Boeroer

I agree that the rationalization is better in Deadfire. I was also thinking about your suggestion that taking an active ability should raise your resource pool. So maybe that's not the worst idea of all times.

While we are at "PoE vs. Deadfire" when it comes to mechanics: which approach did you like better for the per-encounter abilites? PoE: picking an ability like Crippling Strike and Blinding Strike and then get x uses per encounter? Deadfire: picking an ability that feeds from your non-replenishable resource pool (like Guile)? I am undecided. While I like the flexibility that a resource pool gives you it also makes it so that abilities compete for said resource and that it's generally a bad idea to pick too many active abilities. In PoE picking an ability always meant that you increased the uses. Maybe there yould have even been a hybrid system that would have given you the flexibility of a resource pool but wouldn't punish you for taking too many active abilites that feed from that pool?

Which is not so bad I think - having to make those decisions. Real world example: you wouldn't want some wounded boxer to get back up if an additional blow would endanger him or maybe even kill him. You'll tell him to stay down or throw the towel. At first this kind of mechanical quirk sounds ugh. But I don't think it is that bad. It is indeed very frustrating if your guy gets revived unintentionally (like from Second Chance) though. Happened to me sometimes. Luckily you can always reload so it's nothing that got me ranting...

But only the "explosive" upgrade of Seven Nights, right? Will it give you 7 inspirations?

I think it's pretty save to say that resting when having low health was the behaviour that the designer expected. I think thelee at al. mean the situation where health drops from max (or high) to zero over the course of one single fight (bounties, boss fights etc.). This can happen if you rely on strong "healing" (restoration of endurance) but use chars with low CON and/or low defenses and DR. So basically glasscannons. CON's influence on endurance isn't that big, but its impact on health is quite significant. If you tend to use low CON glasscannons and like to prevent knockouts with lots of healing (instead of good defenses and/or DR) you will run into that problem quite often. Solo runs naturally have longer fights - so during a solo run you will also experience this a lot more which might blur your judgement on this mechanic. For most players that use a party and don't min-max a lot I suppose it was a non-issue.

It wasn't particularly well implemented - especially the edge case when health nears max endurance (and then got lower) like you mentioned are a bit weird - but I still like it better than the Deadfire solution for the reasons mentioned. Some of the confusion you mention stems from unclear nomencalture though and not from complicated mechanics: endurance/health is clear, but what was called "healing" in PoE was actually just some sort of "catching your breath" in most cases. "Healing" should have been reserved for abilites that actually restored health, not endurance. I'd still argue that all the confusion wasn't the result of a bad or complicated mechanic but of poor explanation and wording. I also wouldn't say that it's unintuitive. I understood the concept at once even though I didn't experience it before. Those unelegant "edges" where you would rather get your companion knocked out than go to 0 health could have been shaved off by some additional options like I said (like feigh death). Other options are already there: namely the maiming option as well as the abilites Wound Binding and Field Triage as well as potions of Infuse with Vital Essence. I know those situations you talk about, but after utilizing the options above (even only two: maiming + potion) they were a non-issue. Not the best solutiuon for the underlying problem maybe but not as bad as you describe it either On one hand you have a system that carries over the results of one battle to the next (via health depletion) - on the other hand a system that does not do that and where every battle is an insolated event. Both have their problems. I can't really see why one would argue that one of those approaches is objectively better. There is no better or worse when it comes to the underlying concepts - execution details aside. There is no reason to call one approach stupid or ridiculous nor to impute players who like a over b with stockholm syndrome (because they are obviously not clear in their head when they don't prefer b).

It's not the best turn based system you'll ever see - but it works well enough.

Generally you are right: PoE does a very poor job of explaining things. But your examples are mostly ill-suited to prove your point: the combat log goes back to the start of the battle at least - you just have to expand the window and scroll. A weapon is ineffective if its damage gets eaten up by the enemy's damage reduction (DR). This can be seen in the combat log where you can inspect the dmg roll + dmg modifiers, damage type, the enemy's DR against that type of damage, your DR bypass and then the resulting dmg (+ eventual lash damage). A "MIN" tells you that the dmg you did was actually so low compared to the DR that it would have been near zero or lower and that the game granted you a minimal dmg value instead. Sawyer not simply decided about a bunch of stats because "Hey why not smart Barbs lol?". He chose to make the attribute system more systemic instead of simulationistic (is that even a word?). Systemic approaches lead to an easier implementation, easier balancing and less trap choices - and they are also easier to predict for players: INT always impacts AoE and duration (no matter if Carnage AoE or spell AoE) - MIG always impacts damage done and healing done. That's not unintuitive. You are just used to a different take on attributes. It's not your intutition that tells you what a certain stat should do - it's your expectation based on experience. You might like that or not, but it's nothing that an experienced designer decided because he had a stiff gin tonic for breakfast.

