Volourn

"It is not a major selling point." Yes it is. It's one of the most hyped features of the NWN franchise. It's the thing that makes NWN different to other games. People seem to think that somehow the DMC costs Obsidian sales... yet the success of NWN itself disproves this theory.. unless youa re saying that NWN sold more than BG2 on the basis that it's SP OC wa stronger than BG2? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! btw, I think people give more weight to gnomes and halflinsg. A very, very, very small minority use them. Heck, very people play the OC more than once and hardly of the masses play evil. Let's cut that stuff 'cause as you say it isn't a 'major selling point'. Take that.

Yet... he owns all the consoles including the 2 not released yet... he just doesn't realize it...

That's ebcause they've given up. I mean seriously, let's take a look at the common Nintento perception and facts: 1. They're kiddified. And, don't point out the exception to the rule. That's exactly what they are. This is bad in an age where the average gamer is an adult. I used to love Mario.... when I was a kid. 2. Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. That's just dumb. No one I've heard outside of the net actually cares for the name. In fact, they are SHOCKED that Nintento would be stupid enough for such a thing. 3. Their dumb controller which as much as they claim it is far from 'innovative', and if that's the only 'innovation' they gots theys ares screweds.

When did I say you did?

"I still didn't like Dungeon Siege 2, but not admitting that it's a step forward for the franchise is just dumb." When did I say it wasn't? Just because it's 'improved' from DS1 doesn't mean it's worth risking MY dollars on it. And, no amount of sucking up from people who WANT me to waste my dollars on a crap series is gonna change that.

"This demo is not representative for the full product... Error message 001: This is no demo Error message 002: They are two totally different games" Close enough for government work. Close enough for me when determining if I shall waste my $50 on a game. The end.

"A long long time ago somebody though up the DEMO" I did play the Dungeon Seige 2 demo. It was called Dungeon Seige 1.

360 gots my dollars... next year....

Well, like everything, it come sup from time to time.. repeatedly.. I'm sure it was replied to at least a couple of times (like everything else that needs repeating, lol)... "as I played MP without using the DM client" Well.. like I said, the estimate is 10%-30% for MP. I don't believe BIO ever gave even a semi official estimate for the DMC itself. They really can't since there's no way to track someone using it... That's why i went with my 15% figure as well; because as you emntioned playing Mp doesn't instantly mean DMC either.. though, many modules are built with the DMC as an aid.. Plus, anyone playing PWs has atken advantage of that even if they, themselves, haven't played DM... and, that's a lot of people.. And, of course, there's NW Connections... No, majority, not by a long shot, but definitely not a meaningness number as BIo themselevs have pointed out... Why do you think BIO does stuff for PWs even though they don't 'officially' support them? Because, while relatively a small group, they're not completely irrelevant...

Ok. 4 months. Half a year. Pick a number. But, it's obvious they weren't really paying attention to potential problems with the DMC 'til recent. Afterall, throughout the development we were told quite explicitely the DMC would be the same as the NWN1 DMC, and there would be no work done on it 'cause it was fine as it is.... That's what leads to the conclusion that this 'oopsy' occured recently' - not neccessarily the day it was announced; but definitely not for that long. There's also the fact that mr. U stated and his posts in the alst few days they'r ein the process NOW in determining on how to deal with the issue... If they had known about this since the beginning they'd likely would have had a gameplan in palce... I have my conspiracy theories bought that's all they are so they don't count and remain secret. :D

"Initially it wasn't expected to be changed. Later, (I suspect after engine rewrites and whatnot), it apparently has. We don't even know that it hasn't been touched...just that it won't be finished. I'm sure other details were considered higher priority during development at various points in time." Yeah, this is likely all true. It just gets me because they had said the DMC would be as it was in NWN2 so they felt there was *no need* for it touched as it was acceptable and they could concentrate on other stuff that *needed* updates/upgrades.. ie.. graphics, 3.5 rules, the brand new OC (where they'll get most of their $)... and, now, 4 months before the scheduled release it's "Oops! The DMC isn't done yet... we're working on it! I want two things to happen so I cna get the MC on disk which is all I ask: 1. They manage to comeplete any work they need to on it in time. Failing that.... 2. They do what NWN did, and have expansions and then have a 'mega release' of official game +2 expansions + patch in one. That way would be cool as I would have the DMC on CD (or DVD if I decide to switch over by then)... "A DM Client exists, but not one that works with NWN2." Yeah... they shoulda figured that out well before 4 months pre release, I would think...

"Don't suppose you'd know what appropriate search criteria I should search for?" I would wager MP vs. SP type searches.. there were a lot of debate on that espicially around HOTU with the hubaloo. Search various BIO posts starting with Dave Gaider. "Assuming that they didn't sell more than than a million units, that would put the DM Client usage to 100,000-300,000 range." 2 mil + at least. However, even at that clip of 100 to 300 thousand peeps, most of them are not likely gonna be the hardcore 'no DMC no sell' types either. I'd figure the @ is probably 1% which is why Obsidian *can* get away with dropping the DMC. But, then again, my argument has never been that without the DMC, NWN2 would not sell. Of course, it's gonna sell. It would likely sell 1 million + copies with half the races, half the classes, no evil method, no toolset, no MP, and no DMC. That doesn't really prove much. "Fortunately it's easy to add a gnome/halfling." Add a gnome or halfling with anmodel and its base stats, yes. But, you gotta include various dialogue checks at times, you gotta makes sure the weapons, armour, and other stuff work with them without clipping, and with the new sizing rules, there's that for Obsidian to take into account. Not so easy then. Still, likely, easier than the DMC. Then again, the DMC, is just a fancier version of the Player Client and throw in some toolset toolset (more complicated then I make it sound lol) "Not to mention the fact that the game already has support for them built in as NPCs are gnomes and halflings." As the DMC already exists.. They're changing and updating it though... soemthing they likely should have done from the start.. insatead of not touching it all for most of the dev process (from the sounds of it anyways)... That's my biggest beef...

The BIO boards. I'm not gonna do a search for you. This should be common knowledge after 4 years I would think. Do a search here: www.bioware.com. There's your link. The estimates now range depending on the teller... those in favor of MP claim high, and people trying to prove a point about SP's popularity like Grom claim 10% of those MP. Remember, the 30% high is MP exlsuive so that's why I'm willing to go with 15% of those who use/take advantage of the DMC in some way. Even if you go with a low estimate of 5% for the DMC itself... that's still higher than those who use gnomes/halflings through playing the SP OC ionce then thropwing the game in the trash. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLIPOP

"Based on what exactly?" BIO's estimations... "Three letters can best describe you and the given circumstances. S-O-L" Yup.

"That's silly. Basically what you're saying is that you're not paying for the DM, and yet, you're complaining about that! Exclamation point." Because I want to own. What happens if I lose the interent, and my computer crashes/breaks (cause a part going byebye which happens) and I have to reinstall; but I want to use the DMC to work on a module while I get my internet back up? Guess what? I can't. Why? 'cause I need the patch the DMC isn't on the disc!!! I wnat it on the disc. Once I pay that $50, I don't want to be at the emrcy of the internet for something that was supposedly a 'part of the game', and Obsidian claimed was going to be part of the game; but apparantly it isn't... Or might not be; but for all we know they might get it done by September and it'll be on the disc. So nobody knows what's up; not even them! R00fles!!!

If it's in patch, it's not part of the game I paid for hence it doesn't come when the game is released. Period. It needs to be on the beautiful disks not on some silly net. "The game is complete if the devs say it is." So, if they were to say the game would be shipped with just the toolset, it's a complete game? R00fles! Unless the DMC is part of the game on the actual disk where I can access it with no patch it's not part of the game. It's been labeled as 'bonus content' and NOT 'part of the release'. Game over.

Neither is being suckered in for another $50...

"Eventually the spell will wear off and you still have to contend with an unfriendly." On your terms though. Anyways, back on topic: My mother always said if you have nothing good to say don't say anything at all... I don't listen to my mon... so, let's just say, I'm no fan of DS1 so am no fan of DS2 by default.

Against warriors? I think not. Not if your mage is even half capable. And, if he isn't, he (or she even) shouldn't be a mage in the first place.

I agree. Illegal aliens should be terminated. If you want to live in a country come legally or don't come at all. Period.

"magic user may risk of friendly fire." Really? When casting mass charm? Ok then..

Tell that to Goliath....

Yeha; but to do it *well* it does....

10-30% make use, in some way, of the MP/toolset/DM stuff and since the DMC is used the elast I gave it a modest 15% total... Besdies, Obsidian surely doens't rank it as important as 25%... unlike BIO who knew what NWN series was about - the whole package including DMing ala pnp.

No, we get to play NWN 1.85 before Hades.