Silent Winter

I hate this - because I put my weapon away and then forget it's in my pack and when out of town, my character launches themself bare-fisted at an ogre

Where's 'BOTH' in the poll? Honestly, I want to walk around town most of the time (and through the wilderness some of the time) and cautiously through a dungeon - but I'll want to run around already covered wilderness or to get around the shops in town when I come back for the 5th time. BG2 walk-speeds were ok, but sometimes a run was better.

^Yes, variety is good. I still don't think weak->strong for one class while another does the opposite is good design. Giving each class something good and being variably useful in different situtions (and having a good balance of those situations) while still being able to offer something even when they're not at their most useful, is the ideal for me. (Just don't ask me to design it )

^Ah, ok - I was going on IE games (I think you just got the red area to indicate trap but not the type). In NWN/2, you do indeed get the trap-type and how serious it is. (haven't played the beta so can't say if it's the same in PoE) Would still involve writing up a 'trappery' with a bit more lore to make it fit in with the rest of the UI. (unless it's just numbers added to the current pop-up - might be easier then)

Not everything you can tweak is 'depth' - depth involves having more options, not making a class weaker or stronger.

^can't say for sure myself either - but wouldn't it involve adding another 'bestiary' ('trappery'/'lockery'?) and the descriptions/illustrations therein? Also a 'check trap' command so you can see what kind of trap you're up against and whether you're likely to get that bonus to disarming it. (Or are we talking 'purely under the hood - figure it out yourself?)

So in this regard we are doing that, but the niche is not just combat, but also noncombat. Here at least I can agree - we should also consider non-combat skills when judging a class' worth to the party ... but then D&D adds 'knock' and 'find traps' (and invisibility) which largely negates a thief's worth. So long as the system doesn't do that, I'm fine with having 'less effective, but still helping a bit, in combat while being useful outside combat' (I just don't think it's necessary to tweak the class' combat effectiveness to be weak early but strong later and vice-versa.)

^So we're not really defining it - just saying that we want them to be equally useful - great This can be achieved in many ways - so long as the enemies are varied (in terms of numbers, positions and types), we should end up with different encounters needing a focus on different skills. Some classes will shine in some encounters and others in others. But overall, each class should have strengths and flaws throughout (hopefully compensated for by the others in the team). Having a class be simply weak early but strong later (and vice-versa) isn't great character development IMO - better would be keeping all the classes useful in their own niches.

^Pretty much - except that I'm not equating 'power' with 'equally useful' - what are we using to define 'power'? Only dps? Is 'sleep' more powerful than 'cleave'? Not in terms of DPS but in terms of how easy it is to defeat a group perhaps. I just want all the classes to have something useful to do and not feel like I could do without them - and certainly not having it so that one class is much better earlier but becomes (relatively-) rubbish later while another class does the opposite. That makes the former class go downhill, which is frustrating later on, and the latter class is also less fun to play initially. One could say that in a team game it's less important, and that's right, but for my PC I don't want to become less important to the group. Each class might need different tactics to make the most of it, and all the classes should be challenging to play.

^so left click to pick it up then right click to split it? Does just right clicking do something else? (if not, wouldn't it be easier just to use right click straight off the bat?)

Do we know how much xp is being given for disarming traps? Is it in the 20xp range or the 100xp range? (not sure what a level is worth in PoE - so not sure myself what xp is worth - I'm just asking for how significant it is)

No there isnt actually any fundamental difference at all. Its fundamentally the exact same thing, just different position on the scale. So again we are at this, where do you want the position to be on the scale? I understand 10-90 is too much. How much is good for you? perhaps you could clarify what you mean by this 10-90 or 50-50 scale? I got the impression before that you were talking about different portions of the game (not great for the first 50% but then great for the latter 50%) (kinda like how mages weren't very good early BG but then awesome later) - this is what I want to avoid. Now I'm thinking I misunderstood you - do you mean 'useful in 50% of the situations through the whole game' ? Or 'highly/not effective against 50% of the enemies through the whole game?' What I'm saying is that all classes should have something to offer in all situations but by using different tactics. Yes, there'll be times when wizards are more effective because the enemy are clumped together and you can fireball them, then other times the fighter might be king because the enemy hits hard and fast, others the rogue will be more effective because the enemy can be [status-effect]-ed and hit for super-damage, etc etc. But this should be the case at ALL levels. Not for a small part of the game where the classes equalise before one shoots off into the stratosphere. (minor class imbalance is ok as it's a team game - they needn't be 100% equal at all levels - but that could fluctuate at different levels, sometimes wizard is a little better, sometimes ranger, etc) FTFY (just my opinion of course - and I wouldn't want a whole party of them)

