Razsius

Yea Druid spells do almost reasonable damage. Edit: As a side note, any Druid build is pretty broken because of all their cc spells.

You forgot Sneak Attack (x2 damage) Sen . Grab the exceptional estoc (probably the best weapon in the beta) from the brigand group near the dragon egg for maximum pwnage. Seeing as how I find myself quoted from another thread I think I should probably explain my rational on the perception vs. might issue. The problem with the calculation on grazes and criticals is that they are both calculated *before* armor resolves. So a graze would look something like this with an "average" damage of 35 on a high armor target: Acc:30 - Def.:25 = 5. Roll: 40 + 5 = 45 (graze). 17.5 - D.T.:15 - D.R.:20% = 2 damage Whereas a critical would look like this: Acc:30 - Def:25 = 5. Roll: 95 + 5 = 100 (critical). 52.5 - D.T.: 15 - D.R.:20% = 30 damage If we add a single point of might to this equation then the 2 damage hit would gain a .04 damage increase and the critical hit would gain a 0.6 damage increase. Meanwhile, a single point of perception gains a 1% increase to avoiding the graze scenario and a 1% increase to getting the critical hit scenario. Considering the graze does 15 times less damage than the critical hit you'd have to be out of your bloody mind to think i'm going to choose the might point over the point of perception. This is what i meant by "consistency" in that post. As a side note, am I the only one completely underwhelmed by the PoE wizard's damage. I had BB Wizard lob a fireball at a couple beetles only to watch it miss on one and graze for 26 on another. I honestly wanted to cry at that point. Seriously what's the point of vancian magic at this rate? In BG, if I threw a fireball into a group at level 5 it would have a much larger AoE as well as usually killing half the group and putting the rest into critical status. Anyone got an op wizard build or are they as underwhelming as I think they are?

So you are using a 2H weapon on your rogue? It's not like rogues usually use 1h weapons or anything crazy retards trying to use smallish weapons on a character class known for smaller more precise weapons. Guess they haven't gotten around to balancing weapon damage. What is the issue with 1h weapons atm in your opinion? Arbalest actually (guns almost never drop for me). It's standard procedure for me to use rogues in my back line which is sort of a carry over from how I played them in BG series and IWD. I usually outfit my BB Fighter with the larger shield from BB Priest then swap his one hand to a hachet (though it probably doesn't work right now). When he sits at ~70 deflection or ~90 with the defense buff up enemies miss and graze all day every day on him. The nice thing about outfitting the rogue with a ranged weapon is you can actually get sneak attacks off from the back line which is bloody nice. It took maybe 2 attempts at the original release of the backer beta for me to realize bows and 1 handed weapons just weren't doing much. About the only 1 hander that's going to pack any punch at all is the mace with it's -5 DT and non-dagger damage range but I haven't seen it aside from character creation. Ironically, BB Fighter still manages to do some damage even though I gear him full tank. I'd say his high might and confident aim play a big part. For example, I always start with Barbarian as my go to testing character. He's definitely not the strongest character class but I always try a dual wield build with him and it just doesn't work. I was dueling a fine spear + fine stiletto with him and doing anywhere from okay to junk damage depending on whether I was beating on spiders or beetles. They finally added decent loot to the brigands near the dragon egg so I looted the exceptional estoc and gave it to my Barb even though he was specifically built for the dual wield. He started destroying thereafter regularly criting in the 60s with a less than ideal might range. I'd say the biggest problem with the "fast" weapons is that DT can absolutely gut the damage range of them. When you damage range is between 12-20 a stone beetle's 15 DT is going to ruin your day and that's before the DR kicks in. I'd say DT on just about everything is just too bloody high. I don't want it completely removed like Sen but significantly toned down. In a perfect world for example armors would look something like this: Robe - 0 DT and DR but a baseline 5% casting speed buff Monk Robe - 0 DT and DR but a baseline 5% attack speed buff Padded Armor - 1 DT, maybe starts ~10% DR range, 5% RT penalty Hide Armor - 2 DT, ?% DR, 10% RT penalty Leather Armor - 3 DT, ?% DR, 15% RT penalty (the RT penalty is halved right here and it has the current robe's RT penalty) Scale Armor - 4 DT, ?% DR, 20% RT penalty, potential bonus DR on select attacks for being a metal based armor Breast Plate - 5 DT, ?% DR, 25% RT penalty, potential bonus DR (as above) Chain Mail - 6 DT, ?%DR, 30% RT penalty, potential bonus DR (as above) Brigandine - 7 DT, ?%DR, 35% RT penalty, potential bonus DR (as above) Full Plate - 8 DT, ?%DR, 40% RT penalty, potential bonus DR (as above) Wildlife should take into account those values as well. So maybe Stone beetle starts at 10 DT rather than 15 and spiders are ~1-2 rather than 5. The baseline DT should be applied to all attacks as currently depending on damage type an armor will have a different value. Scale armor currently has a DT of 9 but only 4 on a piercing attack right now. It should be closer to Fallout's system with DT accounting for all attacks then the % decrease based on the damage type (maybe even -% depending on damage). Lastly, fine + exceptional modifiers should increase the DR rather than the DT on armors because that's the universal damage reduction stat anyways. After all that maybe fast weapons still need a buff but who knows.

