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And you have to admit I was right about his view on Greece....its weird to see an American, especially a Texan, supporting and justifying the Greeks failure to implement austerity. Only some people from the PIGS countries and people who are anti-Western would look at the Greek situation and seriously defend there lack of good governance I could lie to you and say " no Greece has a valid reason to not pay back the loans" but I don't like lying to people I respect Bruce not only did you fail to support your position with evidence, you failed to debunk mine and had to retreat to a "agree to disagree". As it stands my position that implementing austerity(most of which will impact workers) when Greece is facing 20%+ unemployment and declining real wages so that Greece can get an extension on a loan it can not pay off in its current state has gone unchallenged by fact, with rhetoric about balancing budgets and the glory of privatization being thrown around instead. Like I challenged you to do in the Greece thread, If I'm wrong prove it using facts.

Yeah, I brought this up three pages ago, but nobody seemed to much care and instead everyone got sidetracked by how Pao was a moderator on an anti-MRAs subreddit...that she actually wasn't. I thought the approach of encouraging diversity by removing wage negotiation was just an excuse to pay workers less, which is the issue I had with her. Though I don't really use reddit and don't intend to for the foreseeable future.

That... wouldn't be much of a progress from an artistic standpoint, would it. I don't think publishers putting out AAA games en masse particularly care about artistic progress. See Skyrim, Madden, and Call of Duty.

Yeah, given the result of the referendum his actions have been odd to say the least. I'm also a bit cynical that the solution being pressed by the Troika will just result in a Greece unable to pay it's debt(can't draw water from a dry well after all) with state owned property being privatized and Greeks wallowing in real wage stagnation and 20%+ unemployment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dooAjI6yOhg

The Thing(1982) I've decided to watch Carpenter's "Apocalypse Trilogy" in chronological order and started with this. While the effects haven't aged well, especially considering this movie predates my birth by ten years, it managed to entertain me quite a bit. I think the lack of exposition in terms of the alien's history or the various characters works quite well in establishing the feeling that anything breathing may be a facade for the alien, as there are no clues that outright show that anything is not what they seem leaving the viewer to be surprised when something happens. I also thought that the lack of a clear resolution was a good finish. I suppose it's on to Prince of Darkness now, does anyone know where I can find this?

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2015/07/exclusive-yanis-varoufakis-opens-about-his-five-month-battle-save-greece Yanis Varoufakis is not pleased.

You aren't misunderstanding. Gawker attacks women, such as posting Olivia Munn's texts and pictures, while related blogs in the Gawker family complain about various things. Won't even get into stuff like the Hogan sex tape, but it seems Gawker is fine with attacking people if they're the right target.

Yes, delusional people exist.

If you had some actual kielbasa on you it might work out in your favor. I could offer some haggis but I think that would go down badly.

Not really. Not only would going to jail suck, but her face looks a little weird to me. If you guys want to try handcuffs that badly, there's easier ways than getting arrested.

I haven't got around to backing this yet and am not sure I will.

Your sexual fetishes are your own thing man. At any rate I don't think I'm going to watch the video because I'd rather play vidya or watch something good with my time. I take it I'm not missing anything but the same talking points?

The ''Cro-Magnon'' was not responsible for the demise of the Neanderthal. That's just what I'd expect to hear from a Bro-Magnon ****lord.

I can't repeat our past discussion so I'll just summarize it You believe that a high employment rate should be considered as a factor of failure of austerity People like myself, the IMF and ECB don't consider that a serious factor towards measuring the progress and success of austerity You can see counties like Ireland and Spain making progress and meeting certain austerity objectives, there economies grow. This is recognized by the global economic community ( I posted links ) These countries are seen as having done something positive around the restructuring of there economies You dismiss this as you say they still have high unemployment rates We are at an impasse Seeing as the proposed austerity measures will directly increase unemployment in Greece due to laying off government employees, I think it's quite fair to consider the effect austerity has on unemployment an issue with austerity. Not to mention the various fees targeted at citizens the EU hopes to introduce, which is likely to reduce spending in markets due to having less available funds. And that isn't even touching how in the link you provided to praise the effects of austerity in Spain it outright says that the recovery hasn't had an effect on standard of living of citizens. Which brings us to the question of why austerity is a good idea in an economy with declining real wages and over 20% unemployment, if by all accounts austerity will exacerbate those problems?

