random evil guy Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 1. Thomas Howells, 1927 Study of 461 students showed religiously conversative students "are, in general, relatively inferior in intellectual ability." 2. Hilding Carlsojn, 1933 Study of 215 students showed that "there is a tendency for the more intelligent undergraduate to be sympathetic toward ... atheism." 3. Thomas Symington, 1935 Tested 400 young people in colleges and church groups. He reported, "there is a constant positive relation in all the groups between liberal religious thinking and mental ability...There is also a constant positive relation between liberal scores and intelligence..." 4. C. Plant and E. Minium, 1967 The more intelligent students were less religious, both before entering college and after 2 years of college. 5. Norman Poythress, 1975 Mean SATs for strongly antireligious (1148), moderately anti- religious (1119), slightly antireligious (1108), and religious (1022). there are a ton of studies like these out there and they all say the same: smart people don't believe in god... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Flatus Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Sir isaac newton was a devout christian. Albert einstein believed in god in a non conventional sense. Islamic scholars took greek maths and advanced it. Its not true that being religious precludes intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 This is gonna start o e hell of a flame war :D But Im with you, IMO, believing in god is not one bit different than believing in Santa Claus. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Flatus Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 People can have faith in what they want so long as they realise that there is the possibility (no matter how small) that they are wrong. Also they should have the wherewithal to question everything at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethCarrots Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 my science teacher has an iq of 162, which is pretty formidable. he believes in god. although he did spend like 18 months researching the bible to see if it was bull**** or not, and he came to the conclusion that it was more likely to be true than bs so thats just one more clever person who believes in god. personally i dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oerwinde Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Those studies all show averages. Which means there are dumb people and smart people in every group (unless the groups are "dumb" and "smart" then I'm pretty sure theres no smart people in the dumb group) it just means there are more smart non-religious people than smart religious people, doesn't mean all religious people are dumb and all non-religious people are smart. One of my friends seems to think he's a devout catholic... despite the pre-marital protected sex and all, and he's much smarter than me. In some areas at least. The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diogo Ribeiro Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Smart people don't believe in god... :D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> God doesn't believe in smart people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Flatus Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 thats why all his followers are stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveThaiBinh Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 1. Thomas Howells, 1927 Study of 461 students showed religiously conversative students "are, in general, relatively inferior in intellectual ability." 2. Hilding Carlsojn, 1933 Study of 215 students showed that "there is a tendency for the more intelligent undergraduate to be sympathetic toward ... atheism." 3. Thomas Symington, 1935 Tested 400 young people in colleges and church groups. He reported, "there is a constant positive relation in all the groups between liberal religious thinking and mental ability...There is also a constant positive relation between liberal scores and intelligence..." 4. C. Plant and E. Minium, 1967 The more intelligent students were less religious, both before entering college and after 2 years of college. 5. Norman Poythress, 1975 Mean SATs for strongly antireligious (1148), moderately anti- religious (1119), slightly antireligious (1108), and religious (1022). there are a ton of studies like these out there and they all say the same: smart people don't believe in god... :D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Some of these studies are quite old and use relatively small samples. Even if they are true in the contexts in which they occurred, it would be dangerous to generalise. Were the studies all conducted in one country? Does it refer to only one religion, or were several included? Are SATs a reliable measure of IQ? Is IQ a reliable measure of intelligence? You need to do a bit more to persuade me that these aren't a handful of rather dated and unreliable studies with little to tell us. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 "Also, it's a proven fact that Catholics have a substantially smaller cranium, which obviously leads to the conclusion that they are an inferior race." - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 there are a ton of studies like these out there and they all say the same: smart people don't believe in god... :D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> they're all probably bogus, too. these are studies that are normally run by people with agendas. probably done by the same kind of folks that do studies pointing out that all the republican presidents have very low IQs compared to democrats. they want to prove something. lacking in ethics is an understatement. in the engineering world, where some of the smartest individuals you'd ever care to meet exist, the populace is mixed in terms of beliefs. most (75% or so) actually fall into the middle somewhere believing in god but not necessarily religion (there is a difference). given that 95% of the world population believes in a higher power, it's pretty easy to see the problem with such "studies." i am an atheist in case you were wondering. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 People can have faith in what they want so long as they realise that there is the possibility (no matter how small) that they are wrong. Also they should have the wherewithal to question everything at all times. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> smarter words are not often typed. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Those studies all show averages. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> actually, they show biases. to begin with, the "results" of such polls rarely state the exact question asked. it is very easy to write a question in such a way to get the answer you want in the first place. next, taking a poll on one campus at a liberal college will certainly skew results. i could run a poll at a private catholic school and you'd see vastly different results. agenda driven ideologues (right or left) cast data in a manner consistent with their ideology, with or without intent. you have to turn on your skew filter when reading any poll. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random evil guy Posted May 4, 2005 Author Share Posted May 4, 2005 there are a ton of studies like these out there and they all say the same: smart people don't believe in god... :D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> they're all probably bogus, too. these are studies that are normally run by people with agendas. taks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> because you say so...? here is the link: http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/Intelligen...20religion.html the point is they all show the same. key word here is tendencies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Are SATs a reliable measure of IQ? they used to be... back in the 70s and early 80s. Is IQ a reliable measure of intelligence? ability to learn is actually what it is designed to measure. however, even that is only valid within a certain context. people learn different things different ways. IQ tests typically look at analytical skills, particularly pattern recognition. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 because you say so...? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> funny, but did i say they definitively were or did i say probably? pay attention. like i said, it's easy to pick out agenda driven polls. if you'd like me to provide a list of religious references that have 180 or so IQs i can. many more conservatives in the engineering ranks than just about any other professional career. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 the point is they all show the same. key word here is tendencies... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> that doesn't make their agenda any less apparent. studies show what they want, tendency, trend, fact... i bet i could poll 100 scientists and 90% would agree that polls are worthless. oh, and yes, i have personal access to many more than 100 scientists... taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random evil guy Posted May 4, 2005 Author Share Posted May 4, 2005 the point is they all show the same. key word here is tendencies... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> that doesn't make their agenda any less apparent. studies show what they want, tendency, trend, fact... i bet i could poll 100 scientists and 90% would agree that polls are worthless. oh, and yes, i have personal access to many more than 100 scientists... taks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> so you're trying to discredit the results by saying polls in general are biased? that's pathetic, even for you... either prove that these results are wrong, the studies are biased or shut up... " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I guess the ability to quote multiple posts in a single reply is also a measure of intelligence. " - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 so you're trying to discredit the results by saying polls in general are biased? that's pathetic, even for you... you just gotta sling some insults, don't you? can't live without them... go back and read my posts. i said, specifically, that polls like these are typically agenda driven. somebody has a point to prove, and it's usually obvious what that point is. show me the actual questions used in these polls, for the entire poll, and i may reevaluate. either prove that these results are wrong, the studies are biased or shut up... " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> you stated the polls first. why don't you show me these polls are statistically significant or YOU shut up. you just don't get science, do you? people like you are the reason polls are worthless, yes, in general this time. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I guess the ability to quote multiple posts in a single reply is also a measure of intelligence. " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> einstein speaking, eh? it's generally considered rude, btw, to do a line item dissection of somebody's post. it makes it hard to follow. so what was that about intelligence? taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random evil guy Posted May 4, 2005 Author Share Posted May 4, 2005 ?sd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionavar Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 This is gonna start o e hell of a flame war :D Subtle nudge - let's not ... OK FLoSD.ObE The universe is change; your life is what our thoughts make it - Marcus Aurelius (161) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaramirK Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 1. Thomas Howells, 1927 Study of 461 students showed religiously conversative students "are, in general, relatively inferior in intellectual ability." 2. Hilding Carlsojn, 1933 Study of 215 students showed that "there is a tendency for the more intelligent undergraduate to be sympathetic toward ... atheism." 3. Thomas Symington, 1935 Tested 400 young people in colleges and church groups. He reported, "there is a constant positive relation in all the groups between liberal religious thinking and mental ability...There is also a constant positive relation between liberal scores and intelligence..." 4. C. Plant and E. Minium, 1967 The more intelligent students were less religious, both before entering college and after 2 years of college. 5. Norman Poythress, 1975 Mean SATs for strongly antireligious (1148), moderately anti- religious (1119), slightly antireligious (1108), and religious (1022). there are a ton of studies like these out there and they all say the same: smart people don't believe in god... :D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "a ton of studies"? There are also innumerable evidences that many of the greatest minds in History were theists. Perhaps a better conclusion would have been "Some studies show that many 20th Century academic high acheivers are atheists". I will add that Academic acheivement is not the universal measurement for intelligence. If you don't believe me, try competing for survival in the jungle against one of the locals, and see who is more intelligent in that setting... I pose to you a question, how many countries based on Atheism are free, happy, prosperous nations compared to the nations that are predominantly theistic? I encourage belief in God even if its only purpose is to curb man's arrogant self-centeredness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarjahurmaaja. Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 "in the engineering world, where some of the smartest individuals you'd ever care to meet exist, the populace is mixed in terms of beliefs. most (75% or so) actually fall into the middle somewhere believing in god but not necessarily religion (there is a difference). given that 95% of the world population believes in a higher power, it's pretty easy to see the problem with such 'studies.'" But doesn't that mean that engineers are less god believing than the rest of the world? I mean, 75% is a hell of a lot less than 95%. 9/30 -- NEVER FORGET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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