Mamoulian War

I think you need to do some research on current computer technology, bro, and stop relying on what existed when you first started selling computers. The same thing apply to current PC customers aswell... You would be surprised how many PC owners, if you offered them GPU for free and let them chose from Asus Nvidia EN7950GT/HTDP/512M and Asus ATI EAH4870 DK/HTDI/512MD5, without access to any outside help, will choose the nvidia card just because "it has bigger number, it must be better" reason. EDIT: (Or because they heard from someone that Nvidia is always the best choice for graphics). /EDIT It's realy crazy, that so many PC savvy poeple cannot look through the eyes of common person who do understand PC computing as much as quantum physics (i am not affraid to say that about 75-85% of all people look at computers that way) And i am not your bro...

Yes we all know that you are able to do that, but the difference between you and me (and anyone on this forum) and a random PC buyer, ist that the random PC buyer have absolutely no clue about what all these numbers and letters means, except the numbers right before €. One of the best posts summing all that up is this one from bioware off topic forums: You can do that, sure, but the entire dialogue is would still be incommensurable. The problem isn't that most casual buyers are unsure of how to decide between products (though obviously this is a concern) but rather that they don't know what those products are what they exist to do. I can debate the merits of a 9800GTX versus a Radeon 4870 X2 with someone qualified, but a casual buyer will probably ask, "what do I need a video card for and what does it mean for it to have more memory?" That's the difference in understand that I am trying to highlight. Most of use who are hardcore into PC gaming are very well aware of what we need to play games; but those who aren't, and aren't really familiar with the intricacies of computers to begin with, knowing what the right things to talk about are really daunting. Learning about computers and their components isn't that easy, because people are really, seriously blindingly ignorant. Lots of things that we'd take for granted are things that people have no idea about, like the difference between physical and virtual memory, or what the difference is between a single and dual processor, or what exactly memory does. All of this stuff is pretty complex, especially taking into account that people don't have any technical background at all. You'd have to start from the lowest possible level of complexity and teach people from the ground up. It's like learning elementary biology - sure, people could do it, but it's kinda hard, it takes time and effort, and most people don't really care. I have been making my living with selling PCs few years ago, and after 1st week at my work i rather stopped to count people which answered to the question "What will be the primary use of your PC?" with "All I want is something simple, i do not need anything powerful, it's just for games." And after i told them that gaming is one of the most demanding applications for PCs, and recommended them gaming rig for 500EUR instead of they dream rig for 300EUR with Celeron, intel IGP, 256MB RAM and 40GB HDD, they just looked at me with the "Another clown who wants to steal 200EUR from us" look... When you ask random PC owner what is the difference between ATI and Nvidia, they end up with same look as I end up everytime, when I go shopping with my girlfriend and she ask me "what you think is better for me, that Margaret Astor mascara or that Rimmel one over there?" I hope you now understand, that all that random buyers at BestBuy who want to play games, when they see Xbox 360 for 200USD, PS3 for 400USD and PC for 500USD go home with the Xbox 360 and dont give a damn about that PCs for 500USD can play all current PC games on maxed out settings...

um, no, not even close. clearly, based on this post, you do not understand what a standard is. because, if it is a standard, anybody can design to it... at that point, market forces will drive who is successful. taks Nah there are standards made/recommended by organisations like ISO or IEEE, and there are "standards" forced upon customers because there is no other similar product available on the market, like MS Windows for PC based gaming. If you dont understand what i am meaning blame my english explaining skills (not a native speaker)

Seriously dont think that will happen... the only reason why PS3 and japanese stuff is in red numbers is because value of Yen is to high... http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/01...nt-consoles.ars the most interesting excerpt from article:

Yes, looks to me same way...

apparently you don't understand the concept of a standard... it's not just "the consumer's wish," nor are what they talking about is a single provider. it took all of 30 seconds of reading to figure that out. lose your pre-conceived notions. standards abound in our lives. the cell phone calls you make are all done through a standard, mostly CDMA in the US, some form of GSM in europe, etc. standards make things easier for developers because they don't have to design for a billion sorts of hardware or meet a myriad of communication protocols. PCs have the PCI bus and its newer variants, SATA, firewire, and RS-232 interfaces, DVI for your monitor, etc. standards all. taks Apparently Microsoft Windows is a standard aswell... Forced Standard for PC gaming... what can stop a company which brings this stnadard to the public to force it for console gaming because it wants to make same ****loads of cash on it like MS is making on Windows...

