Boeroer

Huh - good question. No idea. Maybe comparing that in the actual game would give a better idea what works well or feels good?

Sure. Any (p)references?

Haha. It's totally harmless. Just a shower for your buttocks that goes besides your toilet - if you have no bidet for example.

I agree. I think a potion (let me call it Brilliant in a bottle, heh) is pretty neat so far. Easy to do, one has rel. good control over the WHEN and WHERE it can be achieved so it would not touch the earlier parts of the game, enough drawback if it is difficult and/or expensive enough to buy or craft. Also easy to separate from other mods because no progression tables an what have you. But hey, would it appear when you use the belt that spawns potions? Better not... I will set up a new OS now and since I have some special hardware I might be offline for the rest of the day, at least with my desktop machine. Cheers!

@Bosmerexcatly my thoughts/intentions. @Raven Darkholme, too. Yes, that would be bad. That is what I am trying to prevent though. Keep in mind that my examples are just that. I would want a form of regeneration that has almost no impact in the early game and also not in short fights. I think the Fighter example is a rel. good one since conversions do not happen that much in the early game because you do not have that many sources of conversion yet and in short fights they do not happen a lot anyways. Of course the numbers might need serious changes and also it might be that the potential to exploit this is big, but that is where constructive citicism would be helpful. But it is not only the solo runs where some of those fixed/resource classes suffer but also the late game DLCs where fights can be so long that your Ranger, Fighter etc. end up autoattacking only. Megabosses, too. It is not fun / and my goal would be to make the game more fun without throwing off the balance. If that is possible. So that is why I participate in the discussion. To find out what works, what not and to give input. Not to win an argument. In this special case I do not think so. You would need to find a sweet spot where resource generation does not happen much in the usual encounters but helps to keep things interesting in long encounters. It does no matter why the encounter is taking so long, be it because it is solo or because the enemies are to many and so tough. So the bottom line would be little resource generation in long fights, almost none in normal fights. That might be. I hoped the mechanic would be such that it is just not worth it to trying to exploit it. It should feel like nice to have. Maybe that is not possible, I do not know. Sure.

@Powerotti: Don't really understand what you are trying to say - I mean other than that this debate is unnecessary because the resource generation could be put into a separate file or even mod. That's true, but that's not really what I was up to. I don't insist on putting this into anything. I merely wanted to answer to MaxQuest|s initial idea(s) and throw out additional ideas and discuss whether they are good, bad or whatever. Let me sum up what happened: I made a separate thread asking about a sort of anti-confusion and if it might be a good effect for brilliant. I did so because I didn't want to convolute the dedicated CP or @Elric Galad's Polishing Mod threads but only wanted so ask for ideas and opinions on this. After that Eric asked what our general problems with Brilliant are and then we discussed that. Then @MaxQuestsaid that if all classes could regenerate some resources then maybe Brilliant might lose a bit of appeal and maybe then it wouldn't need that much nerfing anymore (at least that's my interpretation, feel free to correct me). So I agreed (because I had discussed this earlier in another thread already) and I - among others - put out some ideas about the how. I wasn't the initiator of this side topic nor did I say something like "this has to be pit into CP" or anything like that - I was only throwing out ideas like anybody else. For that, I got bawled out by @Phenomenum in my own thread - that I opened to keep the threads discussions about Community Patch/Balance Polishing Mod clean. So... why? I wasn't even the one who started this. If there's problems with my ideas then fine, show them to me. But apparently I hurt some feelings when I jumped on MaxQuest's train. It's obvious that Phenomenon doesn't like the idea, that's fine. But since I didn't/won't pressure him to use it - what's the fuzz? I can't see why one would get so confrontative about some stuff that I or others brainstorm in a mostly well-mannered way in my own thread. Anyway: I appreciate mentioning the potential problems with drug/trinket use. That's helpful and constructive.

I didn't make that point at all. I merely said that I think my suggestion of intruducing a rel. low chance of regaining a bit of resources right from the start as an effect that is attached to an auto-ability provided a) unchanged balance in the normal game where you play a full party and do rel. short fights and b) that in long fights and/or solo runs and/or late content like the DLCs SSS and FS those classes would have less of a disadvantange - ergo better balance and also c) that they won't cost an ability point and don't even need a separate talent - so nobody needs to feel forced to pick it, no new ability icon is needed and ability points don't get stretched thin. But that was actually before a) so c) might not be the best designation for it but whatever. Now that's the third time I repeated at least a) and b) and hopefully you will address those claims - maybe try to point out mechanical issues that I didn't see - like others did when I suggested something but didn't think it through (which isn't a problem since this is more like a brainstorming/discussion). Don't choose rudeness or try to put words in my mouth. I don't and it would be cool if you'd return the favor. I really don't know where this is coming from or what I wrote that I deserve such a behavior. This is leading nowhere with such a confrontative mood. If you are actually interested in convincing me - or anybody else in this thread - that my suggestions are bad:

Good point. Arcane Dampener/Cleanse etc. as well. Hm... So maybe potion would be the better pick. And not Brilliant but something that couldn't be cleared with an affliction? Also good point(s). Was that irony or is it indeed not feasible?

Maybe I WILL do a SC Mage Slayer Ultimate run after all.

I just thought about this more and - wouldn't it be the easiest solution if that consumable (drug or potion maybe) would just make you... Brilliant? I think I would settle on late-game drug? Because then it would also have a crash which would be neat, wouldn't it?

