smithereen

I voted, but I'm still second-guessing myself. Planescape: Torment, the Mass Effect series, The Sith Lords, both Dragon Age, Mask of the Betrayer, and Shadows of Amn all had some of my favorites, but with the exception of Torment (hence the vote), some I was not too fond of either. Warning: incoming pretentious, badly-written rant. A lot of buzzwords get bandied about when talking about character writing, like 'depth,' 'realism,' and 'reactivity,' without much explanation. 'Depth,' I think, should go without saying, but can more appropriately be described as 'pacing.' If I'm to care about a character in a work of fiction, I need to know enough to be interested in knowing more, over the course of the game entirely, without getting bogged down or over-saturated with information. 'Realism,' I think, usually means 'believability.' Characters don't need to be realistic, per sey (For example, I've never met anybody like Morte or Fall-From-Grace), but they need to 'feel' real and be plausible for the world they exist in. More than anything else, I think this depends on being (deep breath) what most people define as well-written. Flawed, multifaceted, motivated, not entirely self-aware... yup. More buzzwords, and entirely subjective. And 'reactive.' This means reacting to the world, and (often in service to the player's ego) to the player. Having dialogue, not monologue, and being a truly dynamic character, evolving (dare I say it) realistically over the course of the game. In my opinion, this does not mean necessarily evolving differently on different playthroughs, as this is not always an efficient use of resources, but non-static characterization is a must. Charisma, personality, and sex appeal can go a long way towards making a character interesting and memorable, but again, these aren't a must. To me, it might be most important that characters reflect the theme of their work. For example, in Mass Effect, 'the Squad's' diversity was it's strength - each character brought one of their race's unique perspectives. In Dragon Age II, Anders and Merril represented how terrifying mages can be - Merril was the cause of the Templar oppression, but Anders was the result. And in Planescape: Torment, each character was the product of their unique brand of torture, often inflicted by the Nameless One himself. Misery loves company.

"As an aside, how do you feel about dialogue trees making explicit the skills or stats being checked?" Smithereen scratches his beard. "From the top of my head, the Neverwinter Nights series clearly highlighted both skill checks and 'special' results, while Torment didn't identify anything. I certainly wasn't a fan of the Paragon and Renegade 'click for best results' system in Mass Effect, but I do want to be sure when I'm making a diplomacy roll." 1. ['Like' this post] 2. (Diplomacy) 3. [Provide examples] 4. [ignite Flamethrower] "This is the stupidest post I've read all day!"

Anyone else pledge to Ghost Song or Monochrome?

I have no issue buying it on Origin. Steam, while nice, is getting a bit too monopolistic for my taste.

Smithereen peruses the thread. "Interesting," he states, "I never really have given much thought to this subject. I find prose-style to be the most natural, but that's probably just what I am used to, since I encourage speaking that way in my tabletop roleplaying group." 1. [Nod] 2. (Diplomacy) "Let me rid you of a few misconceptions..." 3. [ignite Flamethrower] "You'll pay for that!"

I would like to see tangible, story consequences for placing the PC/party is as much danger as possible. I don't think clicking "Run, I'll hold them off!" and then save-scumming until you win every battle should be the fast-track to the best ending.

I agree. While reading Update 60, my mind wandered to Omar and Bubbs from The Wire. I would be careful that your expectations don't get set too high though, as it's widely agreed that The Wire had some of the best character development of any filmed drama. ) Chris, can you comment on if the companion writers plan to include themes of addiction? Outcasts, addiction, redemption.. even characters who fall from grace precisely BECAUSE they associate with the PC (kinda like Dak'kon, but you really just get to debase him even further, he doesn't start in 'grace').. these are themes I've been looking for in RPG companions. We've had at least a few like this recently. The example of Kaelyn the Dove stands out the most, I think, of a companion who's experiences with the PC can have a hugely negative impact on her life. Most of the party in KotOR2 I think could qualify as well.

*gritty film noir voice* "We're not getting the Project Eternity we were led to believe was on the horizon. We're getting the one we deserve."

