213374U

I've been at this for seven pages... I guess it won't hurt to try again. You are considering Luke the perfect Jedi, when he's far from being so. He acted in fear in the cave of Dagobah, he acted in anger against his father on board the DS, he tried to strike down an unarmed Emperor after failing to resist the taunts. He was this close to falling to the DS. That in the movies only. In fact Luke's own struggle to keep the DS at bay was one of the movies' plots. Regarding his choking the pigs, he didn't even try another way of circumventing the problem. Other Jedi would have used stealth as Obi-Wan did on board the DS, maybe a Mind Trick would have been enough. And of course he didn't even say 'please'. Luke simply choked them until they were out of his way, and took advantage of the fear his attack had caused. Acted like a true darksider. Maybe it all would have come down to a fight in the end, but he didn't even try to avoid hurting them. That's not the way of the Jedi. I believe Jedi regard Force skills such as lightning and hurling objects at a target as deviations of the dark side. Using them is inherently evil. No Jedi would ever use those. Pushing away others with the Force is a different matter, since there is a risk of causing major injury or death, but that is not the intent of the Jedi when doing so. Therefore a Jedi might choose to take that risk if the situation warrants it.

I didn't suggest anything of the sort. However, it amuses me how you can call a debate which you have admittedly not read, 'crap'. I could care less about your opinion, but you proved your ignorance about this topic when you stated it's close to a flame war. That and the arrogant tone of your posts are what prompted my reply, nothing else. If you are harsh, expect nothing but harshness.

I see... so you don't want to read 'this crap'. Well, it's your choice. But maybe you should read some other 'crap', maybe then you would know about Battle Meditation being added into the game.

Ming the Merciless is the ultimate DS badass. :ph34r:

if there's a kone there must also be a ktwo <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Kone backwards in Enok and Enok is a drink recipe. Maybe Kone is subliminally trying to get us to drink. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is only bad as far as Enok is a bad drink. And of course if you are under legal age... "

You can get the 640x480 trailer here

Hmm. It really seems you know what you're talking about. TBH I didn't expect to find somebody who actually knew this kind of stuff in depth here. I must have underestimated the dark side... err I mean... you. I have read quite a few things on self-defense myself, and AFAIK, you would be hard pressed to justify the use of something as deadly as a back-breaking technique, no matter the circumstances, since the only aim of such a move is to cause serious and/or permanent injury, if not death. I believe that could be compared to using the Force in an offensive way. Yeah, the feeling is mutual.

Yup. But you have to leave something for us poor lightsiders to play with. "

Feeling smart, are we?

As far as moral and legal concerns go, there is no difference between 'aggressive defense' and aggression itself. You see some punk in the street trying to mug/rape/kill a girl, you step in and break his back. Guess who's going to jail? " But you are missing the point. There are other forms of using the Force that don't involve harming others. If a Jedi chooses the aggresive one over the harmlessl one, he's giving in to the dark side.

Nope. If you cause harm to others, no matter why or how, it's an attack. Even if the target of your attack deserves to be attacked, it doesn't change the nature of your action. Using the Force to confuse the attacker, paralize him, or create an illusion to trick him would be defense. Hurting him would cross the line. All right. Let's consider you can always find some devil's advocate to justify your unjustifiable drawing upon the dark side. That could work in a pnp RPG since you could try to convince the GM that what you absolutely, positively needed to fry that poor beggar with Force lightning (he was after your money, after all!). However, in a CRPG there's no GM to argue with, so a general rule must be applied. And in general, using the Force to harm others, is wrong. So, to get back on topic, no. The LS should absolutely not get any powers that can directly or indirectly cause harm.

I'm beginning to think that no amount of examples would be enough for you. Remember that 'the Force is for defense and enlightenment, never for attack' babbling? That's what it all comes down to. So you say. The Force is not a law court. It doesn't accept 'mitigating circumstances', there are no intermediate positions. Attacking other beings with the Force is wrong. Not only that, those poor pigs were not in a threatening attitude, either. They were just in his way. If choking them is not DS, then nothing is. So Force lightning some bloke who happened to be in your way, while being in perfect control of your emotions would not be DS just because you are not in anger? Please. If anything, using the Force against others is wrong, because most beings are defenseless against that kind of attacks. Attacking a defenseless being is wrong by my book.

Nov 16, same day as Half-Life 2. Ooooh... that's tomorrow... (w00t)

Is there a point in digging out all the old threads?

That is your opinion. You have nothing canon to support it, while there are plenty of examples which point otherwise. You admit it yourself. Luke used a dark side power. From the moment it harms other living being, it is the DS. I'm glad you finally understand it. Your point being? I never said the Force is light or dark. It depends on how it is used. Again, using it to harm others, no matter the circumstances, is DS.

LOL. Someday you will run into Flash Gordon and then he'll crash your party...

There's other matter, however. There are no examples of Jedi using the Force to harm others, no matter the circumstances, unless they are darksiders. I have provided one example to support my arguments, you have provided none. It turns out the EU is canon as far as it doesn't go against the movies. Moreover, the dark horse comics are defining the main plots of the clone wars, probably on guidelines provided by Lucasfilm. Maybe it's an EU author's idea of how the Force must be used, but as for now, it's canon. I didn't like it very much myself, but my opinion doesn't count when it comes to defining what is SW.

Star Wars: Jedi - Yoda is a comic by dark horse. It's set during the Clone Wars. You want to understand what I'm talking about, read below: There's the evidence you wanted.

Read Star Wars: Jedi: Yoda.

It's better to let others do your dirty work, rather than risking your own neck in potentially dangerous business. Revan learned that the hard way. "

Yeah, it could be a krayt dragon for

I thought it always was 'Wild Speculation Time'. Anyway, there's a flaw in that theory. You know, Bastila could die by your own hand in K1, and nothing at all happened to the PC's connection to the force. If at all, I believe Bastila's turning to LS or DS could affect the PC, but not much more.

Lilarcor... anyone? :ph34r:

Well, if the speculation and the info provided by OXM are accurate, then those are some major spoilers. But then again, you won't know until you play the game.