Pipyui

Generally when building a giant underground mega-dungeon, you tend to work from the ground down. PE doesn't need to have a strict "lump sum" system of distributing experience. I don't see why we can't still get it from killing things, solving puzzles, disarming traps, unlocking chests. etc. I know that IE games of old used it, but in my mind the implementation of kill exp serves more for the realm of ARPGs and dungeon crawlers than for CRPGs - where you grind through enemies and dungeons solely to level up. In PE we will be leveing so slowly that I don't imagine the difference between getting exp for killing things immediately, and getting it instead at the end of the quest/dungeon/whatever should impact too significantly. In every ARPG - and in many CRPGs - I've played, I treat experience like currency beyond gold, the ultimate resource, and will go out of my way to clear enemies for it only to turn around and persuade my way through an obstacle as the "alternative choice." The no-kill-exp mechanic serves to cull that metagaming BS. Sure, your party should get experience from combat, but if this is abstracted away to a system based on merit - even the merit of clearing a remote horde of goblins, or solving a puzzle, or unlocking a hefty chest - to staunch flaws of the stab-something-get-exp system, I'm for it. You should still get experience for clearing enemy parties and such, I just don't mind if it's delayed until after I clear the immediate area of enemies entirely / finish the quest / whatnot.

It seems to me that novels come from either successful pen-and-paper systems, or otherwise largely successful video games like Halo, Mass Effect, etc. Since PoE is Obsidian's own IP and not a publisher's, I guess that if the story is interesting enough, the game is successful, and Obsidian grants ample creative licence to writers - both in narrative (room for expansion) and legal practice - some writers may take a crack at it.

I'm in the "variable radius" camp too, at least so far as my known options go. However, I'd prefer a "click center then drag AOE radius" control mechanic to the mousewheel.

Indeed. We already know that they haven't even finished all the creatures and wilderness areas yet, and are still tweaking the mechanics and stuff. I think it's safe to say that they are still in pre-alpha, and I doubt polished animations were higher on their priority list than the aformentioned bits - just placeholders for now.

True enough I suppose, but I fear that anybody investigating into the game who finds that video and thinks that it's a trailer representative of the complete game may deem to judge it immediately for a lack of quality. Judging the trailer from this perspective, it looks unprofessional, unpolished, and generic, like any other crappy "Look! It's CraftMines for mobile! Microtransactions everywhere!!" game thrown together by nincompoops. (I'm not saying it looks bad, just that it looks bad as a finished product. I think it looks just as awesome as the rest of you blokes as a first look into the game ) Of course, it's got the Obsidian name, and we all know that it's pre-alpha, but I fear that the uninitiatted might not understand the hype. I mean, I know this game wasn't made to target the shallow ("NO 3Ds!! SHENANIGANS!1! cRPG?? Crappy Role Playing Game? LOLZ!"), but I feel that this video could have had a simple disclaimer so as not to alienate some with high expectations for modern games right off. I could just be typing out of my @$$.

There was some big discussion about it in the update thread, and the devs have confirmed that the animations are still pre-alpha. I confess though, to the uninformed the gameplay video doesn't portray any hint that the game's still pre-alpha. I'm sure there are many out there who think that it's a trailer representative of the final product, and are turning their attention away from PoE because the animations (so far) make it look unprofessional. It makes me sad to consider.

Not that I care either way, and I like it, but honesty time: did you come up with that solely to address this issue? (I like the attention to detail though)

I think I like the relative perception circles better than absolute derived from stealth/perception scores. It could mean the difference between playing this game and this game It's a terrible example, I know - I just want to illustrate the point.

We fooled you too, huh? Just kidding. Welcome.

