Volourn

To have fun with the topic, Gamespot will have a 1 hours presenattion overview of ME tomorrow. This should include in game video. Check BIO pages for links. Now, back, to the apparantly more interesting topic.

Screw the world! Creation! Heck, I'm sure Atari runs Hell itself!!! "May be Bio's Live Team support NWN 2. Who knows?" Why? They're still supporting NWN1 including, most likely, future modules and possibly even 1 more patch. Plus, NWN2 isn't BIo's game or responsibility. It's Obsidian and Atari's.

"Depends if they dedicate a live team to it or not similar to what Bio is doing. With income flowing in from DD content, they could keep the game supported for everyone, even those who won't buy a single DD mod." Honestly, I doubt it. I don't think they're interested in supporting those who plan to use the game besdies those who buy it just for the OC. Obsidian has made it clear the 10-30% of buyers who do play the game outside of the OC simply aren't that important. They'll make the campaign great (I hope). They'll patch once or twice. And, that's it, barring another official in store expansion. I don't see them 'wasting time' on a Live Team when only a 'handful' of customers take advantage of it. Afterall, as successful as the DD BIO modules have apparantly been, I doubt BIO has gotten rich off them 'cause only the hardcore NWN players buy them - not the majority of players who buy a game, play the camapign once, and then move. I'll be pleasantly surprised now if I wa sproven wrong about this. I was very optimistic before. P.S. Like i said, I'm still buying the game, 'cause it will likely be worth it in my view, but people ar ekididng themselves if they think that obsidian views NWN2 as a long term product like BIO obviously viewed NWN1. Not too surprising considering that BIo had to fight tooth and nail just to get the game released while Obsidian had a million + seller handed to them. It's not 'theirs' so to speak. The campaign will rock at least... as long as nothing else is cut... :ph34r: P.S.S. Crap. I'm sounding way too pessmistic now.... Too negative. That was *not* my intent when I first heard the news. LOL :D

"First a rather short campaign. Second the lack of DM Client.. What will be the third? Lack of Toolset? Vista Exclusive title?" I think NWN2 will be great. It'll be a fun game where I the OC 2-3 times, and probably enjoy playing mods (and posisbly making one when I finally finish my NWN1 or with RP if he's still interested). However, I do NOT see Obsidian supporting this post release like BIO did. That's not meant as offense; but just an observation. BIo went above, and beyond what we fans should expect for post release support. Too bad too. I thoguht NWN2 would uphold that (brief) NWN franchise tradition...

Yeha, problem with it being a part of the patch though it's no longer something we pay for; but a free add on. So, now when buying NWN2 you aren't guaranteed the DM Client.

Sure doesn't take long for Hades to change his mind...

"I've never played a NWN game with the DM Client, and i dont feel like i'm missing out on anything." Outside of strictly single player games, if you played any sort of on line NWN like PWs; you've likely taken advamntage of the Dm Client. Remember, a lot of modmakers also make use of the DM Client to test their mods - SP or otherwise. I know I do. On top of this, the DM Client even more then the toolset or the MP is what sets it apart and above other RPGs of this ilk. It's also why NWN is the closest thing you'll find to real pnp as you'll get a DM. Still, I will buy the game 'cause it's still offering enough of what I want a game. However, it's another example of things being cut 'cause it isn't the first. And, people should stop trying to blame Atari for these cuts. Afterall, originall teh word from Obsidian was that the Dm Client would be 'untouched' now they aren't evenr eleasing a major feature of the game, and that is exactly what it is. Even if only 15-25% take advantage of the DM Client in any way; it's still a blow. NWN will still sell a million copies though. They won't delay the game over it because Sepember is the due date most likely. However, they've had and will have plenty of time to make the game. 2+ years just like BG2 whose SP was/is much long than the NWN2 OC will be. It's sloppy poor project management on the part of Obsidian. Good thing they'll be getting 90% of the game right so that's cool.

LOL :D

I wish for the days when I actually looked forward to Mario games... that wa snearly 20 years.. if so, then I'd want a new wiiwii.

Alanshu wins.

"If that's not loyalty, I don't know what is." It is loyalty. Loyalty to *me*. I owe BIO nothing. They owe me nothing. I buy things I want. In the end, it doesn't matter who made it. I didn't know or care about BIO before BG. And, if it wasn't for me getting stuck on the 'net, I probably wouldn't waste time thinking about them all. But, hey, what else is there to do on the 'net but argue that x is better than ye? LOL "Exactly, so you have loyalty to them." Nope. Again, I have loyalty to *me*.

"Sure you can, look at you and BioWare." Nope. I'll don't buy everything BIO makes simply because BIO makes it. If I did, I'd be all over DD. I still haven't played two of their games nor have I played POTSC despite it being a module for my favorite game. My loyalty when it come sto gaming is 100% for me. It's all about me. I buy, play, and praise games I think, do, and will like. The only reason why I 'pimp' BIO so much is because I tend to enjoy the games they make; not because they simply are BIO. Again, I point to the whole DD issue of this that I have no loyalty to BIO. You can't buy or sell loyalty. It's bollocks to think otherwise. However, it should be pointed out that I never claimd that customers don't help to make businesses succeed. of course, they do. Afterall, they buy the products and services. However, customers tend to spend money on products/services they feel are worth their money, and that's why the company itself is more important because a company will fail if they are doing something customers don't want. There's a reason why some companies succeedd, and others fail even though they're selling almost the same thing - it's because some companies are good at what they do; and others not so much. Game over. "If you have built up a large fanbase doing one thing, then you go do something else that works contradictory to their interests, it's bound to annoy some of that base and can be considered as abandonment of their interests." Thanks. You just admited it. They're not true 'fans'; just selfish people only looking out for their own interests. I rest my case. No loyalty there at all. Nothing wrong with being selfish in this case; but let's call us spades. We want what we want no matter what. We don't care if BIo (or some other company) succeeds or fails. We just want 'em to make games we want. That's the way it should be; but it certainly isn't loyalty.... unless it's loyalty to one's self you mean. LOL :D

nArtwAk 4 THA W!!!