just four words... Grand Theft Auto Four or another two... Assasin's Creed or another one... Crysis i could pull more words out of my ass aswell, but cba... Did I say play on max settings? No. And GTA4 is a poor example and you know it (and if you don't then frankly you are too uneducated to be involded with this topic). As even a top of the line box struggles with it. Poor coding <> a fair benchmark. Poor coding of ports is a plague of modern PC gaming, so it is a correct example here and you said...

lol no one is saying that

Luls i was just pointing 3 PC games which you cannot play at high setting at the day of the release with a PC for $600...

Define "near max levels" and I'll be able to tell you. i edited my last post but too late

Lolz. I can play both of those on my PoS laptop with decent settings. EDIT: As for GTA IV - it was simply a ****ty port. He said: Of course you can play assasin's creed and crysis on current hardware with decent setting, but were you able to play it in decent settings when they came out? And can you play them with everything on max or near max levels on your laptop? (That means with Antialiasing 16x16 turned on 1680x1050 with all DX10 stuff enabled) NO! (That was the point of my post, if you did not got it.) http://www.dailytech.com/Crysis+Demo+Hits+...article9428.htm http://www.dailytech.com/Binary+Heroes+PC+...article9500.htm

just four words... Grand Theft Auto Four or another two... Assasin's Creed or another one... Crysis i could pull more words out of my ass aswell, but cba...

Yes they are, but they cost at least 3x-10X the price of a console... If you would have wife, mortgage on house and two small children you would reconsider every single $ to release from your grasp The machine posted by Rhomal is not a high end PC, and same PC setup if not homemade, would cost you much much more... Only enthusiasists and people who has technical friends are building their own PCs... all others just buy Dell, HP, whatever vendorbuild machines with Intel IGP and are then confused why they new games are running slow... And enthusiasists do not buy PC for $600... I never ever purchased PC under 1500 EUR and every single PC i ever bought was made by myself... You got that right, I mean my current PC was built in 2006, but I must have put another $10,000 into it since then I Bought my current PC in 2006 aswell, so far the full value of every component I put into it is around 2500 EUR... In 2007 I bought my Wii and PS2, so far i put about 300EUR into Wii and 200EUR into PS2 (including initial purchase).

Yes they are, but they cost at least 3x-10X the price of a console... If you would have wife, mortgage on house and two small children you would reconsider every single $ to release from your grasp The machine posted by Rhomal is not a high end PC, and same PC setup if not homemade, would cost you much much more... Only enthusiasists and people who has technical friends are building their own PCs... all others just buy Dell, HP, whatever vendorbuild machines with Intel IGP and are then confused why they new games are running slow... And enthusiasists do not buy PC for $600... I never ever purchased PC under 1500 EUR and every single PC i ever bought was made by myself...

Not really. Did you happen to read that article by Valve's main guy where he explains that it's a myth? Gabe Newell explains why PC gaming is the future: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/valve-wh...-future-article Doug Lombardi further discredits "the PC is dead" claims: http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=873 Gabe Nevell have to say that PC-gaming ios not dead His income depends on PC-gaming Anyway i never said PC gaming is dead and tbh i don't think so. But i just think with all the DRM and limited activations lot of people (be it significant or unsignificant number i dont know) are turning to consoles. And besides his saying the Steam can combat piracy, is same myth as saying SecuROM can combat piracy, you just need to get one application and you can just play any Steam-only game if you want... You will be unable to update it (afaik that can be solved aswell but not 100% sure about it), but people who DL pirated games most of the time do not care about newest updates.

Moat of the time it's a direct result of making game for xbox 360 first and then porting to PS3... same we have with games proted from xbox 360 to PCs... they looks and plays worse aswell (unless you got very powerful PC) I would like to see an application made for PS3 1st and then ported to Xbox... Which we will see with release of Final Fantasy 13... I am realy curious how both versions will differ from each other...

ehm my fault... i thought it filled double layer BD, but looks like it it filled only single layer...