Pallegina went through something what we would call .

I think a Witch (Berserker/Beguiler) would work best with a Morning Star (first Saru Sichr, then The Willbreaker). But I consider the Morning Star to be the most useful weapon choice most of times, and maybe others might object. But the synergy of Spirit Frenzy + Secret Horrors + modal + Brute Force is just too good in my opinion. If you have a party member who already uses a Morning Star then you can use something else of course. For example Endre's Flig of Obedience or that soulbound mace which is very strong with Blood Thirst (against kith) and also very good with stun on crits (see Berserker crit conversion). Instead of Berserker one could also use Furyshaper. The terrifying totem is very strong. You'll lose PEN and melee crit chance - but on the other hand gain a very potent summon. If you like Disintegrate and Silent Scream (both not caring much about AR since raw dmg) I would consider this. If you like hitting stuff with a weapon more then Berserker I guess.

Riveted by that ⛓️ of reasoning.

As far as I'm concerned it seems to be most interesting for Chanters + Invocations (because of Sasha's Singing Scimitar) anyway? Other empowered actions that might trigger multiple times: melee ability with Sun & Moon, Whispers of the Endless Paths, Keeper of the Flame or Wahai Pōraga, Whispers of the Wind (Monk), Heart of Fury (Barb), Clear Out (Fighter), empowered ranged ability with blunderbuss or hand mortars or rods, ranged ability with Driving Flight, empowred ranged ability as spiritshifted Fury, Whirling Strikes. Maybe even pulsing spells like Consecrated Ground or Chillfog or beams like Ectopsychic Echo?

Well I mean it's thelee after all.

Eh - you are better than this.

I can give you his phone number...?

Ah, you mean the upgrade where every one of the three lighting triggers an additional lightning burst on hit? This also counts as single empowerment for the coil? Sweet! 😄 I alsways though that invocation was so bad compared to some others - but with Empowerment-effects in general and the coil it may be quite awesome. Too bad it comes so superlate. The coil I mean. The sabre you can get pretty early. Maybe there are some other effects besides the coil's which could profit from the ivocation's multiple triggering...?

If I remember correctly you asked why players don't ask for such mechanics if they were so popular. On the other hand you stated on multiple occasions (and correct me if I'm wrong) that fans don't know what they want anyways and that developers shouldn't listen too much to the suggestions of fans. So basically you were saying that fans don't know what they want and what's good - but if resource management would be such a good feature why don't fans demand such features more often? Duplicity of that aside: looking at the sales numbers seems like a reasonable and logical way to determine how much certain games were received and liked. My example of the Darkest Dungeon (which is an RPG and which heavily emphasizes on resource management, per-rest mechanics and survival aspects so I think it's a good example) shows that a lot of players actually want this stuff. They show it not by crying for such a game beforehand (since they don't know what they really like until they get it, right?) but by buying the game about one million times. Now where exactly is my argument that sales numbers show what players like, that an RPG with heavy emphasis on resource management sold tremendously well - which shows that such mechanics are well-liked if implemented well - ridiculous? What I said was never about D&D or if some grognards only want per-rest mechanics because of nostalgia. I personally don't care about D&D and also not about IE games and what they did and why. I think D&D rules in general are awful and so much worse than what Deadfire does. Still I'm trying to explain why I think that certain limitations of resources over the course of a whole dungeon or area (instead of refreshing everything after each encounter) can make an RPG better IF the players like resource management and survival elements. At the same time I never said that per-rest is the "alpha and omega of resource management". It can be a part of it, but D&D and also PoE show that's it's not so easy: simply adding camping supplies and reducing their number on higher difficulties doesn't work well. You have to add more in order to make per-rest mechanics enjoyable. So I'm fine with Deadfire's per-encounter approach when it comes to abilites. As we determined it's easier to balance and it's easier to plan encounters then. It's easier to get it right compared to a resource management/survivalish approach - which might turn out bad if you don't get everything right. I already said that in another post above. What I actually emphasized on was PoE's endurance/health system compared to Deadfire's. PoE's health mechanics where easy enough (seriously who thinks they are complicated as soon as sombody told you what's it about?) but still allowed encounters to have an impact on each other. Was it perfect: nah, far from it. Was it better than Deadfire's instant wolverine-ish regeneration with also added access to unlimited healing? I think PoE is better in that regard because of the reasons I stated above. Others might like the Deadfire approach better. They might love that a Herald can just heal the whole party endlessly as long as nobody gets one-shotted. I find that boring but that's only me. It's a matter of taste really - same as Powergaming vs. "proper" Roleplaying - but I hope I can make some people understand why other people (including me) might like PoE's approach better - at least the health part. Nothing ridiculous or stupid about that as far as I can tell.

