dolphins for target practice, and killing them in a brutally painful way. (The teeth marks from the larger dolphins showed that the smaller dolphins were grabbed around the head and their tissues literally shaken off their spines.) They left the audience to make their own conclusions. So bullying and murder are not just a human social disease.

It all depends how you define communism, I see it as an idea made by people who were very very unrealistic and I dare say stupid, a bunch of utopistic fools who tryed to undo the damage made by aristocracy to the people and especially to the working class, then they tryed to arrange a society based on a fiction that everybody would be fair and honest - because that would be the only way it could function - one word - utopia. Then in communism, the unevitable happened, the aristocracy was replaced by the head people of the rulling communist party......and they were supposed to bring equality to all the people......one thing they did bring it is equality in poverty and represion of all basic rights of an individual because in communism the individual is subordinate to the society....and I can go on and on and on.....and if I continue I'm going to be sick... ....talking about the brainwashed people called the communist who, just behind the nazi, done more harm to mankind then all the sickness in the world put together..... And that's excatly what communism is - A GIANT BLOOD-SUCKING PARASITE who feeds on people's desire for a just society and then decieves them with it's unrighteousness and corruption which is bigger then one in feudal system.....and that is excatly what communism is - THE BIGGEST DECEPTION IN WORLD HISTORY. And to your post when you say China is much more closer to communism then CCCP was......what the hell are you saying, in the communist manifest all forms of religion are banned.......in China there is private property......in communism it is strictly forbidden - that's what communism is all about, there is no private sector, everything is in the property of the country and the "people" - read in the property of the communist party.......so China is now begging to be much closer to capitalism so it can prosper in the economic sense. And to your claim that in China there is more and more religous freedom ....... tell it to the Chinese muslims in the west China who are , under the claim of war on terrorism, being imprisoned and killed......all we see in the media about China is the east China on the coast where all the biggest towns are situated - and that is only 300 milion Chinese, we know little about those 800 milion poor in the mainland - there you have it.....communism - equality. justice.....yeah right.. <_< <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep, no arguments about the inability of people to implement communism because it is an ideal, an impossible utopian dream that does nothing to keep the human foibles in check. I was more thinking of the Maa-Tse Tung type communism, not the Deng post-Hong Kong communism. The current Chinese hybrid speaks more about their indominable zeitgeist than anything about communism. I wasn't speaking from authority about Chinese religious tolerance, but I do note that there are Chinese Christians and Buddhists that seem to be okay (but anyone from China can correct me at anytime) -- unless you happen to be Tibetan... :ph34r: Yeah, communism doesn't work, but then again Lenin was a middle class bourgeoisie just shaking the tree to remove those above and climb it himself, so it was just a cynical political manoeuver that was exploited by a ruthless psychopath in the form of Stalin -- who actually killed more Russians than Hitler.

I agree with Steve, the only requirement is a cogent story written by a talented team that I can identify with and care about. The protagonist is not so important. I don't see much more to be explored in Revan, though there is a plot left dangling and I'd be happy to play that at least in part (see below). And I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop with the Exile, though as that story was (to me) so poor in helping me empathise and care about the characters, I don't really mind if I only hear about the Exile in a bar room conversation. It is possible that there might be a multiple-aspect plot, where we play more that one PC diring the game. This has been done a few times with varing degrees of success (even in KotOR2, with the Dxun temple). it can easily fall flat if not handled properly (Lara Croft and the Angel of Darkness).