So your argument is that unemployment doesn't matter? And that states shouldn't consider it when implementing austerity? And we should consider austerity a success despite continued high levels of debt because banks are doing better now? Because that's the most insane thing posted on these forums including romance threads and oby.

If you can prove it, then go ahead. As it is, I've provided data to support the view that austerity doesn't deal with unemployment and have argued that short-term issues, such as unemployment, should be addressed and solved before long-term issues. In response, you've provided nothing to support your statements. It should be pretty clear you won't be able to convince me with emotional arguments so if you want to prove me wrong you'll have to prove that austerity measures will result in a more stable economy than stimulation when dealing with a depressed economy. My views on Greece are influenced by the evidence I've seen, not a long-winded New Zealand resident or a sassy bloke who is too leet for me. This may surprise you, but I developed most of my opinions outside of these forums. And a middle-aged libertarian who likes to fight in tunnels or a pro-EU Finn are not going to be biased? How so? So my views should be determined by the state I was born and not by independent thought? Fair enough, you don't seem to be influenced by others and you did your own research so I take that back I think we have reached an impasse on this debate around the whole unemployment relevance. Its fundamental to our views on austerity and one of us has to either agree its relevant or recognize its not. And I'm not going to admit its relevant in the context of the austerity metrics so lets just agree to disagree and engage in the next one So you're unable to back up your opinions with facts. Good to know.

If you can prove it, then go ahead. As it is, I've provided data to support the view that austerity doesn't deal with unemployment and have argued that short-term issues, such as unemployment, should be addressed and solved before long-term issues. In response, you've provided nothing to support your statements. It should be pretty clear you won't be able to convince me with emotional arguments so if you want to prove me wrong you'll have to prove that austerity measures will result in a more stable economy than stimulation when dealing with a depressed economy. My views on Greece are influenced by the evidence I've seen, not a long-winded New Zealand resident or a sassy bloke who is too leet for me. This may surprise you, but I developed most of my opinions outside of these forums. And a middle-aged libertarian who likes to fight in tunnels or a pro-EU Finn are not going to be biased? How so? So my views should be determined by the state I was born and not by independent thought?

Unemployment is a key indicator of economic health, which you were arguing has improved under austerity in Spain and Ireland. I countered with an example of a state, Iceland, that has been performing much better than Spain or Ireland when they did the opposite of austerity. I'll admit to having a hard time understanding what you're saying most of the time so perhaps you weren't arguing that austerity resulted in a better economy for Spain and Ireland. The objective of austerity is to extract money from an economy. If the motive behind this action is to return stability, they are failing badly because unemployment is part of economic stability and the debt situation is no closer to being addressed in a sustainable manner. At any rate, I reject the ideology behind pushing for austerity in a depressed economy. Getting people working and the standard of living rising should be the top priority when facing a depressed economy. Austerity in this situation just compounds economic misery and prevents a long-term solution to debt from being enacted due to Greece constantly lacking the funds to make payments without borrowing. Seeing as they've done nothing to help citizens and quite a bit to harm them, it's quite clear that those pushing for austerity were not concerned with unemployment and standard of living in general. As to the free market riding in on Ayn Rand and saving the day with its magical powers after austerity makes everything "fiscally responsible', that is a pipe dream. In reality, corporations and banks will buy whatever Greece privatizes and charge more while paying less to employees while people have to accept working for less due to less benefits and more fees. I certainly can, given that several austerity measures would increase unemployment by cutting government employees. If it causes more unemployment in a depressed economy, I'm going to consider it to be a terrible idea. If "failure to reform" means that Greece will not cut the legs off their economy when it is already half dead, then I fully advocate Greece failing to reform because it's the sensible and moral thing to do. Greece has an economy that is in the gutter, largely caused by adopting a less competitive currency and developing a large trade deficit which proved extremely damaging to its main industries. Extracting money through austerity is the last thing Greece should be doing in this situation because it will compound and extend short-term economic issues like unemployment and declining real wages and make long-term issues like debt harder to address. It's ironic that those pushing for austerity claim to be interested in "fiscal responsibility" and getting Greece to pay its debts, yet the policies they are advocating for will keep Greece from growing its economy and being able to have the money to actually pay debts.

