Wormerine

Yeah, not very interesting stream. Mostly what we knew already + a lot of new blood in the chat asking basic questions.

1AM stream! Can't wait.

The problem with “optional graze” was that it really wasn’t an option. Beta ranges from very tricky to very easy and all that changes it is casting Dire Blessing. Lack of grazes and low penetration made spellcasting frustrating as you would spend lengthy time preparing the spell only to not see anything happen. I don’t feel grazing needs to be in game, but as of now, the system doesn’t work well without grazes.

I saw similar suggestions throughout the forums regarding intelligence and resolve swap, and I must say you make a really convincing argument in favour of that idea.

I would be sad if perma-death were removed, just as I was when KOTOR or Dragon Age didn’t have it. That said, in the game perma-death is not really a thing. It’s too easy to avoid a situation of being in danger of character dying and being a kind of game it is, loosing a irreplaceable party member feels too much like a hard fail state to not to reload. Certainly, there could be a more interesting system, which would punish players for failing without cutting out game content. I think this is really the difference between game with good&bad perma death. If loosing and replacing companions a game content or does loosing companion just cut out game content. In XCOM loosing teammates is fun, as replacing them and dealing with problems which loss of experienced soldier brings is the game. Playing XCOM without loosing people gets old very quickly. In cRPG interactions with NPC is kinda the game. If there is enough content tied to loosing a companion, getting someone killed and rolling with it might be worth a loss of the companion. Otherwise you just lock yourself out of part of the game.

Pong is more straightforward than PoE, but it's also a heckuva lot less interesting. I agree that straightforwardness needs to be considered, but function comes before form. If something being more complex better serves the RPG system, then I say do it. Again, though, this requires a sort of viability balancing of the opportunities you're offering to the characters. If you want ranged weaponry, for example, to be a viable option for any character of any class, and you also want melee weaponry or magic weaponry to be viable, then allow the stats to affect each of these three options in interesting ways. There's no reason to offer 3 options to people that are so distinct, then go "Meh, it's more straightforward to just say 'this attribute makes weapons do damage.' " That would be like coming up with classes, starting with the Fighter, then conceiving the Wizard and being like "Okay, all his spells are gonna be just Magic Kick and Magic Slash and Magic Leap." Oh, you've made a whole new class, but then just gone "Meh... they all do damage and cause effects. Who cares. Let's have an attribute called 'Classness' that just increases a bunch of numbers for whatever class you are." If you're gonna make stuff distinct, make stuff distinct. Sure, but in the end PoE is statistic based RPG. Number go up and down. Making the same stat interact with various items in different way makes things more complicated but not in an interesting way - its more difficult to calculate the outcome while the result is pretty much the same. Lets say we do what I proposed in previous post: For melee weapons "Strength" increases the damage done with weapons as you hit harder. With bows you don't do more damage, but you gain penetration bonus as your arrows come out with more impact. Crossbows and firearms get decreased recovery because you handle them better. Never used any of those weapons but I think it would be more faithful representation of how they work. But in the end all it is about is weapons doing more DPS with with increase in Strength. As the game is heavily abstracted anyway, does it really add anything worthwhile? System as it is now clearly shows how much damage you do with each weapon. WIth seperate system for each weapon comparing effectiveness is just becoming more difficult without adding nuance to the gameplay. So as much as I would like for them to be a bit less abstract, I don't think it would be a good idea to change that.

Same can be said about structuring story, editing, framing, choosing right equipment etc. All of the art forms have a very practical and technical foundation. Still, glad to see grazed back in. Dire Blessing was a must cast.

Dont forget about cheese.

You have a point there. This is getting ridiculous. You start listening to every single would-be-game-developers and the resulting mess is unplayable. User feedback is important sure but every single critisism comes from personal preference and you simply can't make everyone happy. Maybe somebody needs to cut off Josh's internet connection for the rest of the development. Which reminds me of an interesting conclusion of a review for "Shape of Water" I read recently: "A good artist doesn't necessarily set out to please the audience. A good artist sets out to please himself. Sometimes the two things merge, and in the best of del Toro's films, they do." So Josh, what do YOU like?

Someone perceptive might not have fast reactions. You might perceptively notice a blow coming and appreciate technique but it probably won’t stop you from being smacked. Resolve is still desirable for melee characters (just like strength could be for casters in certain builds). Resolve will influence non weapon based abilities so it goes beyond cypher/Druid/priest/mage. All classes will have to choose between melee damage (strength), ability damage (resolve) and ability duration (intelligence), accuracy (perception) and speed (dexterity). On paper it looks good but whenever this new division will play well with existing class design and balance remains to be seen. Oh and constitution. Constitution is kinda lame.

Exactly. And what I don’t like about “might” attribute is that even though those two things are separate there is no way to separate them - therefore shorthand “you can’t strong spells cause you’re buffed”. Might be a side effect rather than cause, but something that bugged me nonetheless. Now “strength” is measured by Strength and “spiritual strength” is measured by Resolve. While possible muddying up what was an elegant system gameplay wise, it does seem a little bit more defined to me.

