Jediphile

Handmaiden: "My father was Yusanis, an Echani general. He went to join my mother, one whose movements and spirit matched his. I never saw her face, and she did not return from the final battle of the war. She died in the battle that shattered Malachor V, and her body was never recovered." Kreia: "Well, actually..."

What can I say - the dark side makes people do horrible things even to their own relatives. Ulic killed his brother. Anakin killed his wife and maimed and nearly killed his own son... Besides, we could also argue that Kreia's apparent lack of interest and disregard for the Handmaiden is really just a facade, and that she doesn't want her to come along because she doesn't want her daughter to be corrupted as she was. Or we could argue that she won't allow anyone to see her concern for Handmaiden, since that would be a weakness, and she cannot allow that as a Sith lord.

Well, Luke didn't sense that Vader was his father or that Leia was his sister (until the fact that he had one was revealed to him), and nor did Leia, so I don't find that to be a very compelling argument. Especially not when Handmaiden is never confronted with the possibility of Kreia being Kae... The Handmaiden is beautiful, but note how Atton mentions that Kreia must also have been beautiful once. That could be a clue. Especially when we know how the DS corrupts the look of people in K2.

Sorry, but you remember incorrectly. The actual line from Disciple is this: "Revan sought out many other teachers to learn certain techniques. I do not recall who Revan's master was... strange. As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled. Strange, I do not recall who Revan's master was after that.And it is said that he went to his first - and final - master to learn how to leave the order entirely, as she had." Note that the master Disciple fails to remember is Revan's master *after* Kae. Therefore it cannot be the first and final master, that Revan returned to in the end, and who we know is Kreia.

I disagree. Jolee was indeed "gray" since he chose to leave the rigid rules of the jedi. Once reason why I would like to see Jolee return in K3 (assuming Revan was LS, of course) is because the jedi order really needs his insights - he stayed away from the order and yet resisted the dark side, while the masters were indecisive and avoided making choices when they were desperately needed. The masters really could learn a lot from Jolee. The masters' greatest mistake was to see everything in pure black and white, LS vs. DS. By doing so, they sacrificed countless lives in the outer rim and forced Revan and Malak to defy their will. They were correct that facing the Mandalorians in war would corrupt the jedi, but they were wrong in claiming that this was all the fault of Revan and Malak. It would be all but impossible for an ethical jedi to stand by and watch innocent people die without doing anything because their masters told them not to. And by being so inflexible in their position, the masters certainly did their part in splitting the order and bringing about the Jedi Civil War. They also distanced themselves from the common people, whom they were rather too willing to sacrifice for "the greater good of the Force"...

Kreia did know her - she said so to the Exile herself. Kreia has a, ahem, talent for "misinformation", though, and I could easily believe that she would mere say that she knew Kae if she is indeed Kae herself. Note also how she refers to the third Sith Lord, who cannot be revealed too soon. That third Sith lord is clearly Kreia herself, so she obviously talks about herself in the third person. She could very easily do the same on the subject of Arren Kae, methinks. However, there are a few clues to suggest that she is indeed Arren Kae. 1. None of the masters ever mention Kreia by name. Indeed, Atris tells us that "Kreia" is not her real name. 2. When confronting the masters, Kavar mentions (without saying her name) that he thought she had died in the Mandalorian Wars. Arren Kae supposedly died on Malachor V at the end of the Mandalorian Wars. 3. When Disciple talks about Revan, he mentions that Revan was the padawan of Arren Kae. To me this suggests that Arren Kae was Revan's first master. He also mentions, as does Kreia herself, that Revan returned to his first and final master to learn how to leave the jedi order. If Kae was his first master, then Kreia must be Kae. There are other clues, like Atton mentioning that Kreia must have been beautiful once, or that Kreia seems to hide her presence from Atris when the Exile first meets Atris on Telos, or even that Kreia admits knowing the Handmaiden's mother and yet never uses that knowledge to manipulate the Handmaiden with, but I find the above three to be the major clues.

Yes, but I don't think he should put your comrades in statis - he should be so tough that he just wouldn't have to, while you really would require the aid of your comrades to take him on. Another thing is that he should have sucked life and force from your companions. Sure, the Exile and Visas can activate Force Immunity (if they're wise enough to have taken it), but Mandalore can't and so is reduced to being a power-source for Nihilus. That would really have sucked in a good way (pun fully intended) Ah, but there are those of us who think there are very specific reasons why you didn't see that in K2... "

There is also the matter of who Kreia really is. I won't get into all the speculation, except to state to fact from the game. 1. The masters mention at the meeting on Dantooine toward the end of the game, that they thought she had died during the Mandalorian Wars. Not sure, but I think it's Kavar who says it, not that it really matters... 2. When you confront Atris after meeting with the masters, she mentions that Kreia is not her real name.