I think what PrimeJunta is trying to say is that, if all attributes that will be used by the game's mechanics are those derived from the core stats, then the core stats only serve to aid the player. All creatures would still play by the same rules as the player if these stats were abstracted for them, as any aid or penalty to stats would translate directly and appropriately to their corresponding attributes. The only aspect that may follow different rules, should the devs choose, is that base attribute values of creatures may not directly translate to core stats. In my mind this is advantageous, as creatures don't then need to be limited strictly to "human" development, and can thus have more variety. A player character's Health and Stamina would increase with their Constitution, and would thus follow a particular pattern. A Slime however could have enormous Stamina but miniscule Health, which might contradict each other in terms of a Constitution stat, but would still follow the same rules of stat modification where a change in X Constitution would have the appropriate changes to Health and Stamina. The mechanics would be virtually unchanged, only that attribute scores of creatures wouldn't be necessarily tied to the "human" distribution pattern - if they're not designed horribly, I don't think this is a bad thing.

Fantastic update! Love the new UI and the stat transparency! It means "Brotherhood of the Five Suns". It's Vailian and is pronounced frehr-MAHS mehs kahnk swoh-LEE-ahs. Actually, forget Pilliars of Eternity - you should kickstarter "Prosodies of the World, with Josh Sawyer: The Video Game."

Modders can be pretty ingenuous. In my mind, the question of environment generation is less "How difficult is it?" than "How free is the required software?" As long as the map generation is fairly straightforward (of which I do not know), a wiki page or tutorial with step-by-step instructions should do wonders. But if third-party tools are not freely* available, the modding community will suffer for it greatly. Sample maps would be nice, but if everything goes well, they should be used more as sample spaces for artists to acquaint themselves with the medium than as actual environments to mod. If things do not go so well, I guess we'd have to make do as you (Osvir) suggest we may (though I hope not ). In either case, I really hope they give us those environment resources to use, because while some may be able to paint in themselves a rock or a wall or even a building, I don't think it'd be easy to paint in an animated tree. TL;DR: I suspect the major concerns to modders are: Map generation may be complex, but how straightforward is the process? Are there free* tools available for the process? Seriously, I think a website with resource portals for community-made environments, model resources, mods, etc. is a fantastic idea. * Free as in price and terms of use.

Sorry if this is a rerun, I haven't yet read through this thread. Anyway, Much like the traditional quest of old to discover immortality through alchemy, what happens when someone too ambitious tries to refine, reinforce, and shape their own soul in attempt to ascend into godhood (or something like) ... and fails? The godlike provide good proof-of-concept to incite an attempt: if something of the divine soul can be passed down to mortal flesh - and with sciences available providing the tools for manipulation - why not reshape and raise an existing soul into divinity? But much like in gemcrafting, cutting and polishing a soul is a delicate process. Sometimes, even when one is careful - CRACK And in a gem so refined, one crack can be the difference between perfection and madness. The resultant being might be seraphim-esque in aspect, beautiful, but for scarring reflective of its cracked soul and mind - a monsterous arm, perhaps; or melded flesh and bone where legs should be. Perhaps its nature is similar: almost perfect, above and detached, but irrational and quick to violent madness. Perhaps instead the shattering takes a heavier toll, and the being's self is lost entirely. I like to imagine a being - once a person - androgynous, pale or unnaturally dark (I can't help but address racist undertones), hairless, and beautiful but for a monsterous deformity belying its nature. It floats and glows faintly, and is completely stoic, even while attacking your party with magic. If there are more "damaged" ones, maybe their facades aren't so complete, and they are both more monsterous in appearance and more vicious and personal in combat.

I'm hoping to, at least, get the environment resources for modding. You know, trees, rocks, walls, tables, doors, the like. The environments I suspect we shall have to produce ourselves, unless we want a bunch of environments without varying elevation; but it would be nice to get some of the ground/wall texture samples, so that we could plaster them into our own environments. From what we've been hearing of the development pipeline, I suspect that a modders toolkit is not coming our way. It sounds rather that Obsidian is using a whole sequence of third-party tools to produce their maps, and I deem it likely we'll need to do the same. They'll outline their own process for us, give us all of the map formats and specifications, and suggest tools to create them, as well as provide us samples and resources (like trees). It might be interesting, when the modding community comes together, to provide a website with portals to different community resources. Environment artists could upload sceneries, modelers could upload static resources, and then the modders could use these to produce content-filled and complete mods.