BB Rogue has 2 abilities Minor Threat and Dirty Fighting that effectively increase your crit range by 20%. BB Rogue also has Reckless Assault Modal which increases damage by 20% and gives an additional 10 accuracy. Sneak Attacks deal x2 damage (supposedly) and Crippling Strike has a 1.25 damage modifier and that's not even mentioning Deathblows. BB Rogue also has nearly double the base accuracy of everyone else with the modal up. But none of these % increases matter at all if you're dumb enough to be using one-handed weapons or a bow right now. My BB Rogue crit a wurm for 369 damage. Do you think anyone else could even come close to that? The only time BB Fighter should be out damaging BB Rogue is if you don't know how to use BB Rogue.

You want to see something amazing Fiebras give BB Rogue the arbalest which I believe is spelled R-O-C-K-E-T L-A-U-N-C-H-E-R. She'll be 1-2 shotting basically everything in the backer beta. Personally, despite whatever math Matt comes up with it has become readily apparent that accuracy is king as it gives far more consistent damage. Accuracy isn't just +to hit after all but it's also +to crit. Grazes are generally your worst nightmare and since they fall into the 6-50 range it's rather easy to get them. On the other hand critical strikes are your best friend but are hard to get. Abilities like confident aim and dirty fighting make a noticeable difference in how well your Fighter and Rogue respectively do in combat. I'd take consistency over the chance to do more damage every single time. I think might only outperforms perception when accuracy is a non-factor.

So limited AoE is OK, but fighting with bows is out of the question? If I'm not mistaken BB Fgihter has an Arbalest. WTF are you talking about? He's saying that Fighters have crappy base Ranged Accuracy, therefore Ranged is really not a good option for them. Which is true. You can build a ranged Fighter, but it's going to be inferior to a ranged Ranger pretty much every time. The Fighter class is designed for the front. That said, I still don't think PER is a bad option for Fighters - even though Range is a bad stat for them, Accuracy makes up for that. So IMO the design goals do not fail in that instance. Actually, might want to check out character creation in the latest patch as they've either accidentally forgotten to give ranged and melee accuracy or they rolled it all into one stat thus normalizing the baseline accuracy the classes get. That aside i'd still give the arbalest to my Rogue right now. I'm just happy the combat log is finally starting to make sense. I did kind of suspect last patch that armors had some sort of DT % reduction due to lore on mobs. Still, would it be too much to ask to not have 1 handed weapons *not* totally suck . Edit: 25 now I guess...

Hmm I miscounted for that first pull of yours Sen they did take away a single wood beetle (well I was counting the stray wood beetle) and moved the second stone beetle along with the only wood left. But as far as I can tell at least two of the other beetle encounters are exactly the same. No, wait, looks like they moved that wood beetle to the top pack so it's a 3 pull now. So not really nerfed all around just tweaked. I'm not sure I like the new health bars. The neon green makes it easier to see but...

That's a small misrepresentation on Sen's part. The pack he's referring to is the first beetle pack he pulls in his Sensuki vs. The Beetles videos which consists of 2 stone beetles and 2 wood beetles. You can now pull that pack as 2 stone then 1 wood then a second wood beetle. So they are unlinked now and you can make it 3 pulls instead of 1. Same total amount of enemies from what i've seen so far. The maps are just as cramped as you remember them. As a side note, my BB Rogue is absolutely DESTROYING anything that so much as looks at her. Crit a wurm for 369 damage. Think the accuracy buff might've made her stronger but i'm unsure. Edit: Patch notes are in the announcements forum.

Lol I just tested it ~22 seconds from the exit to the inn entrance. Which coincidentally enough is about your video's time as well. Don't I feel like an idiot... Edit: Sen's got enough street cred that we just take him at his word (which is just fine mind you).

Sen I don't even know what to say. I'm pretty sure if someone cut you you'd just bleed IE code. I remember how my first impressions of the BB was how it didn't remind me at all of the IE games. Meanwhile, you change run speed on a whim and *nail* it first time. I mean.. I don't even.. GRAH!! PoE maestro indeed.

What's illogical about Might being representative of strength and magic drawing power from physical strength? Yea that certainly *would* come from you Matt wouldn't it. What else can one expect from a guy with Alex Louise Armstrong as his avatar. After all Might is passed down through the Armstrong line for generations .

I'm aware. Baldur's Gate is certainly no Diablo series (oh the abominations that are arpgs) hence my quotes around the word action. Would you prefer the term combat oriented? Regardless, there's still lots of fighting and PoE definitely continues on with that tried and true "statement." I mean when you walk like 4 steps into the Dyrwood Crossing zone and hit two packs of beetles... pretty sure there's going to be killing. Mutonizer definately hit the nail on the head. I mean your diplomatic options tend to be sparse at best. Also i'm pretty sure that at the very least for the ogre quest you actually get more xp for going the non-combat route. So not only are you barely rewarded for taking the path of greater resistance but you get much more for taking the easy way out. I wasn't even building a talky character and i still got the option of talking my way out of the fight for a big fat chunk of extra xp. This was probably the biggest letdown of my 6 hour playthrough. I think I said to myself "Well... that was anti-climatic." Meanwhile, I see a huge chunk of xp pop into my log and everyone's gained another level. Let's just say the feeling was a tad different than the BG 1 or 2 experience I had. My problem with quest xp is that the 2 games i've played with exclusive quest xp have combat that is boring beyond belief. V:tm is great... until you fight anything really and then it's just super easy and thus mostly pointless. It also has perhaps the worst section in a video game ever created in the sewer system with 8 zillion of the little vampire, alien critter things all running around that you have a viable lore based reason to kill and you get zip loot and the exact same xp as a malk stealthing through the whole thing. SRR is the second game and I slept through the combat on "hard." When you streamline the xp system so that there is no variance then there's no variable difficulty really. I assume the developers thought I would be at a certain level when I hit each area but because they had left little room for "error" due to railroaded xp rewards what they thought would be hard ended up with a yawn fest for me. Seeing as how I derive my gaming enjoyment with actual challenge I do very much mind if you happen to be off the mark. With a less controlled xp system you're allowed to be over or under leveled as both can be corrected through the player's actions.

I did a considerable amount of combat testing the other day. Almost 6 straight hours to be exact. Saved *very* few times and didn't load a single time so the playthrough was mostly bug free. The more I played the more I realized that combat at this time is simply not fun. Aside from the fact that I can now basically "tweak" the difficulty of my playthrough based on the class I select at character creation, I have found ways to make any particular fight more or less difficult based on what I do so i can somewhat simulate difficulty that *should* be fun for me. I say should simply because it's not (fun that is). Combat currently is one of two things: pointlessly easy mowing down of enemies which reflects the "reward" you get from them or a difficult slogfest that reminds you of an mmo without any xp in it. The few times I feel that it was a good, reasonable, difficult and balanced challenge that actually gives me satisfaction is the same moment i realized I just looted 6 spider venom sacs for my effort. Don't even get me started on the underground cultist cavern... talk about the very definition of a pointless grind. Let's be honest here the Baldur's Gate series was a series of murder hobo games. You killed things lots and lots and LOTS of things. By it's very nature it is was an "action" rpg. Why then does combat in Pillars of Eternity feel like the most pointless thing in the world to do?

We have a bunch of people saying "yeah, AoE increase doesn't really seem that valuable", mostly because the marginal increase can be a liability. Allowing you to scale it down solves the liability problem, but also means that in those circumstances, you get literally no benefit from it at all. I still really don't get why this is such a spot of resistance when making the margins safe doesn't remove friendly fire, it makes INT valuable all the time instead of sometimes being a liability, and it doesn't require adding a UI layer on top of the system just to regulate AoE sizes. I fail to see why the range of abilities can't scale with the AoE on the Intellect stat. Would be really nice to be able to "bombard" enemies with my Wizard and gives the stat potential use on some single target ranged abilities. Edit: Some abilities feel way to short ranged anyways.

It shouldn't be IMO. I don't think the "no bad builds" philosophy need extend to cases where the player voluntarily decides not to distribute character points. (Right now it kind of is because the attributes lack oomph, but I understand that's about to change.) My sentiments exactly but if we take the "swing" that Josh was talking about where it's best to double or half everything then a swing of like 30 accuracy (+2 accuracy per point of Per) everything is going to feel absurd. On a d20 system that's like +6 to hit along with "+6 to crit" and "-6 to graze." Maybe some of the bases are too high? Perhaps we get too much accuracy per level up right now I don't know but regardless even small increases have a large swing. It's why Sen and Matt proposed lowering baseline deflection in line with the change. Btw what's next after this Sen?

I suppose what i'm getting at is: is a build of like 3 in every attribute "viable" as well? Personally, I think 15 less accuracy would really hurt but maybe others can get it to work. I think it should at least be somewhat important that the attributes themselves feel like they have some signficance. While, I understand that the system is going to promote not punishing you for making the "wrong" choice. I do think 3 of every attribute + race + culture bonuses should be considered a "bad build." As for 13 in every attribute I believe it would very much work and i'm perfectly okay with that. Edit: I'd consider being able to click past assigning any points at all to be a design error is all.

Bloody superb guys. Looking through all that it sort of makes me understand that the attributes system is a very closed but very balanced system in and of itself. What I mean is that going from 17 to 18 Might is "only" a 2% increase in damage. Seeing as how damage ranges in PoE seems to be so much broader than what i'm used to it makes the stats in general feel less impactful despite the fact that I know a swing of like 10 accuracy or 10 deflection is *huge*. One accuracy tends to be hard for me to quantify or "feel" as a gamer. Ten, however, is rather noticeable. Is there any credence to the statement that the attributes themselves don't matter at all (or much)?

No, that's completely untrue. If you have a spell in just about any rpg that can prevent 50 damage or a spell that can heal 150 there is a choice you can make regarding which to use because they both will keep your main resource (your health, hp, whatever) from reaching a zero state. They both "prevent" death. Alternatively, in PoE if you have that exact same spell scenario the prevent 50 damage spell is a sure win every single time. The only time healing in PoE becomes a "tactical" value is when you're taking more damage then you can prevent to outlast whatever the encounter may be as realistically you will continue to take damage unless the fight has already ended. In that sense, the real problem is that you didn't execute the fight strategically enough as cc, buffs, bubbles, high deflection, high DT, etc. can all help you in never reaching a state where you "need" healing. I'll have to remember this the next time I play The Banner Saga. You know just because something *can* change doesn't necessarily mean something *should* change. Here I was thinking i'd get a spiritual successor to the IE games.. silly me whatever was I thinking. I'd personally wear anything else really as it has the explicit problem of making it look like you aren't taking a ton of damage when you really are and yes as I've said a few times now preventing that damage is a helluva lot better idea then healing your stamina. Thus, a belt with DT, Deflection, stats in general, etc. are all a *much* better idea.

I stated that damage prevention is *always* better than healing. The tactical and strategic resources thing only comes into account if there isn't something that affects both but there is. Damage prevention helps you in the short term it *also* helps you in the long term. "Bubbles" are already in this game they just take the form of things like the Priest's Blessing spell. There is no thought on when one uses a heal currently. It's as a last resort when you've used all your your damage prevention methods. I don't heal poison damage I use suppress affliction period end of story. Healing isn't so much a poison but it's the equivalent of treating a symptom rather than reaching a cure or preventing the spread of a disease. It is, by design, *always* the wrong choice. You have to remember that not every player is going to be playing with a separate monitor running an excel spreadsheet. Players naturally think healing is a good idea (because it's been that way forever). It simply is not in PoE. It is, by design, a trap as things currently stand. Real cute. Then tell me why would you use something like the Trollhide belt?