Actually, I'd tend to think of something like that as being closer to DS than LS. Maiming your opponent is a pretty harsh thing to do, so it would fit better with DS, especially since it would be more difificult to do than and standard attack, and so it would be something that you would actively attempt to accomplish. Don't think we need new feats for it, though - just let the Critical Strike progressions make it possible. That might even get me to choose it over Flurry for once... I don't think jedi should get DS points for using it per se, though. There is already precedent for having cybernetic prosthetics in the KotOR age. Ulic Qel-Droma's brother, Cay, had his arm cut off during the Beast Wars on Onderon (Tales of the Jedi #2) and had it replaced with a prosthetic. Wasn't like Luke's, however, but was more like a robotic arm, suggesting that the technology was indeed more primitive. Actually his "prosthtic" arm is from an old XT-6 droid, which he salvaged. He then has that one cut off too and must replace it with yet another droid arm... "

Didn't see Obi-Wan taking any DS points for doing it to Anakin, so I guess that settles that...

Probably because the number tries to go into the negative and can't, so it begins counting from the top again - the maximum of four hex digits (FFFF) translates to exactly 255 in the decimal system. Still, that's just scary - a smart Hanharr? Exile: "Oh there you are Hanharr. Glad to see you. Heard you had a disagreement with Disciple, but since you're sitting here all quiet now, I guess you sorted out your problems... What are you doing, anyway?" Hanharr [translated from Wookiee]: "Oh, I'm having an old friend for dinner...."

Shouldn't be a problem. Most players are level 23-27 once they reach Kreia, and since her power/vitality, etc. seems to be depending on your own, it really doesn't matter - Kreia is always tough because her power level is scaled to match your own. That said, there's no reason why you couldn't be higher leveled. It would give your more options and, especially, powers to use against her. Unless, of course, you've already reached Malachor V. Once you get there, there is no way off that rock, and there is no infinity xp to get there, meaning that the xp you can get on Malachor V are pretty fixed. If you want infinity xp, then it's either the Sith attack on the Mandalorian camp on Dxun or the respawning Hssiss at the jedi corpse in the tomb on Korriban (the latter is best if you're DS). I hear there's a level cap at level 50, but I've never actutally reached it myself - what would be the point?

Yes! In fact there should be a whole tree of de-limbing feats: Level 1 : Cuts off Hand - Moderate Damage, Moderate Reduction to attack & defense, Enemy forced in incur off-hand pernalties. High Diffucutly Count. Level 2 : Cuts off Leg - Heavy Damage, Heavy Reduction to attack and defense, Enemy immoblized and rooted to the spot. Very High Difficulty Count. Level 3: Cuts off Head - Instant Kill. Ludicrously High Difficulty Count. :cool: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I can see it now... PC: "But you don't have any arms left!" Black Knight: "It's just a flesh wound - the Black Knight always wins!!"

Yes, I've run into that bug myself, though not for Hanharr. The last time I managed to fix it, though. When it happened, I cancelled (because my skill points were suffering, and that was actually important) and retried a few times with the same result. Then I tried cancelling out of advancement, saving the game, and then reloading it. That didn't help. But then I tried exiting the current game (but KotOR itself) and then reloading my quicksave. Worked like a charm. Try that if the problem persists. That is, if it happens, cancel out of level-up progression, then save, then exit the game, and finally reload your game.

Nods in agreement. It was a good game, though. I ran it on Windows XP without any trouble as I recall, though that was pre-Service Pack 2. I'm thinking of trying it again next week, and you're right - the story had some very nice touches. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I really liked the way it turned out... once you found the four rings (avoiding spoilers) - you've completed the quest, and then "WTF!! Boy, does that SUCK!!" That was really tense. The revelation of you being Revan was nothing next to that

I tend to agree, but Kreia wouldn't have seen it that way, since she would not like to think that her greatest student was a failure too. I like how they did in K2 - they just suggested that maybe, just maybe, Revan never failed, but instead made a sacrifice. What's good about is that it's up to the individual player - did Revan fall or did he sacrifice himself - your choice! It really doesn't make much difference either way, but in one he is a failure and in the other he is a martyr - you choose. Personally I tend to think that Revan made the same choice as Ulic did - he chose a sacrifice to conquer the darkness, but though he made that sacrifice willingly, he was still overpowered by the dark side and corrupted by it. As Yoda would say, "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny!" Or as Luke puts it at the end of the "Dark Empire I" comic books, "One Jedi cannot conquer the dark side alone. I made a big mistake... I thought I had to save the galaxy all by myself. But the Way of the Jedi is not a solitary path. Many have died defending the Truth... many are together in this great war... Together in the Force!"