I did - but I can't find any arguments that would counter my aforementioned points a) and b) after the ones I already addressed in length and why I think they were wrong. "Might as well add resource points" - no, because that would impact the balance in the early game the most while it wouldn't do that much for the fights you actually need more resources. "only few fights" - that is different if you play solo and/or go to SSS/FS DLCs and/or do Moegabosses. And even if it would only be a few fights that would only be an argument in the line of "too much work for the outcome" - which I would accept. That's a valid argument (that you didn't explicitly made though) - but not one that counters the in-game mechanical benefits. After that it was just attacking me... ...like so. You even edited that sentence in afterwards. Like it was a great idea to add that but you just forgot about it the first time... I'm sorry if this discussion and the things I suggest (in the thread I opened myself just to ask what people where thinking about an anti-confusion mechanic) rile you up and you feel the need to be rude with me for reasons unknown, but...

Also - like the trinkets - a solution that sounds quite reasonable. Like the trinkets that solution would have the added advantage that you can kind of determine when it pops up in the game; I mean how early/late.

Then please repeat them because I may have missed them. That is not an argument and this is a discussion, not a petition.

I'm pretty sure I never posted anything about PoE1 and missing resource replenishment. Especially I didn't "whine" about it. I would very much like you to stop saying that. I don't use personal attacks in discussions which I start in good faith and I wish you wouldn't either. I does nothing for your point of view, it brings no sympathy or understanding for your cause. It just damages your reputation. What for? If you have solid arguments then I'm all ears. I'm the last person who wouldn't give in if you made some good points. You know that. The last argument you brought up against my suggestions was that you could as well give everybody flat +resources. I explained why that's not the same and why I think that would be bad form a blance standpoint imo (of course it would be most easy). That was the last sincere attempt to discuss this. Please let's return to that state.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/i-tried-the-indian-butt-hose-for-the-first-time-and-it-is-de

Ah right. Outright forgot about those.

Is this rethorical question? It is not a solo game. But if you can introduce a change that doesn't make the game worse for the normal player but improves it for the ones who play late game content, megabosses and/or solo why would you oppose that? I mean if you think it's not worth the effort because not enough players would be affected then ok. But then say so. Because I can see no argument from a mechanical perspective that speaks against it. But if there are such arguments then I'd like to hear them - and not that I stopped thinking, ignore stuff or am whining. Because those attack just me but not the points I was making.

Of course it's wrong. And I explained in length why those two solutions don't have the same outcome. I have no personal problem with those classes. I mostly play with a party and skip Megabosses. I'm speaking from a general game balance perspective. And it's undeniable that those classes have a disadvantage in a) solo runs or "less than 5 pary members runs" and b) late game content (SSS, FS, Megabosses) because some of them can't get resources back an they end up auto-attacking for a long time which makes those fights boring and frustrating. So I'm suggesting a solution that a) won't change the balance of the normal content but b) improves balance in those long/late fights. Originally this came up (@MaxQuest) so weaken the appeal of Brilliant. Because if all classes can at least get some resources back occasinally Brilliant might lose a bit of its attractiveness (was the idea). I can't see why that's a bad thing or why you would have to get pissy about it - but I guess that's your personal problem then? You can surely disagree but please let proper arguments speak for your case, not attacks.

And as soon as you play solo it's 500-700. Maybe I wasn't the one who stopped thinking and started ignoring?

I know that's not the point you're trying to make but I'll just interfere here for other readers here: With a Paladin you can indeed cheese to infinite Zeal easily as long as you have a Chanter or Monk with you (inifinite resources + summons who can get killed). But did you every try to build around Toughened Fury? It's not that great tbh except when you're solo maybe. So an additional/occasional source of Discipline wouldn't hurt imo. Paladin already has two sources (on kill and on ally KO) - that's why I suggested a rel. lame "get Zeal when getting knocked out" ability.

If there would be specific trinkets for each of those classes: sure, why not? They could even com with a drawback so you would only use them when you really needed to. For example "-2 Discipline - but gain a chance to regain 1 Discipline every time X happens". THe outcome would be the same but you wouldn't need to touch classes at all. I like it.

That is wrong. Because if you just give +x resources those classes they will also benefit in all other fights, not only the long ones. That indeed will influence balance considerably right from he start of the game. Especially in the early game. It's impact would be highest in the early game and lowest in the late game where you'd actually need resource replenishment more often. So that's a mechanically bad fix imo. But if you give them weak/occasional resource replenishment which only matters in very long fights you won't affect the balance in most of the games' encounters but only make those classes more viable for those long encounters (compared to those who already are better in prolinged fights). You'd also make them more viable for solo and some challenges.

How do you damage yourself with Essence Interrupter? Shooting at a Sigil is maybe the easiest way?

And the Rogue kicks a party member in the butt and calls it "Striking Idea"? Paladin's giving out some "Backslaps" and Barb is doing "Whooping Screams". Let's not forget the Ranger who's putting a party member "Back on Track". Fighters just get a boring "Allies Assemble!" though...

Hmmm... but what is a Scion? Xoti can be build rel. sturdy. High AR and other forms of damage reduction are key and even more important than defenses (butthose but those are important, too). But she's not great as the only tank until you get to the more impactful spells, so tanking in the early-mid game will be meh. Also because until Champion's Boon she will have only few engagement slots. Not a big problem if you have some other sturdy frontliner who can help until you reach the right levels. But overall, as the only tank who's supposed to hold several enemies: not that great imo.