Are you seriously trying to make an argument that unemployment isn't a key indicator of economic health outside the US because the president doesn't rely on it to campaign? Unemployment and real wages are the key indicators for the economic health of citizens. Private corporations being able to turn a larger profit is a hollow victory while half of young people are jobless and what jobs there are pay less than before. No, I was judging it based on Iceland which did not do austerity but rather went for stimulation. And it worked out far better for them than austerity did for the successful example you gave, let alone how its worked out for Spain and Greece. There was a complete recovery , or more complete, for Iceland. You know how they pulled it off? They forgave mortgage debts, indicted private banks rather than bailing them out, and provided support for the poor. Which is exactly the opposite of what EU austerity has done over the last five years and judging by the effects it's clear that austerity does not result in growth and is an awful idea for a depressed economy.

Are you seriously using Spain as an example of austerity working? There is over 20% unemployment and real wages have been declining since 2008. If that's austerity working then it doesn't seem to be able to help workers. Ireland has an unemployment rate of 9.7% and real wages have been declining since 2009. Not doing as badly as Italy or Spain is a rather weak achievement. http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=AV_AN_WAGE Not to mention the effects the cuts and regressive taxes had on people: http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/irelands-austerity-success-is-no-model-for-greece-340662.html Comparatively we have Iceland which did not pursue austerity and has an unemployment of 4.7%(less than half of Ireland) and has seen real wages increase since 2008. http://www.statice.is/?PageID=1251&src=https://rannsokn.hagstofa.is/pxen/Dialog/varval.asp?ma=VIS04004%26ti=Real+wages%2C+index+1989-2015+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++%26path=../Database/visitolur/launavisitala/%26lang=1%26units=Index/percent It's pretty clear that austerity measures don't help the economy. And that was after Germany attacked Greece and killed a lot of them.

If it's fallacious prove why austerity is good and Greece is wrong. Compounded by adopting the Euro which caused a large trade deficit. Not to mention that the money from the bailouts have largely gone to financial institutions rather than Greeks. http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/7/1/greek-bailout-money-went-to-banks-not-greece.html Austerity isn't needed, quite the contrary it's actively harmful to a depressed economy. The terms Germany is pushing for won't result in a Greece that is able to pay its debts, if the last five years have been any indication it will just perpetuate the situation of slow growth and kick the can down the road.

Yes because destroying the economy and causing citizens to suffer because you accepted terms to impose austerity on an already depressed economy so you can get a loan you couldn't pay back is a very responsible thing to do. The former finance minister spoke of three ways Greece could pay off its debt in a sustainable manner in the video Messhugger linked, if you don't think he's right feel free to argue why he's wrong. But it's good to know you think democracy is bad when people don't vote how you want them to. Yes, Germany has really been ****ing things up the last few years. Anyways the referendum has plenty to do with self-rule which is a key component of freedom. Which given the posts the last few pages is what people are talking about ITT.

Not sure if it's been posted yet, but from the horse's mouth: http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/06/minister-no-more/#more-8433 Funny, but not surprising. Say what you will about Bruce, but he's consistent about his disdain for self-rule and freedom.