Well, a bunch of others have mentioned Fallout 1 and 2, the KotOR games, Planescape: Torment, etc. All decent games. I also like The Summoner (the first one). Trouble is it doesn't seem to run on Windows XP, so I can't play it anymore It's rather simple, but there are some very nicely done suprises in the plot along the way, and some of the background info is really great - I love that they have tales in a village by the lake, that the lake will flood the village and drown everybody if the dragon that lives in the mountains is ever sad, and so they have a festival of fun each year to keep it amused. It's probably completely stolen from chinese mythology or some such, but they use of it was good. They do reuse some of the areas way too much, though, particularly Lenele (those who've played will nod in agreement here...) The Gothic games are also good. I only finished the first one, but they both have pretty good plot and try to be fairly open. No. 1 can easily be made unsolvable on that account on several points, so I'd advice playing with a guide and keeping many savegames... The combat system isn't exactly my favorite in either game, either... But they're still good games IMHO:

True. The only problem with Force Resistance/Immunity is that there are about two characters in the game who would make you use it - Nihilus and Kreia. You don't even really need it against Nihilus, since he goes down so fast once you poke him with your lightsaber a few times... Nobody else ever makes you need it, so the chances are good you didn't take it, and once you reach Kreia, it's too late... Otherwise I'd suggest you stay clear of her and keep some distance. When the floating lightsabers come, make sure to turn and run about a bit, so that they get scattered. Then you can pick them off one by one at leisure by luring them to the side caves. You want to explore those anyway, since there are some nice items stored there. Be sure to use your protective powers. Energy Resistance (and progressions), Force Enlightenment/Master Speed, and Force Resistance/Immunity are all excellent in the fight against Kreia. If you start to go down in vitality, retreat, heal your wounds, all your force points to recover, then activate all your protective powers and assault her in melee again with everything you have - Kreia is a force power-user, so she's not well equipped to withstand your physical attacks (though she does have a ton of vitality points...). Make sure to retreat when she summons the lightsabers.

I agree that this rumor looks quite bogus, but aren't you being a little overzealous? Bastilla only posted a link, and she even said "possible KotOR3 rumor", suggesting to me that she was herself doubtful about its veracity. I'd be skeptical too, if she (or anyone else) had posted the text itself here as a fake press release, but she can't even post a link? I mean, it's not as if there aren't a lot of peculiar links on these boards... As for the rumor itself, yes, it looks totally untrue. "Hi, this is the real KotOR3 news and I'll spill it. You won't see it confirmed or denied by the devs yet, because they're just redoing their site, but just take my word for it!" - Yeah right... The devs conveniently being unable to confirm or deny smells more than a little fishy to me. Still, I'm quite happy to read all the rediculous K3 rumors I can find. But until I see actual confirmation of one on the Lucasarts site, I'll take whatever I hear or read with several grains of salt, and I advice others to do the same... Speculation can fun, but it's still just speculation.

One thing I think we should discuss a bit more concerns the NPCs or companions you have in the KotOR games. In K1 you had nine companions, but to be perfectly honest, I used very few of them. I never used T3, at all. I took him from the droid shop to the Sith Base on Taris, so that he could unlock the door (since only he can do that) and then dropped him before entering - I never used him after that. Zaalbar was another forgettable character. It was cool to have your own wookiee pal, but as soon as you got real jedi in the group, he soon went into retirement on the Ebon Hawk. Same for Canderous and HK-47. HK-47 was only used in the sandpeople encounter on Tatooine, and after Taris, Carth was used only when the plot demanded it. But bad though that might be, you actually have more companions in K2 - 10 in all, and there are actually 12 potential companions depending on alignment and gender. Yet the problem persists - you use only very few of them. Though more of them can be jedi now, you still can use only two next to your PC, and building them is less significant, since the game forces you to be alone during major parts of the plot. So what's the use of having all these NPCs at all? I doubt anybody ever uses them all. Does anyone ever use Mandalore, except on the Ravager when you have no other choice? Does anybody ever use GOTO at all? How about HK-47 and T3 (after Peragus)? I usually just you Kreia (bonus xp) and whatever other jedi is more convenient (Disciple, if I play female, since he can restore force points for me). I think they should make a lot of NPCs more temporary in K3. If it's unlikely you'll use a certain character beyond a certain point, then that character might as well leave the group.

Personally, I don't think it's the same thing, but even if I did, I'd still like duality of the system. Besides, I wouldn't want only one stat to dictate how fast combat floats, since that's where I find AD&D combat to be too simplistic - it's always down to your Dexterity in D&D, and that makes Dexterity rather important in that system. And I've always felt that this in turn leads to other silly ideas in D&D placed there just for the sake of retaining game balance - there is no reason why Strength should influence your melee to-hit probability, for example. So that's one reason. If you want to be really fast in combat, they you'll have to be agile enough to perform your actions with perfect grace and have fast reactions as well.

The lightsaber battle between Vader and Obi-Wan was a major point in the original film, but neither of them were the protagonist of that story... I think they could do something like that if they wanted. For example, you could have a different main character, and yet establish that Revan or Exile has turned DS and that only the other can fight him/her.

Come on and admit it - you love to hate this topic If you didn't then why would you read it, let alone respond? It's not actually that hard to simply not click on it. And, of course, by responding to it, you're helping to keep it alive. So maybe I should thank you for your contribution

Hehe, well you know I'll accept that idea if you've read my K3 plot suggestions Only trouble with it is that the it was never established, so we still can't tell either way. It fits well with some of the Exile's other behaviour, which I find a bit odd at times. There definitely seems to be things he "forgets" rather conveniently...