I guess what you mean is: "Her Revenge Swept" triggers three times (three separate lighting attacks - this is the important part) Empowering this invocation (which triggers three times) while wearing the Least Unstable Coil will not give you one inspiration (see its enchantment Empowered Being) but three inspirations with Sasha's Singing Scimitar you can turn Empower from x/rest into 1/encounter, giving you these three inspirations in every encounter (once). the Weyc's Robes and Wand will also trigger thrice on Empowering this invocation (although most of the effects won't stack with themselves I guess?) Nice find!

What nerf of the Soulblade are you referring to? Keep in mind that Soulblades not only get Soul Annihilation and -5 shred costs, but also gain +1 Concentration and +10 max focus per (melee) kill which can synergize very well with the Barb's on-kill effects (Bloodlust, Bloodthirst etc.). I like this combo best with Whispers of the Endless Paths. It applies raw damage to all in the cone (dmg numbers vary though, first target gets hit hardest most of times) which helps to do kills on multiple enemies quicker. If you build your Witch with highest Resolve, grab Psychovampiric Shield and Borrowed Insticts and put on deflection gear you can also pick Offensive Parry. It's not as reliable as with a full-on-deflection character, but enemies will still miss every now and then (especially when blinded etc.) or when you disengage. And if that happens you are basically generating focus from the parry on the fly, allowing you to utilize Soul Annihilation or casting another power more often. Ascendant+Barbarian is a very strong combo because at first you can cast faster during Ascension (due to Frenzy and potentially Bloodlust) and then later of course the combo of Blood Thirst + damaging spells is ridiculously good. Especially with spells that have short casting time but longish recovery (which then falls down to 0). See Mind Lance. But also the longer casts still profit from Frenzy+Bloodlust. Amplified Wave is a very good power here since it not only damages but also keeps the enemies down once you can spam it. Beguiler is often an overlooked option when contemplating about melee witches. But Beguiler is always strong. Imagine a Berserker/Beguiler Witch themes around fear and torror with the Willbreaker (+Body Blows), Secret Horrors (Frighten/Sicken), Spirit Frenzy (Stagger) and Brute Force. It is a beautiful package theme-wise but also in terms of synergy and power. You gain a lot of focus from casting big AoE deceptions - and I mean a LOT. Even the most impactful deceptions such as Ring Leader don't cost you much if anything at all as long as you hit enough enemies. Cast right from stealth the Beguiler-rule applies and you get back a lot of focus, often more than spend. Powers like Phantom Foes and Secret Horros are especially great for opening a fight and filling up your focus. You can then utilize those focus points for a buff or even to cast disintegrate (wil trigger Bloodlust and Blood Thirst when it kills). Body Blows + Stagger + Sicken will lower enemies fortitude by 45 points(!) making it easy to land all fortitude-based powers such as Disintegrate. But with Brute Force you can also target that -45 fortitude as if it were deflection. Still not low enough? Well Phantom Foes can bring down enemies deflection as well. Allthewhile the frightening will unlokc the special enchantments of the Willbreaker. Wear the Whitewitch Mask because nothing fits the theme better. Spread Carage and fear, you howling maniac! 😄 Also it's easy to do the following with this setup: cast Whisper of Treason on an enemy (get back 5 focus) and then Disintegrate (it's possible to cast in on charmed enemies - if you cast Secret Horros first you'll have more focus and lowered his will and fortitude). Then off to the next. Disintegrate will not turn the enemy back but instead he will keep fightng for you. When he dies from the DoT he will trigger Blood Thirst. Meanwhile swing away and weave in some Secret Horrors, Phantom Foes and the likes. Also Mental Binding is very good to stack the crit chance with the Berserker's crit chances. It also gives you back good focus if you hit enough enemies. Those are all viable combos. I guess you just need to decide how you want to play that guy. Melee-heavy with the occasional buff: Soulblade. Focused o casting: Ascendant. Hybrid (with rad theme) : Beguiler. I guess you can tell which my favorite is.