Matt I really think you're great man but you've incorrectly identified the problem. The problem is not that it is directly better to let someone faint instead of healing him but that healing itself is essentially "degenerative" in the current health/stamina system. The reason why allowing a member to faint *might* be a better tactic is that it stops the incoming damage to the health pool you are unable to heal. The *real* problem is that it is essentially 100% of the time better to prevent damage rather than heal it. Healing currently acts like a very slow acting poison in a sense that you treat an immediate problem at the expense of your long term "health". Currently in the beta the Belt of Trollhide is the single least useful item because it is a trap. That 6 stamina a second regen sounds amazing until you actually equip it and realize what it does long term to the character it is equipped on. Your solutions with the exception of 1 will not do anything to remedy this. Solution 1 is a different variant of extending the health/stamina ratio. If only healing affects the rate of returned health than it becomes a pointless meta game of prevent the most damage possible *then* use your biggest area heal to top everyone off at the end of the fight. If the stamina regain at the end of a fight also gives you back a portion of health then it is simply an extension of making the health bar longer. Neither of which addresses that damage prevention is the new "healing". Solution 2 doesn't address the issue at all really and instead provides even less incentive to take damage in the first place. Solution 3 is pretty much the exact same thing as solution 2. Solution 4 actually solves the issue. Until solution 4 takes effect and health/stamina either goes the way of the dodo or gets a complete redesign healing will be simply a "newb trap." I'd like to think that would qualify as degenerate design and one of the things Josh was trying to avoid.

I don't know why but "Sensuki vs. The Beatles" sounds like the name of a band. But yea, maps have entirely too many encounters in them. I mean you've got what 1/4 of a screen in the crossing before you hit a beatle pack? Way too much density for my liking.

The obvious response to this "Ok." Obsidian isn't getting more money from people logging more hours in a game, why does it matter if people stop playing the game? This is assuming the narrative content is strong enough for people to enjoy finishing the game? Because that's exactly what the Baldur's Gate series didn't do? I, for one, have replayed the series many a time. Did it really help Bioware's pocketbook at all? No it did not, but I do remember them as the great company that delivered that experience to me and it makes me more inclined to buy their games.

Heh I totally remember that. Ah BG the many small things you had that I now seem to miss so much. My problem with the music isn't even whether it's any good (it is) or not but rather that it trys so hard to be subtle it basically doesn't tell me anything. I've sat there and listened time and time again to the opening PoE theme and yet not only can i never recall it in my memory but i still don't know what the game is "about." I think this sort of style is perfectly fine in the more open ended games like the TES series but BG and the like had music that practically throttled you before you even entered in game telling you *exactly* what you're getting into. I find this affects my entire playing experience. At character creation i'm hit with a very melodic yet slightly reminiscent of Morrowind type music. It's *very* nice (I love Morrowind) but it still doesn't tell me much as it's a very "open" type music I can tell none of the history, none of the "setting" that the town is in. I find my play experience to be slightly directionless because of it and thus really couldn't care less about this particular way station. As a contrast in a completely different style I got done fairly recently playing a game I thought would only be a pretty good game. Boy was I wrong. Some 2-3 minutes in you get this track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaHEPuPX1lY&list=PL222455AF5CAD6AC0 You know *exactly* where you are going after that track. But probably the best part is there's quite a lot of stuff hidden in that track as well. There's a track on that ost called Silver Will. It plays in a pretty epic boss fight with an enemy that you should essentially know absolutely nothing about and yet... I find myself in understanding with said antagonist because his theme is absurdly meaningful. I think i might have to disagree with Justin on his choice in style. I don't want a melodic soundtrack I want video game music. Music that shapes the game it's a part of. Though I admit I wasn't being fair posting music by Falcom but still if Grotesque can post fricken Ghost in the Shell I can do Falcom badassery.

Yea the Skaen(sp?) Temple Guards are pretty wack their lowest DT is crushing at like 20.5 and they have like 114 Deflection baseline. Basically means you do 4-5 damage on a good hit but mostly you graze for like 1.5 - .50 damage.

There's already a fatigue mechanic in play right now in the beta. I'm not even sure why there's an argument about this. The health mechanic adds nothing but frustration to the game. The "frustration level" being how much damage an enemy can do to you before you have to start worrying about a health pool you currently can't interact with in combat. Edit: You know now that i think about it. This thing is *very* similar to the frenzy mechanic on WoW raid bosses. Only this frenzy timer follows you everywhere, isn't attached to a set time limit, dictates how you "should" play and only resets when you rest. What a god awful mechanic. Why does this game feel so streamlined and why am I so annoyed by that .