I was not trying to insult you as a homophobe, so I apologise for any unintended insult: I was merely cautioning you against incidental and unintentional bias. I agree that children need good role models and (failing that) strident warnings of the consequences of poor choices. The "clear traditional role models" can be provided from close relatives. In fact, current research shows that during the rebellion of early teenage, a boy will look to an uncle or someone else (other than the father). I will concede that in the formative years (up to seven) a great deal of care is needed. A homosexual couple will adopt different roles and the child will be free -- possibly freer than under "normal" conditions -- but we need more research to know for sure. I think that is one thing we can agree on. Following that definition, a parent who spent no time with their children but had plenty of resources to ensure their welfare would be a good parent. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not necessarily; financial support, though advisable, is not the only precondition to happiness. A loving parental relationship is more important, because (except in the case of crushing poverty) a well balanced individual is more capable of a prosperous life than a emotionally scarred rich one. You are misinterpreting me. Another flawed analogy. Medications are tested on a wide variety of animals, ranging from rats to chimpanzees, before it's safe to test them on human beings. And, at any rate, those upon which the medications are tested are adult, willing individuals. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wasn't saying that the methodology for drug testing was deficient. I was saying that this line of logic conveniently ([/sarcasm]) prevents homosexuals from raising children until they can prove above and beyond any "normal" hetrosexual couple that they will harm children less. A rather blatant attempt to induce a logical fallacy. For starters, I have never denied that. And while many heterosexual parents are poor parents, the opposite isn't necessarily true. So, your point is? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was making the point that gender is an insufficient yardstick for competence in child-rearing. A stable, long term relationship has a much larger correlation than even money. Hildegard, the point Drakron made was that the form of communism employed in the Soviet state was not true communism. If anything, the Chinese have made a much better attempt at it than anyone else. And there is freedom of religion in China, if I'm not mistaken. Full blown guffaws! This is funny. Of course, I don't aspire to Godhood, but the other two sounds pretty good. ...As long as the having fun accompanies immortality. I'd hate to find out that we're all immortal but the afterlife really sucks. Disclaimer for the adoption discussion, I am adopted. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> seeking knowledge makes me happy and feel fulfilled. You do whatever floats your boat. Well, speak up Eldar! (I'm surprised you didn't mention your personal interest earlier.) Your musings are worth -- to my rough calculations -- approximately one thousand times the ruminations of those not priviledged enough to have been overtly sort after by our parents, through innumerable hurdles, rather than just almost accidentally appearing by default. "

"It's reassuring to see that despite the ignorant stance of the majority, some people haven't fully forsaken craniometry and the undeniable truth contained therein" <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or is Dark Side evil incarnate (as in the ancient Zoroastrian dualism, "evilness" being a separate cosmic substance to "goodness"): must be destroyed utterly lest it spread? But there is always scope for redemption. No, I think the question is more, if Malak dropped his lightsaber, would (LS) Revan pause to allow him to pick it up before resuming battle, or just run him through while he was defenceless? In other words: Does the end justify the means?

But the Exile , and the whole reason that Darth Nihilus -- -- is is because the Exile . So, no, Revan is < Exile, unless and until . PS Shouldn't this topic be in the Spoilers forum? At least use the {spoiler} {/spoiler} (obviously replacing the parentheses "{}" with brackets "[]") tags to hide stuff that people who haven't finished the game don't want to see.

I didn't mean repentance, or ideological shift: just concession. I look forward to your response, this is interesting! Cloris <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As a little aside (well, you knwo you want them) it was the English who commited the first wartime attrocity in the middle ages with repect to chivalry: the rules of engagement (e.g. don't kill an unarmed opponent) generally accepted in major battles (same selfish morality dilemma for small batles, though) were thrown out when the English knights saw an expedient battle tactic to wipe out an entire (teutonic) force. Back on topic: Good question, what are the Jedi battle codes (ie chivalry)? Not very often do we get to spare an opponent when playing as LS ...

... So if you were Denis Quaid you would have joined the oppressive Martian junta and kill your girlfriend and Kwato etc? Just curious ...

Um, no, I was talking more about hiring illegal immigrants so they can pay them less and screw americans out of jobs. Paying women less in the same position as their male counterparts. There've been lawsuits man, their ethics are pretty dirty. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To say nothing of their business model, attacking the mom-and-pop corner store market segment, thus putting thousands of small businesses into insolvency and forcing more ants into the faceless corporate machine ... to utilmately do battle against other faceless multi-natiional corporate conglomerates that push as much labour into developing markets, where costs (for such annoying things as health & safety and superannuation for the workforce, environmental sustainability, etc). Gotta love unbridled laisez faire capitalism.

They do. And they are probably the ones fragging your arse, too. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is a popular myth. Everyone wants "girls who can frag your ass" to exist, but in reality they don't. Unless you're actually considering those 0.001% to be a vital part of the demographics.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I love your use of quantified statistics. Gives me hope for the human race. Do you know that females have a smaller brain (volumetric capacity and by weight)? Thus we can extrapolate that they are less intelligent, too.