Matt516

Degenerative gameplay is a very useful concept, when applied properly. The current health/stamina system's way of making you not want to heal your frontliners in combat, letting them fall instead - that's degenerative gameplay.

Tbh, the more I think about it the less I mind the "tanks soaking up all the damage and causing resting" issue. It makes sense - if you (in "real" life) had one person doing all of the close-range fighting and taking hits, of course they'd be the driving force behind you having to rest. The issue with healing stamina being disincentivized still needs to be fixed - but the fact of one character taking most of the hits and then causing a rest isn't really something I mind at all.

How does one measure physical strength then? I'm just curious. Not with an attribute - not in this game.

A "fragile" wizard who has incredible power can totally exist. That's why HP is tied to CON. And for the last time everybody... this is a completely different fantasy world from Forgotten Realms (and all derivatives). This world operates on completely different rules. Might does not mean physical strength. Great physical strength is indeed one result of high Might - but they are not one and the same.

Not going to get into it with your main point because PrimeJunta already seems to have that covered, and I don't personally see much point in arguing it tbh, buuuut.... PoE? A stealth simulator? Thief. Mark of the Ninja. Dishonored. Deus Ex. Gunpoint. Metal Gear Solid. Even Jagged Alliance 2! These are stealth games, or games with stealth as a significant component. Have you played any of these games? Do you know what a stealth game is? I don't mean to sound rude, but c'mon now! Of all your accusations, this is perhaps the strangest. PoE is not a stealth game. Not even close. If it were it would be a godawful one. There's no line of sight, sound, searching mechanics, etc... just circles with different radii based on a skill. Just because you feel that combat is optional in many places in PoE because it can be bypassed with "stealth" does not mean that PoE is a "stealth simulator". That's not helpful criticism. It's trolling. And it won't make the devs take your other (many legitimate) criticisms seriously.

6thed? (never realized they were doing this )

Depends on how you look at it - each attack still has the same amount added to it as it would've if you were single-wielding. Only difference is that it's a higher percentage of the previous time. So I suppose armor does affect the dps of a dual-wielder more than that of a single-wielder. Hmm. Interesting.

I think everyone is aware that Soul Ignition is totally unbalanced currently and is bound to get hit hard by the Nerf bat. And what you're describing above isn't even half of it. You don't ever need to engage in combat with SI since it has an almost unlimited range. You can safely burn down mobs with SI without ever drawing aggro! 2 questions: 1) If you SE an enemy from really far away, does it attack you? 2) If you SE one of a group of enemies from really far away, does the group attack you? If the answer to either of those is "no", that's not even a balance issue IMO - it's a bug. Attacking an enemy should aggro it - that's really all there is to it. Hopefully that gets fixed before launch.

That's more a problem with the AI than the Monk though IMO. They never really switch targets, do they?

I don't think the Health/Stamina system is broken by design - but it certainly needs tweaks. This thread offers some of the best ideas I've seen so far: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68144-about-staminahealth-and-an-idea-how-to-fix-it/?p=1499352 TL;DR: Idea 1) Tie the H/S ratio to current stamina. So at (for example, these numbers would certainly need to be tuned) 100-75% stamina, you lose no health, at 75-50% stamina, you lose at 1:4 ratio, at 50-0%, you lose at 1:2 ratio (or something like that). This would lessen the impact of small encounters while solving the "healing stamina is actually bad strategically" problem we currently have. Idea 2) Eliminate Health, and opt for a number of allowed times to fall in battle (dependent on class, maybe talents, maybe actual max stamina, I dunno) before maimed/dead. Fixes the aforementioned problems as well. We should stop arguing about why we don't like the current system and offer really good alternatives instead. Both the ones I summarized above (neither of which were my ideas, btw) are fantastic alternatives to the current problem. I think Idea 1 is the most likely to happen since it doesn't eliminate Health and OE clearly likes the health mechanic. Anyone have any better ideas? Seems to me the best course is to find a few really good ideas, then rally behind the best of them. Because the current system clearly isn't working as intended - the incentive structure is all over the place. But that can be fixed. So! I've put forth 2 ideas. Anyone got any better ones?

Well that doesn't exactly pose a problem though. Having it separated into 2 tabbed windows actually cuts down on clutter, regardless of whether or not it is actually necessary. The problem at hand is the clutter of the combat log from combat events.

Bumping just to give an FYI that this is not yet fixed (don't know if y'all thought it was or not).

Maybe she's just really, really adherent to the ideals of her order? O_o

Just bumping - this still isn't fixed in the latest patch. Looking forward to it though!

Nah you're probably right There's a lvl up skill that raises it from 1:6 to 1:8 IIRC.

Mutonizer, you put waaay too much emphasis on the value of the inn resting stat bonus. It doesn't matter what your current stats are, so claiming that an increase from 3 to 5 is somehow more valuable than an increase from 13 to 15 is disingenuous - if you look at what the stats actually do, you'll see that: A) The effects are totally linear. This "15-90%" bonus stuff is pure nonsense. Yes, if your stats are really low, the flat attribute boni will increase your attributes by a higher percentage of their previous values than if your stats were higher. But you don't benefit more. At all. So stop it with the "inns give a 90% bonus to your attributes" stuff. It's simply incorrect. B) The boni aren't that significant. +6% health? Ok. That's good... but not worth hiking all the way out of a dungeon and back for. So please stop exaggerating the issue. There are problems with the HP/Stam system as currently implemented - but it's not nearly as dire as you seem to think.

The position is fine ;p Agree with your points though Matt, too much stuff happens too fast and gets reported too often. You don't need to tell me BB Fighter gained 1 stamina from recovery, I know, he has that on all the time. Yeah I'd love to see that off by default. The only real solution is customizable options though - what if I'm fighting an enemy with really high regen and I don't realize it? I should be able to turn regen on temporarily just to see...

Hello all, Only played a little bit of the new build, but from what I've seen it's vastly improved. Gives me a good deal of hope that they've made this much progress in 2 weeks. Combat and combat feedback have been improved... but something really has to be done about that log. Show less (especially regen), smaller font, better color coding, I dunno. But something really has to be done. It's far too chaotic at the moment to be useful. That's all. It's not really a bug, just an improvement that needs to be made.

"Pocket Gremlins" option. Right next to Big Heads.

I think that's the crux of it. The game as currently designed has really odd incentives (like letting characters fall instead of healing them).

It certainly seems to be doing something - but if you look at the log it looks like more than just DT is affecting the damage for some reason. I dunno. UI and feedback are much improved, but still have a ways to go.

"By accident" xD

All the damage calcs in the log seem a bit off. Posted a few examples in my bug report thread here: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68220-bug-combat-log-does-not-show-correct-calculations/?p=1501618

Related: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68209-pathfinding-messes-up-in-close-formations/?p=1501586 Same bug, different way of reproducing.

All in all, the UI has been made much more responsive. Still some improvement to be done, but great work so far! There's a problem with the combat log. I'm not sure it it's displaying the incorrect damage calculations, or if it's displaying the correct calculation but the damage is being calculated incorrectly. Either way, it needs to be fixed. [To reproduce] Use any damaging ability or attack on a valid target Manage to hit, crit, or graze Mouse over the appropriate entry in the combat log Note that the damage calculation doesn't appear to add up. It'll say (for example) 40.3 - 10.0 = 27.4 or something similarly not correct. [Expected behavior] Damage calculation in combat log should add up. I've attached a few screenshots to demonstrate: