Volourn

"If a sufficient number of folks start to voice concern on an issue, there will be an answer." Hmm.. This kinda proves the DM Client *is* more important than the German article/OC length is. He has yet to answer the OC length stuff personally yet he's already addressed the DM Client stuff. Go figure. edit: "then hit

"You, Vol, would help me do so." "But you gotta have faith..doo doo, doo doo." Old man! I love that song or at least that part of it! :D "Why would you demand answers in a thread Feargus isn't likely going to read, though? You could easily shake things up and make a big issue (well, bigger than here, anyway) out of it at the NWN2forums." Not tonight. Length of OC threads would likely drown in the sea of DM Client threads over there. LOL

"Then I'd suggest waiting until the DM client comes out, if it is that big of a deal to you." Read the entire thread, and come back to me on this comment. Thank you for your cooperation.

"so, you simply gonna ignores that your reliance on the josh answer conflicts with your acceptance of the 30+ hours number?" Huh? I don't accept the 30+ hours estimate as fact. I'm using it as evdience that these previewers don't know whhat the length will be.. because Obsidian isn't 100% sure yet as evdienced by Mr. Sawyer's comments. And, yeah, I'm all about sucking up the 'boss'. Have you been reading this thread at all? "'course a problem occurs if we apply same logic to other mp aspects of the game, and the toolset." Or gnomes and halflings. Hardly anyone uses them. Might as well take away evil chocies in quests; because the majority of players play the game once and usuaully the good way so need for all the extra effort that will be poured into the evil part. The more people say parts that only a minority would use cna be cut and no lose is what leads to a game being gutted all to heck. Just look at the existence of DDO and POR2 as proof.

"Which is exactly why it should be rushed out. " No. It's why it should be part of the actual game... if that means the game should be delayed so be it. SP will buy the game whenever it comes out (at leats the ones here). Everybody here talks about what the 'masses' want like they actually know. LOL :D I'll stick with detailing my own selfish needs, and wants from this game.

"that estimate were from fergie himself" No. It was attributed to them through a deciphering on the Codex boards from some German magazine/site. Nice try though. Anyways, good tatic. on trying to take over this topic!

"again, don't you think you is being naive? he has refused to answer, direct or indirect, for quite some time now.... in spite of the fact that numerous very long threads on this and the bio boards has been asking the questions over and over and over. yet you think that fergie would answer if the mods honestly put the question to him?" It's very much a dea dissue on the BIo baords (unles syou just started a new one),a nd the 'ol thread about it is her eis now dead too. Seriously, outside of you and Eldar and maybe a handful of others the silly article that gots you all riled up is dead. Afterall, the most recent article has it in the 30+ hours range. Think of that, SUCKA! And, more important, Mr. Sawyer for all its worth answered your question. Obsidian does not know how long the campaign will last yet. I'm sure they'll announce it when thy can. heck, I'm sure an estimate will be on the back of the box. Game over.

Alanshu: "In any case, I am curious how many people actually use the DM client. I know lots of people play multiplayer (though I suspect that they are dwarfed by the number of people that play single player anyways), but do they actually play in DM games? Or are they just a vocal minority?' I would say people who actually use the DM Client is small. However, those who partake in PWs, mP DM sessions, or even mods like have benefitted from it. Though, I'm the last one to talk since I'm still working in (lol); I use the DM Client A LOT to test my module's scripts, dialogues, and combat balance. Very useful. And, yes, the number is 'dwarfed' by SP; but that doesn't make them negligent in determining the cash Obsidian/Atari would lose. Though, many like myself, while wanting the DM Client also wnat the SP so we're even more unimportant to Obsidian and Atari's decision process in that regard. Grom: He doesn't answer the questions about the camapign length as the Lead Designer Mr. Sawyer ALREADY answered them. You just haven't accepted his answer yet. That's your problem. Eldar: Should Mr. U reply to every rumour started? Afterall, in the last few weeks I've sen previews listing the OC as 20 hours, 20-30 hours, 30-40 hours, and even 40-60 hours. The best he could do is an estimate. I'd say wait til the Final previews (ie. when review sites get their GOLD copies) before taking any length guestimates seriously.

Couple of threads.. no dev replies. It goes to show they realize how important the DM Client is compared to rumours started at the Codex spamming about a German magazine sprouting off about the OC length. LOL In fact, it's no contest.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/jadeempire/...tml?sid=6150729 "The Xbox game is being ported to the PC by LTI Gray Matter, a development house that has handled several console ports for Activision." Neato. BIO isn't doing the port of the game. This keeps the JE team free to do work on JE2!!! Heheh! Interesting development though.

Great post, Eldar. My only beef with it is you said it so much nicer and gentler than me!!! "

For the record, I never accused them of lying about this. Just of poor management. They just realized NOW that the NWN1 DM Client might not be compatible with NWN2 in its exact form? Ok then.

"I thought this was an action game?" It's an Action RPG. the combat from what I can see is described ala KOTOR. PC + 2npcs, you make decisions, character stats effect success, you cha have AI control npcs or you can switch to them and control and you can pause to give orders. Sound slike KOTOR combat to me. Hoepfully, it's deeper and more challenging though. And, there are non combat skills and dialogue ones have been confirmed in the various previews.