"Volourn, the money from customers is what makes a company successful in the long run. If you can't understand that basic concept, I can't help you" if you cna't get the simple concept that companies are the engineers of their successes and failures; then I can't help you. Again, people buy BIO games because BIO makes games they want hence BIO is why they succeed. That's all that matters. "Again, they're making JE for the PC to get more money, not out of the goodness of their hearts." Likely, if it was *only* about money they would have ported it right away. They likely a greta portion of the PC customer base for JE PC simply because many went out and bought the x-box stritcly for that. Plus, once again, youa re right. In the end, it's about money. Companies owe customer sno loyalty because customers don't know what true loyalty is. You can't buy loyalty. period. If you bought BG2; BIO owed you BG2... not future PC games. Even though, they *are* making PC games. This is a fact, there is no abandonment on their part of the PC customer base. Once again, the big lesson here is simple: You. can't. buy. loyalty. NOR You. can't. sell. loyalty. Once money is involved, loyalty is no longer involved. Period.

Read the previews. It should have as much role-playing as the other BIO RPGs, and likely more... take that as you will (for those who think BIO's games have no role-playing )... It should easily be better than the overrated KOTOR. That's for sure.

"People buying the games they made is what made them successful. You can make a great game and if no one buys it, it's still a financial failure." Like I said, they've made games that people want to buy. That's the key phrase here. You cna make a 'great' agme that people don't want to play; but BIO make sgame that for whatever reason (hype, same views, etc.) that people *want* to play. That's why they are successful because THEY made themselves successful. This is undisputable. When, and if, BIO stops making games people don't wnat to play then they will crash and burn. "I meant available Volourn. A few tidbits on an official message board and a crappy website don't amount to much." ME isn't available either. So, it doesn't count either. In which case, their last 3 game shave been JE (x-box), KOTOR (x-box/PC), and NWN (PC). Seems rather even to me. "Two years after it was released? They just want all the sales they can garner so the game doesn't end up being such a financial let-down." You do relaize that the game will have to sell on PC to make up the cost opf the port, right? They've said JE's port will take a year at least. And, no, JE's sales wasn't a finanical left down. In fact, MS disagrees with your assessment 100% as does BIo, and theya re the ones who determine if it was a 'financial letdown' since it effects them. " They don't give a rats ass about PC gamers." That explains why they've decided to make JE for PC. That they jsut released another NWN patch, and are planning even more PM. Not to mmention Dragon Age which is, according to them, their biggest game yet - even bigger than ME or JE. "I'm a BioWare fan, I own an Xbox, yet I don't have Jade Empire, I doubt I'm alone." That's funny. You own an x-box, and don't own JE. Yet you call yourself a BIo fan. L0LLERS! Just admit you are a PC fan. Not a BIo fan. BIG difference. A BIo fan would buy their games (if they can afford to) no matter the platform it was. Me? i'll buy games that I can afford and that i'm interested. It just so happens that usually BIO makes games I want. "That's crap." No, that's fact.

Who's fighting? I LOVE everyone!

or e) BIo fanboys like me (and 90% of this baord whether they admit to it or not *cough* Hades *cough*)! :D " :D

"As far as I know, Jade Empire for example was BioWare's lowest selling game to date(post Baldur's Gate)?" Yeah, of course it was competing with brand names (KOTOR and NWN) as well as a multi platform title in KOTOR. Not to emntion, the 1 billion versions of NWN out there as well and all the rereleases. Not a very comaprision. Yet, it has still sold 600k+ copies (and, that was good 6+ months ago so that number has likely increased and at leats in my area the price is still decent).. Plus, there's the simple fact that JE is 1 million times better than KOTOR. R00fles! ME will hopefully be better than both.

"Two Xbox exclusives and not a PC game in sight." Dragon Age. " Way to remember the people who made you successful in the first place guys!" They are. The people who made them successful are Bioware employees. They owe us nothing. We didn't make them successful. Them making games people wnat to play is what made them successful. And, oh, JE is coming to PC because BIo does remember their PC customers. Period.

Another preview in a flimsy attempt to get this back on topic: http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/massef...tml?sid=6150171 "It's just so damned bland, no amount of cool concept art can change that." Agreed... which si why there are previews that actually discuss the game(s) and what they're about and what their respective goals are...

How long would you live during the Apocalypse? till the very end when the apocalypse comes you will be the survivor

If you want to read some more previews of ME go to the BIO main page for links. There's a handful of 'em. Most cover basically the same stuff; but each one is possibly sprinkling with the author's views. Here's one freebee: http://xbox360.gamedaily.com/news/?id=10572

But, but, but, publishers are EVILLLL!!!!!

DA, JE, and NWN are all more than lip service.