Jediphile

Good points. I guess the Exile is going to Telos because once he was on the Harbinger, it really wasn't his choice anymore. It's the part about why he was going back to the Republic at all that bugs me... Good points about Kreia. It may be that since Revan came to see her before going to the unknown regions, she found out about Bastila's secret orders to T3 (which appears both in DS and LS with slight differences), or maybe even Revan found out about it and told Kreia. When the information about the Exile was then leaked, making the Sith and the Exchange aware of his existence, Kreia might have come seeking for him to prevent him from being captured by either side. Maybe Revan even asked her to, and it's even possible that she planned her whole vengeance against the Force at that point - it seems Revan was far more aware of the Exile's condition and significance to the Force than the Exile was. If Kreia knew of Bastila's message, she might also have looked for the Ebon Hawk, knowing full well that T3 would be looking for the Exile. I wonder when HK-47 was damaged, though... He seems to have lost all memory of the events of K1, except for his - ahem - dismissive comments about certain crewmembers of the Ebon Hawk... " :D

It's just a simpler mechanic and so more convenient. I might embrace the "roll and count" mechanic of WoD and similar if I saw any real point to it, but the thing is that I don't - there is no need for a game mechanic to be complex beyond giving the appearance of being "advanced". To me it's just like a game that insists it must be called cartography and arachnophobia when "map making" and "fear of spiders" or "Phobia: Spiders" are just as descriptive and more convenient.

Quoting Canderous from KotOR1:

While we all discuss the ending of K2, I still find that there are several things that aren't explained at the beginning of the game. They have been discussed before, but I never felt there were any good answers to them. Now, I know that the Exile is exposed as the last jedi, which is why the Sith and the Exchange is hunting for him, but... 1. Why is the Exile returning to the Republic? Clearly he is not being forced and has booked passage on the Harbinger voluntarily. A decade ago he left the jedi order and chose exile in the outer regions. Why is he coming back? He may be a pawn of a greater game, but he doesn't know that at the beginning of the game, so why did he choose to return? 2. Where did Kreia come from? She is unconscious, persumed dead, on the floor of the Ebon Hawk after it fled the Harbinger, but how did she get there? There is nothing to suggest she was a passenger on the Harbinger, in which case she might have been on the Sith warship or the Ebon Hawk. Given her ties to the Sith, you might assume that she was on the Sith warship, except that would have placed her together with Sion after she was cast out by Sion and Nihilus. And there is one clue that she might have been on the Ebon Hawk to begin with - during the prolugue T3 can find the locker key on her body. How would she have that if she was not one of the crew? But if she was part of the crew, does that mean she went to the unknown regions with Revan and then returned with T3? I doubt that, but then how does she get on board? 3. Who are all those people dead on the Ebon Hawk? There are bodies everywhere during the prologue, but they're never explained. Are they dead Sith invaders? They don't look much like it to me...

True. I once tried a plot based on an intended assassination of King Stefan of Karameikos in the Mystara setting. Normally such a thing would be done by marksman with a crossbow or something like that, only Stefan is a D&D fighter level 15+, so not even three crossbowmen can bring him down, which is just silly. Boromir was killed by three arrows, but it cannot happen in D&D "

The trouble I have with that is that we actually saw Vandar die in the dark side ending of K1. Yes, you can argue escape pod, but it didn't seem to me that there was time for it, and even if we assume it, he's right in the middle of a battle in Sith space... Looks like the end for Vandar in any event, at lest to me, and the point of Vandar being killed on Katarr, would appear to have been thrown in there to confirm that, yes, he's quite died, whether he was killed by Revan's deception or not. Besides, if he was still alive, then what was he doing during the crisis of K2? You could argue the same for the Sunriders, I guess, but then they were not on the council... This all sounds awfully similar to the whole Dantooine part of K1. I'd suggest you try to revise this bit to make it seem less like K1. Have smuggerls use the crystal cave as a base of operations and the PC track them there while investigating a crime or something like that. I'd even get rid of the cave if there is a viable alternative.

Quite true, but we still have no idea why that is. Yavin IV is also strong in the force, but that's because Naga Sadow built his temple there, and probably because Exar Kun made his base there as well. Yoda is on Dagobah 4000 years after the KotOR era, and a lot of stuff can happen in that time... It would really be a shame to place the academy there and then discover later that what caused the place to be strong in the dark side didn't happen until a few thousand years later... That was Revan's choice, and certainly not the choice of the jedi council. They didn't even want him to fight the Mandalorians, and note how Malak comments to Revan in the flashback cutscene on Dantooine that they will be expelled from the jedi order if they pursue their search for the starmaps. In ESB Luke went against the wishes of Yoda and Ben - they knew he wasn't ready, but he felt compelled to save his friends and went anyway. In ROTJ they sent him, but not because they were willing to take a risk as much as because they had no other choice - he was now trained as much as he could be. I'm fairly certain that Ziost is still unknown. After all, none of the Sith worlds were known when the Daragons found Korriban, and even though Empress Teta found her way into Sith space by following the fleeing Naga Sadow, she still did not let her fleet stay there any longer than necessary to bring down the remnants of the Sith fleets after the battle between the forces of Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh. We don't even know which system this all took place in. However, it was unlikely to be Ziost, I think, and there is nothing to suggest that the fleet of Empress Teta retained any useful knowledge of Sith space and the locations of its worlds. It seems more likely to me that the Republic simply expanded to learn of more worlds in the meantime and that Sith worlds like Korriban and Malachor became known that way. And even so, Kreia says that these worlds are on the borders of the true Sith empire. Oh, and my plot didn't end on Ziost

Oh God! They promoted the green one! Duck for cover, everybody!!! :D Congrats to Fion and the rest

Orlando Bloom does acting now? DL <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Orlando Bloom as Disciple - he's got fangirl potential all over him to begin with and is enough pretty boy for guys to hate

Hmm, come to think of it, Canderous' comment could also be one of disapproval, sort of implying that there hasn't be a "real" Mandalore since Mandalore the Ultimate. Maybe there was a Mandalore since then that he didn't like, perhaps because he came from a competing clan or because he failed to lead properly in Canderous' eyes - the Mandalorians were beated by a bunch of righteous jedi, after all, which is probably not something Canderous likes remembering, in which case you blame your leaders... Well, another possible interpretation, I think. Besides, he might have felt justified in voicing dismissal only after taking the position of Mandalore for himself...

Perhaps, but if you look at the official maps, you'll note that worlds like Korriban, Yavin IV, Ossus, Nar Shaddaa, Sullust and Eriadu are also pretty far away from the core, which doesn't exactly suggest that Dagobah would have been unknown by the Republic at the time. In fact, Dagobah is only slightly further away from the core than Eriadu and Sullust, which are well established worlds in KotOR's era, and it actually seems to be to be closer than Yavin IV, Dantooine, or Korriban, which we have all visited in these games... Actually I wouldn't - I couldn't risk losing that jedi if she was discovered or, even worse, that she turned and joined the Sith against the order. Sure I'd want to convert Sith into Jedi, but at what price and what risk? Among the Sith she's even likely to be killed even if she isn't discovered if it suits the interests of some Sith opportunist...

The only thing you could say is "tied" to the KotOR era of Star Wars are the various "Tales of the Jedi" comic books published by Dark Horse, which all take place some 40-50 years before KotOR1 (except the books dealing with Naga Sadow and the Sith Empire, which go back a thousand years before that). None of them are particularly relevant to KotOR except as background, however. For example, you do hear of characters like Naga Sadow, Freedon Nadd, Ulic Qel-Droma, Exar Kun, and Vima Sunrider during the KotOR games, but you really don't need to explore them further unless you're interested in those characters. Still, KotOR games are obviously inspired by those stories on many occasions. The Mandalorian assault on Dxun/Onderon mentioned in KotOR2, for example, takes place toward the end of the Sith War comic books... It's all way before the time of Revan and Malak, however, so it's not important. Seems that Star Wars Tales (an comic book anthology of short stories) had a story about Visas Marr in issue 24 recently, though, but I haven't seen that. Take a look around the site of Dark Horse comics if you're interested. You can find the info on the original Tales of the Jedi series that started it all here - don't mistake the "Knights of the Old Republic" TPB there for being related to the games, though - it's simply just a collection of the five comic books on the site, which they gave that title (and long before KotOR1 was made, which tells us where that title came from...)

Actually, when you switch class, you begin as level 0 in the new class and then level up from there. The level 0 doesn't count as an actual level, however (no hp, no force powers, etc.) - it just states that you've ceased to be the old consular/sentinel/guardian that you were before and nothing more. You do immediately get a level-up so that you can take level 1 in the new prestige class, though, and that does count as an actual level. And as Battlewookiee said, you can add those levels together (your level in your original class and your level in the new prestige class) for your current total level. Also, you don't actually have to take the prestige class when you hit level 15. You can continue to take more levels in the old class, though I'm not certain how many (I'd assume you can't take more than 20, but I really don't know). It's just a good idea to switch on the spot, however.

Hmmm, I don't know about a Sith academy on Dagobah, particularly not when it's location seems to serve no particular purpose in the plot. The plot really wouldn't play out any differently if you just placed the academy on Korriban, which is already established as a site for a Sith academy in KotOR, and besides, the Sith academy doesn't seem to serve much purpose either, given that you leave it almost immediately. I'm also doubtful of Revan's entry. The whole point of K2 was that he/she was in the unknown regions fighting the true Sith, so I'd be more inclined to say that that's where we should find him/her if at all. You also manage to make the jedi seem like an invasion force assaulting the Sith as they peacefully go about teaching their students. That just seems wrong, somehow. I'd much rather have it the other way around - a jedi academy attacked by the Sith. Also, if there enough jedi to assault the academy and even have a spy on the inside, then that kind of undermines the point of K2 that the jedi were very close to having been completely wiped out. The jedi order might have recovered in time, but since you place the beginning of the story right at the end of K2, it does seem to conflict with that point of K2 and so take away from the severity of it. Anyway, my two credits...

Hmm, actually sounds rather a lot like the mechanic I had in mind for my own system... And I didn't even know SLA Industries. Great minds think alike, I guess " :cool:

Yeah, good point... I confess that I don't know the others, but then what does that tell us of the industry standard...

Yes, except building a team or gang is part of the fun, and where is the challenge if you start off with a bunch of people you don't even know? I agree that K2 did it wrong by keeping you alone for a very long time, but K1 had it right with one companion right from the beginning and then building on that. However, I'm still hoping that K3 will begin with a young jedi PC with his or her own master from the very beginning, sort of like a Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan thing, where you take the apprentice part. And stop talking about pizza - you're making me hungry!

While I'm happy for Obsidian, I'm sort of disappointed that they could win for an unfinished game... I mean, what signal does that send to the rest of the industry - it's okay to release horribly cut and unfinished games because they'll sell and get awards anyway?

Darthpon should have put "Team Gizka" up there - I would have voted for them

No, that doesn't add up. Canderous didn't become Mandalore until after the events of KotOR1, and it's in KotOR1 that HK-47 describes how he was sent to assassinate Mandalore but failed. This is indeed an inconsistency. Maybe Canderous just remembers it wrong... Also a possibility.

Is this a Lady Lumiya thing? God, that brings back memories... and not all of them good, either

Atton: "Hummmmm...." Handmaiden: "Wzzzz....." Exile: "Okay, that's it! I already told you to stop making lightsaber sounds - drop it now or lightsaber practice is over!!"

Yes, I know, but while it seems clear that Atris was to be Traya in some incarnation of the game, it's still not clear what would trigger that, and whether she would join the group as a playable character in case Kreia was Darth Traya...

Yeah, that's my main problem with GURPS 4th edition too... Still, it's minor next to the problems of many other RPG systems. If you hate class-based and don't like GURPS as skill-based, then what do you prefer?