^there's a difference between "differently useful at all levels" and "90% useless until level-x" - in a team game like PoE, I want each class to compensate for each other through the whole game. The wizard needs the fighter/barbarian who need the priest who needs the rogue who needs the wizard etc (except more intertwining rather than rock,paper,scissors) If the wizard has flaws that are always there at all levels, and same for the fighter and same for the rogue etc, then I'd find that more interesting than "babysit the wizard for 6 levels until they can do it all themselves and then babysit the fighter" [in NWN, for example, once the mage/sorceror has "open lock" and "find traps" the rogue becomes a sub-standard melee add-on (not even a superior scout thanks to "invisibility")] As I said, having a glass-cannon is one way to do that (but the introduction of stoneskin and protection from xyz made that into an adamantium cannon) - remove those OTT protection spells and you can have your glass cannon throughout. Personally, I'd prefer a wizard with more variety - not merely a glass cannon - but I've yet to play the game so perhaps chanters and ciphers will make for an interesting mix.

^this I'm not saying they can't do it - just that I think they've put a moratorium on new ideas while they make what they already have work with the time (/money) they've got left.

^There's a difference between balancing classes and making them equal in terms of dps. DPS is not the be-all and end-all of classes. A wizard might be able to do things differently than a fighter (sleep/haste spells as an example) but have less raw dps power. Alternatively, a wizard might have more dps but low hp (D&D). It's not about getting the 50-50/80-20 balance right - it's about making all the classes interesting to play and worth having in your party at all levels. So you're not left compensating for the lame and fragile wizard early on and then having your fighter hack near-uselessly while your wizard obliterates at high levels. on-topic - whether the wizard has summoning spells or not is not my main issue - it's whether the wizard has enough variety to make them interesting to play (same as for any given class)

I think this is quite a cool idea - but too late to add to PoE. (I also don't think disarming traps needs xp) But getting a bonus to disarming the same type of trap (after disarming a few of them) would make nice in-world sense.

They've married the skill points (lore, mechanics, etc) to talents - so you can't choose them separately - not sure if that's permanent or just a 'test' but doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Latest update thread in 'Announcements' forum has some incoming changes from Obsidian's 'test-week' , about combat speed among others (I think latest beta had some adjustment to global recovery times and animal armour speed penalties too). Engagement indicators in selection circles have changed, looks a little odd at the mo' Probably a bunch of other stuff under the hood too.

most interesting part of the update actually this has gotten my hopes up - In the first village, you can decide that you don't want to bother with all this adventuring malarky and just settle down as a farmer. ...then some other hero saves the realm and you live happily ever after

That web spell is too white (=bright) and additive(=mess) - compare the webs as part of the environment in the background - the webs should be greyer and not additive (one web covers another, not mixes with it - this might be tricky to program though, I dunno), I think that'd go a long way to helping visibility in that mess.

they don't

yeah, but they could also have (non-plot) items disappear after a while to solve that. What happens to items I just don't pick up? Enemy drops will depend on where they fell so there'll still be items dropped on the ground that I don't take into my stash - what's the difference? (genuine question - I don't know why it would be technically more problematic to drop items on the ground versus leaving enemy loot-drops).

Like the portraits Update sounds good too. Thanks for the info

Ah, the Dark Knight! ---- Would like to see enemies dropping the gear they're using (would also not mind if some mundane gear in an area were damaged in battle) Not the end of the world if it's not in though, so long as the drops we do get make sense. Would hate to see wolves dropping short-swords/gold-necklaces or a common bandit dropping mighty-avenger+5 that they had tucked away but didn't use in battle since their short-sword -1 seemed like a good idea at the time.

^Yes, those who backed the game will also get the pre-order stuff (see the thread in announcements where this was confirmed) http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69314-pre-orders-and-new-trailer-now-live/ (first post)

Yes, there'll be a manual (digital pdf version for digital backers)