I suppose we could assume that with greater strength you wield guns better and use the more effectively. I would prefer for it to show in shorter recovery, rather than increased damage (same with crossbow), but I suppose that calculating damage for every weapon same way is just more straightforward.

Oh, for **** sake. MIGHT MEASURED THE POWER OF YOUR SOUL GOD DAMMIT It’s nice to know that you found explanation which works for you, but: “Might represents a character's physical and spiritual strength, brute force as well as their ability to channel powerful magic. During interactions, it can be useful for intimidating displays and acts of brute force. In combat, it contributes to both Damage and Healing as well as the Fortitude defense.” At no point in the game was it used to represent the “POWER OF YOUR SOUL.”

...A wand is a weapon so it uses Strength...I'm sorry, I should do what with a magical implement? Swing it hard and bash enemies heads with it? Or maybe poke someone's eyes with it? Or should I channel my magic powers into the wand so that it could amplify them into a magic missile? Shouldn't that use Resolve or Intelligence? Please for the love of immersion do not fix strength and then simply leave wands as a strength based weapon.This should stem for their magic power. "I am going to kill you Harry Potter! I am pointing my want as HARD as I CAN!" What does it have to do with immersion? I have a bigger issue with guns as we know guns don't get more effective with strengh. Wands a magical. Therefore, they attack with arcane energy. They might be crafter by mages. No one said they draw energy from users magical prowess. Or do you just want to have maxed out weapon and spell damage at the same time without investing extra attribute points as you did in PoE, hmm?

Wouldn't that be constitution though? No. Think Dragon Ball Z. Can't think of something I don't know.

So magic damage coming from Intelligence or physical strength makes sense but from resolve not? Come on. I understand the "high-deflection-for-mages-for-free" worry and people who dislike having to make a choice instead between desirable stats, but this is just highly subjective fluff preference. Strenght of spiritual damage could come out of strong willpower. Surprisingly, it seems like I was one of the few, who thought that putting physical and magic damage into the same stat was the biggest weakness of original system.

... If you solo, than injury perma-death is completely irrelevant as if you are knocked down you loose game anyway. I wouldn’t say that perma death adds any challange. You are not in danger of dying, you are in danger of resting a lot.

It’s is not done yet. PnP PoE is designed by Josh and is currently on hold due to workload with Deadfire.

Agreed, it (mostly) isn't... which I think is a mistake and irredeemably damages one of the most important aspects of the RPG experience. I understand the whole gaming world has gone ADHD, so there's little choice now if they want a commercially viable game. However, I hope for a new-game option, akin to the permadeath checkbox in POE1, to restore some resource based gameplay. (I don't think food bonuses suffice for this). I see. I really don't think "those-twitchy-kids-these-days" to be a reason for these changes. I would rather expect older fans of originals to not have patience to get potentially stuck in story driven game. I am a big fan of strategy games, resource management, meaningful (often deadly) decision making and all that jazz. Those are selling points to me. But in the end, every game has to decide what it wants to be and where its (and players) main focus should be directed to. I will use the same argument I use whenever this subject of "meaningful" choices and resource management comes up: None of the Infinity Engine games or RPGs that followed really had any resource management in them. In all those D&D games you could rest wherever you wanted. It's not by a mistake. Those are primarly story driven games and getting stuck in a dungeon, having to reload old save, permanently loosing a handcrafted companion, or not being able to complete a quest goes againt what those games are valuing the most. In some more mechanicly driven RPGs those tough decisions and possible real looses are welcome. In IE style RPGs they really don't belong. Even if they are somewhat present (perma death of characters in IE game or PoE, or per-rest abilty use, and limited camping) those are more of a flavour than meaty mechanical restrictions.

Oh you mean like basic weapons would break randomly? I LOVED it. One of the main things i missed in BG2. <No sarcasm>

Items can get destroyed right? Spears can be broken, armors misshaped beyond repair etc. etc. I wouldn't want to see completely random loot being dropped, and I would like to see loot being dropped (in case I AM looking for a generic spear) but making those not drop 100% of a time should be a good change.

But you get the actual game when it is released as well for that $55 expenditure. Its not like you are paying $55 for beta and then have to buy the game later. No, but if you are looking for a pure, selfish entertainment there are better ways to spend $20. Not that one shouldn’t buy into Deadfire beta. Just wanting to make sure, one knows what is going into.

You prolly played PoE right after it came out and not after Patch 2.0 which added AI scripts for companions, right? Yes, is there AI scripts for companions in POE I?0:20https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I0GvsA6exuY

But... why? The system clearly isn’t build for that. There is no resource management. Spells and abilities are per encounter. The only reason to rest are injuries (which you get on screwup, be it falling in battle or running into traps) and restore empower points. Resource management beyond combat level just isn’t really a thing in Deadfire.

I believe Josh mentioned those items are to be dropped as semi random drop (so dead xuaurip has a chance to drop a spear, or shield). Whenever it is still the thing, we don’t know, but stacking thing is in. So instead of 20 spears you will have a stack of 20 spears.