So do you feel then as though you are in agreement with the OP? That the console is going to fade away and we are going to return to a more generalized approach to home computing? Understand, I am not arguing with you directly, except to say that such reasoning flys in the face of everything we've been told about pc vs console game development. I understand what he said in opposite direction, you do not need PC anymore to do all the fancy thingies you were able to do few years ago, now you can make all of it on a gaming console aswell...

I don't see games hitting 50 gb anytime soon. I see one comming this year for example Final Fantasy 13, but it will not be the 1st game with around 50GB, the 1st was Heavenly Sword, released in 2007 (only the sound effects alone have over 10GB)!

Problem with multiple cores is that it needs parallel programming for full utilization, which is btw the biggest whine reason about programming for PS3, atm only about 0.5% of all programmers are able to design and code fully parallel piece of software... until this number grows much much higher, adding more and more cores to procesor will not make algorithms execute faster, because non-parallel programmed applications are capable of using only one core of your multi-core processor. As an example... 32-bit procesors came on the PC market around 1985. The first games which were coded only for 32-bit architecture were released around year 1990... It lasted even more until programmers fully switched to 32-bit. So it was 5 years while game programmers were able to use the technology at hand to full potential... 64-bit procesors are on the PC market from around 2000, until today we do not have a single game that is coded only for 64-bit operating systems. Now try to imagine to how long it will last until programmers switch into fully 64-bit architecture while using more than 1 core! I do not believe it will be in 2010 tbh, like Mr. Sweeney predicted

Pro-question 1... does everybody who have PC, have PC capable of playing current gen PC games? No... I have 3 working PCs at home only 1 is capable of playing current gen PC games. 75% of PCs sold today are not suitable for gaming... Most of the people buy desktops/notebooks for work school or internet browsing... Pro-question 2... does everybody who have Xbox 360/Playstation 3/Wii have Xbox 360/Playstation 3/Wii capable of playing current gen console games? Yes... 100% of consoles sold today are suitable for gaming. That is the difference, people spent much much less money on console gaming in a span of 5 - 10 years than on PC gaming. And i dont believe it will ever change... So the cost of the PC is very relevant to gaming... Most of the people who are buying Wii or Xbox 360 arcade (because of they low price), never played on PC anything beyond minesweeper

I dont see gaming going back to PC soon, Look how many people complain about high cost of PS3 everywhere, and it is still less than a PC cost... ever seen how GTA IV plays on $3000 PCs ??? one smaal hint, it plays terrible... and lot of longtime PC customers switch to consoles just because SecuROM, limited activations etc... Going 100% steam is out of question next few years aswell, because small download speed in most of the countries... PS3 games can have up to 50GB atm, with Pioneer already introducing 400GB BD medium which can be read with current BD players... http://digitimes.com/news/a20081201PD212.html Can you imagine downloading 50GB game with 2-10Mbit/s line or with a line which has 1-10GB limitation per month? When there start to going out games which fully use the capacity of PS3 and BD customers will demand say thing for PC... And besides, the capacity of cables which are laid around atm is not high enough to hold up to the growing demand of digital streaming content, if there will not be invested tens of billions of dollars worldwide, people predict collapse of internet... http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/81331 I dont think that this will happen anytime soon, but if the time of the global crisis like we have atm, i dont think that governments around the globe will prioritize funding internet backbones much over other more important things... yes yes another doom story :D

I already asked this of the opening poster, and didn't get a response. Are you going to do the same thing and not by a Bio game for fear of "funding this sick vision"? If so, do you also own any of the consoles? Because, I think were there to be a console unification, it might actually be the console manufacturers doing this, and not EA. Just a bit of a thought... Seems somewhat obvious to me. If console manufacturer wanted console unification we would already had one... If this comes to finale, it will be most likely work of publisher made consortium...

It's called greed... Drakensang guys are still not infected...

That isn't DRM. It kinda is... DRM Digital Rights Management... With this certificate, they gave you the right to use the game only for limited time... after it expires and someone says that it's to much trouble for him to renew the certificate of the game again, you end up with coaster...