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Psst. That's Volo you're trying to argue with. He is Impervious to Logic. Any effort and time you put into disarming his feeble arguments and establishing yours is wasted as your points will be flat out ignored. I doubt he he can even understand the notion that there are different opinions than his own.

What? Now I can't even flame Volourn? What's the world coming to? Fascists are regarded pretty poorly over here. Regardless of what people tell you, there is still a lot of resentment from the people that lost the war, or rather, their heirs. Funny that, because most of that resentment is fueled by ignorance. Sure, Franco was a tyrant. He was a fascist dictator, after all, and one that came to power as the result of a civil war, to boot. But he was nowhere near Mussolini, Pinochet, or obviously, Hitler. No purges, but there were some political prisoner executions. Unless you were part of an underground movement or engaged in illegal business, the police would leave you alone, though. Bad, but definitely not as bad as some people claim he was.

Go, Volo!

ELDAR EDIT: Behave, Mr. numbers. It is not a right. It is a political privilege. Until you understand this fundamental difference, you won't be able to make any solid points in this debate. Sure. All they have to do is earn the privilege. It's there for everyone to grab. As I said, you can always go live under a rock, if you don't wish to be part of society. Otherwise, you must contribute to maintain the basic services that you benefit from, regardless of whether or not you can vote. You seem to have the strange notion that rising taxes is a whimsical decision based on the next car model the Senator wants to buy. It's not. It's based on the needs of society as a whole. That includes you. Um, yeah. Voting is a right. I already stated so in the previous post. [reading comprehension: failed] What it should be however, is a different matter.

It is. It shouldn't be. You don't do anything to earn the right to vote. Therefore, you are getting stuff for free. Laws, however, are necessary for society not to crumble, but you can go live under a rock if you wish. It's not a matter of "I trade you the right to vote in exchange for you submitting to my rules". Where did I mention dumb people? In fact I'm against a system that prevents "dumb" people from voting. You just pulled that out of your ass, as usual, to make me look like something I'm not, that is, a hypocrite. And voting has nothing to do with taxes, as people that couldn't vote would still have rights to use public roads or benefit from firemen and police services. Try to make some sense with real (not invented) points next time, please. No, that's the exception that proves the rule. Volourn actually questioning other people's logic? That's HILARIOUS. Too bad this isn't a comedy thread. No one is disallowing anyone from voting. Only requiring them to prove they are willing to give something in exchange for that privilege and ensuring that people have a civic sense and the capacity to put aside their own pursuits for some time to help the community they live in. Obviously this last point is alien to you. You obviously fail to understand the concept of freedom.

Obviously Revan Solo screwed up the boards. I'll go get the tar.

The only way to prevent more soldiers from dying would be to ship every one of them off. And leaving the Iraqi high and dry as things are right now wouldn't be very nice.

Hey, no problem. I'm not allergic to a bit of truth every now and then. With the difference that this has absolutely nothing to do with denying physiological needs and it would affect the individual's personal rights and life in absolutely no way. Fair enough, but that still doesn't address the three issues I brought up in my previous post.

I already admitted I'm a fascist. But voting is not a right. Getting stuff in exchange for nothing is stupid. And with something as important as the right to vote, it's not only stupid, it's dangerous. But hey, you are Volourn. That makes you automatically wrong in anything you post.

Yeah, I'm quite the fascist. I'm surprised it took folks so long to notice it. But I no longer mind being called that. At any rate, the idea of a compulsory service in exchange for full political privileges is to throw off people that don't really want them that bad. And if they don't, they shouldn't have them, as it obviously shows a worrying lack of civic responsibility. Allowing such people to vote or even enter politics is irresponsible at best, and an invitation for disaster at worst. I agree that not all service duties are equally exerting or risky, but the point is not to ensure that every citizen is a steel-skinned killing machine, but to give a sense of sacrifice for the community and to make people realize that the right to have a voice in the affairs of everyone else is neither free nor guaranteed. I guess that community service would work, too, as the philosophy is the same. But that takes away the equalizing element of serving in the military, and it also neglects the point raised by meta, that nobody should send others to death without even knowing what the army is. Being thrown out of a voluntary military service in case that the candidate doesn't show enough effort or motivation would apparently be much easier than being kicked out of a social organism, as obviously, the discipline isn't enforced in the same way. But that's just fascist ol' me.

Which is the biggest flaw of democracy as well, with politicians never doing anything that will remove them from power, even if it needs to be done, for fear of losing that power.

That's the quid of the question. It'd be interesting to try, at any rate.

Yeah, like the guy with the funny hairdo in the SW: Republic comics could do. But no, that's not RL psychometry.

And just where would the benchmark be set to ensure that it would be neither too easy to pass the test nor too elitist? A "Service grants citizenship" system also makes sure that everyone is perfectly aware of the value that political privileges have, and that those who want them are willing to work to earn them. Serving is exactly the same work for somebody raised with little academic chances as it is for a degree graduate, as I believe that everyone should have the same opportunities to earn those privileges provided they have the will to.

I actually agree with this. Particularly, I'm thinking of something similar to Heinlein's take on the matter in Starship Troopers.

Huh? Did DA2 have any better parts? I thought it was pretty uniform in its level of suckage.

*sticks fingers in ears* Lalalalala... I'm not listening!

That's pretty much it. I believe she thought that sacrificing the whole Jedi order (barring herself) was a fair price to pay (and in her own eyes the only way) in exchange for rooting out the source of the threat. But I didn't think she was evil. Just confused and deluded. Nah. You only say that because Atris is exactly the complete opposite of Exar Kun. Unpredictable, with a deep, complex and credible personality, an interesting background, and most importantly, not relying on Sith crap to grant her uber 1337 powers of d00m. The only thing I didn't like about her part of the plot was how the whole issue was resolved in the LS path. It just doesn't make sense to just leave her there to her fate (perhaps even allowing her to fall further) if your PC has been seeking redemption the whole game. She should have had a hand in the endgame, perhaps dying in a blaze of glory, saving the PC's ass somehow, or whatever. Lots of dramatic potential wasted there. Otherwise, her subplot was one of the strong points of the game, IMO.

< ) ( \ X 8====D

There are Japanese troops on Iraq IIRC. They abducted a Jap and threatened to kill him unless the troops were withdrawn. He was executed.

Hmm. Didn't their moms tell them not to take candy from strangers...?

I suggest you open up a new thread about this. Not everyone that could be interested would read this thread. I suggest you open up a new thread about this. That way the irreversible brain damage could be contained.

I'm Spanish, so no. I'm not associated in any way with the US military. And I wasn't discounting the French military. It was a general comment about some European countries that have disbanded their armies, not France specifically.