If you think 300 is a damagingly inaccurate movie, try The Patriot. You would be amazed how many people believe that ****.

Mounts need to be in more PCRPGs.

More reactivity is not ego-stroking..

Alright, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, I guess.

Oy vey, putting AC right next to ME. Dem's fight words. I don't follow.

Well put.

1. Planescape: Torment - yeah. Needs no explaination on these forums 2. The Sith Lords (w/ Restored Content mod) - yeah 3. The Total War series (usually modded) - Brilliant strategy games. Often challenging; each game tells a story. 4. Alpha Centauri - Also amazing. Truly frighting science fiction narrative; up there with Heinlein and Clark, all in a Civilization game. 5. The Mass Effect series - yeah 6. Amnesia: The Dark Descent - Terrifying. 7. Mask of the Betrayer - yeah 8. Human Revolution - great RPG. Ending was a little on the weak side. 9. Baldur's Gate series - yeah 10. Knights of the Old Republic - yeah. Aside from The Twist, the plot was quite straightforward and some characters were a little flat. But still, one of the best RPGs of it's generation. I think the common element is games that don't talk down to their audience, are unique, and tell a great story. I also love games that don't use gameplay for gameplay's sake, like Amnesia, Torment and the strategy games listed.

Fargo's bad attitude, and using nostalgia for a cash grab. Not that I don't support this game (I'll pledge $100), but the operation has pretty pretty classless.

I'll wait to see the pitch. And if MCA is a stretch goal... well let's just say I might need another mortgage.

^ You are missing out, Heresiarch. While DnD3.5 and I have our differences, Mask of the Betrayer has the best plot of any RPG since Planescape: Torment. Give it another shot. Do it. As to the OP - replayility is a bonus, but I think it has far less to do with mechanics, and more with ensuring that not all content is available (or at least, readily available) on each playthrough. Sure, I probably won't play the same class on my second or third run through a game, but I won't replay a game at all if I don't think I'll see different character interaction, dialogue, setting exposition, etc. Interestingly enough, I am dead smack in the middle of my third playthrough of The Sith Lords, and I've already learned far more about the Handmaiden than I ever did before. Prying new secrets from my companions has kept me far more engaged in the game than anything else could have. On the other hand, I certainly appreciate a game that can remain challenging on a second playthrough. PS: I should probably try out your mod.

Quirkly lines like the thread title should be limited to once per hundred - the rest should be a lot more understated.

I would love it if people noticed if I put off doing their quests - If I promised to rescue somebody's daughter from the wilderness, and I started poking around six weeks later, I should be known as an unreliable ****.

Rogues should NOT be able to hide behind nothing in plain daylight, or at least this should be at least two orders of magnitude more difficult than hiding in undergrowth, in the middle of a forest, at midnight.

Your party is more focused on stealth and social interaction than in dishing out raw, physical damage. You know the Foozle Lord is in the cave. You buff your party in anticipation of combat and enter the cave. SURPRISE--you're treated to a long monologue or interogavtive session by/with the Foozle Lord during which half of your buffs expire. You now have a hell of a long fight ahead of you and you're probably looking at having to re-load 4 or 5 times as the Foozle Lord is one tough hombre. Crap like this is not fun; rather, it is aggravating and pointless. You made the right call in buffing before you entered the cave, but the forced chit-chat nullified your tactical decision to go in fully prepared for a fight. This is poor game design, plain and simple. ...so... wouldn't it make more sense to write in an "*attack him*" option into the dialogue tree when he spots you, instead of pretending the universe is fair and making the duration on all of your buffs pause when it's convenient?

Why should buffs not run down in cutscenes? That doesn't make any sense...

The best campaigns I ever ran had NPCs heavily involved with the party, and often fighting together with them. If they don't turn into a Mary Sue, they can add a tonne of flavour.

Yes, but you should still face the logical consequences of your decisions. If you give away the Magic Sword of Awesomeness, you should not be handed a better one. You should not, in my opinion, get more XP for doing so, either. It should be harder to finish the game if your PC keeps handicapping himself.