I also found Tyranny's use of health/wounds very annoying. Together with those abysmal cooldown mechanics (I mean the idea of cooldowns in general, not that this implementation was particularly bad) and the rather unbalanced ability trees it destroyed my desire to replay the game. I tried but cancelled. The argument that if resource management mechanics were so popular gamers would ask for them: well they are. Rogielites and roguelikes and also games with survival aspects who nearly all work with restricted resources from "resting point" to resting point (in many different ways) sell better than most party based CRPGs. Darkest Dungeon sold very well for example. Over one million copies I read the other day. That's a lot more than Deadfire.... One of the rare mixes of RPG with strong emphasis on survival and resource management. So if such an approach is ridiculous or stupid: why does it sell so well? The way I see it: If you use more per-encounter mechanics you drift a bit towards action RPG, if you incorporate more resource management it feels a bit more like a survival RPG. Whether you like the one or the other is just a matter of taste and how well the whole game incorporates certain mechanics. No need to call one side or the other ridiculous or stupid or whatever one would call tastes that don't align with one's own. I have problems with Deadfire's health mechanic and favor PoE's because healing becomes too powerful. As we can see with the omnipresent Herald who has unlimited healing over time capabilities: you're essentially giving the whole party infinite health as long as you can make the fight slow. Infinity is never a good thing with game mechanics. Also see Gouging Strike, Brand Enemy, True Love's Kiss and such. It's so easy to abuse it and render most other approaches inferior. The argument with the PoE-character who should get knocked out and stay knocked out rather than die: there were potions and talents that would have prevented this. You could also have rested earlier. If you chose not to use those options that's a decision you took but not the basic fault of the mechanics. You deemed Wound Binding etc. worthless and so didn't take them. But then you get frustrated in situations where they would have helped you. I don't know if that's such a good argument against PoE's endurance/health mechanics. It's a reason why you didn't like it but not a point that proves that those mechanics were bad. One simply option to fix this situation would have been to introduce a "feign death" option that everybody gets 1/encounter. Small change that would have solved your problem while not changing the underlying mechanic (which I think is superior to Deadfire's). Was it "confusing"? Maybe. But it would have not been if it would have been explained better in a tutorial. Because if you can't understand the mechanic itself you shouldn't be able to understand most of the PoE mechanics and especially Deadfire mechanics (hello PEN/AR with double inversion and stuff) anyways. So this is also not a good argument against it.

Stalwart is a good example: it has quests, but not in x districts and not a ton of them. It can be a hub, with shops, tavern, healer and so on, nothing against that. But I share the same feeling as wih above: you enter Neketaka and suddenly feel demotivated, even disoriented. It would be nicer if quest lines would slowly unfold and bring you to places of the city. Instead, you can go everywhere you please and grap quests. dozens of them - no need to finish anythng before picking up the next. I'm no a big fan of that.

I don't care about D&D and what it inspired. I simply like it more to plan over the course of several encounters instead to view every one as an isolated event. Basically you can say that i'd like to see a reasonably sized dungeon (or other areas) as one big encounter or challenge - and not every fight as a singular one. It doesn't necessarily mean that there have to be per-rest abilites. It can also mean something else like PoE-health. I played a lot of The Dark Eye P&P when I was young and health as well as "mana" or other resource pools only replenished a bit during sleep. I mean if you drained yourself or got severely wounded it would have taken weeks (in game time) to be back to 100%. In case of priests you couldn't even go to sleep but had to properly meditate or visit a church or speak with a brother. Stuff like that. So you couldn't just enter a dungeon like a buch of drunk spring breakers and try to roflstomp its residents. I always liked that.

The Devil has to be killed by the villagers. Afaik this always happens if you spare Harmke. So any option that lets him live should lead to the breastplate appearing in Deadfire. Or you just pick the "Benevolent Soul" background in Deadfire.

It is true that it's a lot easier to plan and design encounters, balance classes etc. if the party always starts fights with the same resources (consumables and trinkets etc. aside). But in my opinion that's the only real benefit. I like a more tactical approach better, especially when it comes to "dungeon crawling". I like to manage my resources and finding a way how to spend them best over the course of a certain passage. Only using resources if I must. The risk of frustration is higher but so is the feeling of accomplishment, especially if the challenge was hard and it's your clever use of resources that let you win. As I said earlier: you'd have to design the whole game around non-replenishable resources then. If you simply offer resting supplies which you can buy anywhere then the main reason why I like per-rest resources is taken away - since per-rest turns into per-encounter - if you rest after every encounter. This doesn't only mean spells and other abilites but also the loss of health. Maybe especially health. The whole implementation would be a lot more challenging for sure. But I wouldn't call the desire for a rewarding resource management (be it per-rest or however you want to do it) stupid or ridiculous. Because it's more challenging I said I would design smaller areas between rests. If it would be stupid to like those things then all the successful tactical roguelite or roguelike games which are all about resource management and investing your resources wisely (often health) would only get developed and played by stupid or ridiculous people and I don't think that's the case. But maybe a big CRPG such as Deadfire isn't the best game to try this in the first place. If you want to focus on telling a story, roleplaying, immersion, factions, companions, exploration and so on and not really on combat (as long as it's enjoyable and good enough) then maybe the better approach indeed is to make it all per-encounter and have and easier time to balance and design that.