I'm with Nonek and Wolfengang - if undead are to be creepy, they can't just be more hack-fodder for the player. You see this in successful horror games; generally speaking, you have little power to combat the evil around you. The haunted hotel in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines was awesome, and yet you never directly confront the ghost with the axe. You just survive as best you can, while the atmosphere and scripted events stimulate your imagination and provide ample tension. That being said, I have to agree that zombies and the like have become so common as to remove any impact from the player in most situations. This isn't to say that zombies can't be scary, just that it is harder now when people have seen every variation of zombie attack 20 times over (also, they're slow and mindless. Without crushing numbers or a tendency to leap from the shadows, they're not particularly intimidating).

Ah, that's what I had hoped to convey. It doesn't matter if the location is the same, I just want an introduction that isn't completely linear like Ostagar. The trouble is, is that you walk in and the entire origin story you just finished crashes around you, and you're left being dragged through Ostagar. I think, ultimately, the main failure of this place is its complete lack of player agency. I understand the narrative decision to drag the player through a series of events that (s)he has no control over, but to have such a long sequence where every choice I could make and incentive I could have is made for me does not suit my tastes at all. I feel like I do nothing of my own volition, as a player - I am entirely at the mercy of this narrative, pulling levers when the Man in the Coat tells me to. It was just new to me to learn that I was not alone in loathing ~Ostagar~, so I just thought to diagnose the problems it presents; and I suspect that the best way to combat such unfortunate narrative is to introduce an element of choice or variation, not unlike what you suggest. Also, happy <holiday>, all!

Couldn't have said it more aptly myself. Any attempted replay of DA:O inevitably dies here. It'd be really nice if you could choose your first steps from a set of tutorial / acclimation scenarios, in the sense of "Here, there are some things around needs investigation - how about you pick a case and get familiar with the work, aye?" or otherwise bypass the forced on-rails tutorial altogether. I think that that the condemning facet of Ostagar is its complete, droll inevitablity. You're funneled helplessly into this boring, linear introduction with zero sense of control - a definitive on-rails experience that pushes you around and has you pull levers to get through to the real game. So really, in my mind we just need to escape this.

Maybe someone else remembers better, but I think Sawyer said that cover wasn't gonna work like it did in D&D. I can't remember if he said he was nerfing it, or removing it entirely, however. I think I've said this before, but as far as terrain bonuses go: stealth modifiers (stealthier in shrubbery, copse of trees, city shadows (we know environment shadows are fixed), than open land) -- stealth modifiers - whether or not you're sneaking, and independant of stealth skills - like shadows and cover, might increase defense elevation ( [ranged] attack bonus if attacking from higher ground) water (lower defense when slogging through; not likely to occur often, but could provide for interesting encounters / ambushes)