Bottom line is that the DM Client was part of the game being pimped. What makes this worse was Obsidian stating (mor eor less) the following: The DM Client is staying as it was in NWN1. It does what it needs to do. We feel other aspects of the game (graphics, a full controllable party, and toolset) need adjustments so we'll focus on those. Now, 4 months away from release (from what we know now) they ar eplanning to work on the DM Client. That's poor management planning. Too bad too as lots of the stuff looks awesome. For the record, I'm still planning to buy NWN2 'cause it offers other things I want - OC which will probably be gutted to meet release with 'quality'), the toolset, and MP. But, remember, none of us our buying the DM Client. That's now relegated to a 'bonus' material patch. Which means it means nothing. Too badd too because the DM Client is the ONLY thing that sets NWN2 from its competitors. Good fun.

"If the DM client is released a month after the game goes retail, how does your experience change compared to the game being delayed an extra month?" Simple. The DM Client was suppoosed to apart of the game. Now, it's not, and might be added as a bonus patch. It's no longer a part of what they are selling.

"Except the promise they made in the post quoted. I know it's not a legal obligation, but it speaks clearly to their intent." Like horses? Like it being included in the release. Someone on the BIo baords pulledan old quote up from obsidian stating how they were going to treat ALL aspects of NWN (SP OC, MP, toolset, and DM Client) with equal respect. They also understood that NWN series is *not* most games. In fact, it's the existence of the DM Client that makes it special. Things change. After the game is release, they don't owe us any more content (other than patching obvious major bugs like crashes and stuff). That's why to me in this case, if it means delaying the game to get the DM Client inside the package they should do it. Besides, the 'I don't care attitude' of some, I doubt the SP will *not* buy the game if it's release is delayed to November.

"Volourns argument that if it's not in the game at release they may not do it at all is more understandable," My argument is they won't need to. The game si release. Those who buy the game knowing the DM Client isn't included in the package (this includes me, sadly enough) are stating with their money quite clearly the game is wrothy of $50+ without it so they don't have no obligation to release it all. "Fine, I'll be playing a LG Paladin with a hammer tomorrow!" That's the spirit! But, it must be a human (everyone loves humans) male (females are a minority in gaming so no need to support that either)!!!

"We ESPECIALLY need to cut the easter eggs." Yeah, only 3.75% of the gamers ever notice them! That's far less than the 10-30% that use/take advantage of the DM Client. (w00t)

Nah. No worries there. I have a whole universe to high from them; not just one small desert. (w00t) Anyways, I really want to see this 'new' dialogue system in action.

Of course. Most people won't use it anyways. Or halflings. or gnomes. Or the identify spell. Or the rapier. Or the light crossbow. And, the list goes on. Hardly anyone plays campaigns the 'evil way' so let's cancel that. They do that, I'm sure they can get the game out next month. HOORAY!

You are right. It's not a bad thing. It's a HORRIBLE thing. Almost as bad as them cancelling dwarves or 'postponing their own inclusion 'til an expansion' since most people don't use 'em...

Well.. it's true. Both KOTORs tended to ahve worlds that consisted of town-small travel area-dunegon. Hopefully, ME will squash that silliness and have TRUE worlds. "I should stick this thread in the Kotor forums and let the fanbois have a go at you." LOL I'm mostly refeerring to the worlds as actual worlds thing. :D Either way: BRING IT ON.

Hassat, nothingw rong with people feeling this way. At least people ar ebeing honest here - they're selfish. It's all about them. That's the way I feel too. The DM Client is simply a part of NWN:The Game tm. No matter of exuses made can say otherwise plus if Obsidian is welling to cut this (and, that's what this is, as they don't owe it to us to release the DM Client in the patch when we buy the game in stores w/o it); I'm sure they'll willing to cut some cool SP stuff as well. "But the single player (and module building) experience will be completely unaffected by the non-inclusion of the DM client" Wrong. It does effect it. The DM Client is part of the NWN game. It's what makes NWN REAL D&D while every other D&D game like TOEE, BG, and the GB games are pretenders to the thrown. That's ok. NWN2 will be worthy of 2-3 playthroughs - just like NWN OC, BG, IWD, and so.... as long as more things aren't cut. Let's also forget about extensive post release support as well. P.S. Again, nothing wrong with beings elfish. I'm selfish too. I want it ALL. And, with the DM Client possibly being released in a patch only, I won't own it nor will Obsidan be obligated to release it at all.

http://www.actiontrip.com/features/e32006masseffect.phtml It sounds like we're gonna have a real universe this time.... and, finally someoen tells the truth - this isn't 'shooter combat'; but typical BIO RT combat (good or bad depending on your view <>). Good stuff. P.S. The other thread was robbed so I'm starting a new REAL ME thread... at least for 1 page hopefully. :D

"Ehh not really. Anyone looking for a single player game won't even notice the difference. The toolset will be there for module builders so they wont need to complain about not having the tools. The DM client will be released in time I assume since Atari will be financing patches whereas Lucasarts weren't too bothered about KotOR2. Would you detractors really rather having none of the game until the DM client is ready than having the SP game plus toolset untill it's good to go? " Most anyone looking to play the single palyer only do so once and tend to do it with humans, and elves (and possibly dwarves) so they shouldn't bother including gnomes, halflings, and half-orcs til a patch either. 10-30% of the NWN/NWN2 population uses the Dm client... about 2% (or less uses gnomes and halflings)... that's a big chunk. And, getting the DM Client in a later free patch is not the same as having it in game. Once we purchase NWN2 in stores with the knowledge that the DM Client isn't part of the package... they NO LONGER have any obligation to give it to us. At all. That's why, for me, the idela situation is for them to do their best to get it in there even if it means delaying it. It's like them saying out of 30 hours of the OC, 10 hours can't be done with quality so we'll release the other 20 hours and they let you download the remaining 10 hours in a patch. LOLOLOLLIPOP