Well, what if your journal automatically recorded the "tidbits" we'll call them, but they were separate from the "obviously specifically related directly to a significant quest" stuff? So, whenever you were working on a quest (say, trying to find out what happened to some guy), you could flip over to your "random stuff I've overheard and whatnot" section, and flag/highlight/mark bits that you felt were potential leads for your current quest. Like "Suzy has been hearing strange noises in the barn at night, but her pa's been out to check it out, only to find nothing out of the ordinary." If that has any significance to anything in the game, I'd like to have it "automatically" recorded (assumed that my characters at least noted it somewhere) by the game's UI (journal). BUT, I just don't want the game sticking it under some quest title. "You have no idea what these sounds could be, but this UI's telling you that investigating them is DEFINITELY related to finding out what happened to this missing person." That's all a bit silly. Something like the chat log in Divinity 2? It was just a log that kept record of every single conversation you've had. All of it. It didn't have any ... psuedo-heuristics ... though to organize information (except by character). I don't know, speaking purely of personal preference, even a self-organizing journal of banter sounds ugly to me. I see what you're saying though; my idea of leaving implicit "quests" and vagueries to the player to record assumes that there will not be so much of it as to overwhelm the player, having them write whole essays in their journal. I still like that vagueries are left entirely to the player for measure of worth, but what if the chat UI implemented a "log" flag checkbox, such that you could flag any conversation you wish to recall later, and have it recorded in a tab of your journal? And if you overhear something worthy of note, you could just click the text above whomever's head to record it. This could be particularly useful for keeping track of, well, particulars - like geographic directions or step-by-step instructions from an NPC. Simple, intuitive, and doesn't bog your journal down with garbage (unless you do so yourself).

[...] I just want to prevent the immersion breaking meta-game thinking of "Oh, there's a journal entry about this, so I guess I have to check it out" knowing full well that there *HAS* to be something to it, or else it wouldn't be in my journal. I'm with rjshae on this one, and would input that I prefer the reverse method of red herrings. I don't want my journal to be filled with every conversation I have or overhear that may or may not have something to it, leaving me to wade through to find what is valid and what is not. As rjshae says, the red herrings themselves are sort of annoying, but moreso to me is having a journal filled with gobs of truely useless banter. Instead of filling my journal with every "quest" explicit and implicit, I think it better to just leave the latter out. When I talk to a farmer and he asks me to retrieve his stolen wheelbarrow an entry can go into my journal; there is no question that this is a task. If I overhear a couple of guards relating the inordinate rat problem in the sewers, no journal entry - it's my prerogative to determine if the information is worthy of attention or not. If I deem it is, I can make custom note in my journal. Likewise, if I read a book of lore and determine that there may be some secret hidden within its pages, I absolutely do not want a journal entry telling me about it, red herring or not. That alone defeats the non-metagamey purpose. If there is information there for me to find, trust that I can find it - I don't need nor want to be told explicitly what vagueties might lead to quests.

If PE's gonna have conditional companions, I'd prefer they'd be conditional in terms of faction relations or other important choices made, rather than arbitrary time requirments. The latter feels too artificial and forced to me, though I know that it portrays the fickle conditions of meeting others in real life. "Oh, sorry. You elected to complete a quest for villager A before speaking with the baron. Looks like you don't get this companion," feels to me like I'm getting the finger. If however a pair or more companions are exclusive to one another, such that I can only obtain certain ones depending on my reputation and faction relationships, or as "reward" for major choices, that's fine. This provides impetus for replaying a new character, as if I aligned with the Church to get Clair the first run, I can join a bandit camp to get Rodriguez the second.

You are not alone, friend. One of the devs began a topic to collect some opinions on this some time back, and the discussion may yet be open. At the time, it sounded like Obsidian was looking into a service called Desura for their DRM-free linux option, but humble bundle and even tarballs were discussed as well. Personally, if only GOG could release a linux version, that'd be my ideal. Humble Store agrees with me as well. Barring those, I'd have to concede to getting it via Steam, as Steam will give me both the Windows and Linux versions, and their DRM doesn't make my blood boil so much as others. I personally have no interest in Desura, as I'd almost certainly only be using it for the one game, and if it tanks, I'm screwed.

I like the water, the only thing I fear is that, in that third screenshot of yours, the water in a closed pool in a closed cavern might display surface movement in a single direction. I hate that.

NoSleepForTheWatcher.com I was just refreshing and clicking that little blue gem at the bottom of the backer portal. Thoughts?

There are probably many others like me who are just waiting for the workload on the site to fall, and for any bugs to be ironed out. Plus, I'm not so sure I want my pledge badges. I'm not much of a "bling" guy.