Volourn

L0L Heym, everyone, a crazy person claimed that FO1 and FO2 outsold DS and DS2 and is claiming it's fact! That's beyond ludicrous! L0L get over your arrogance. DS1&2 outsold FO1&FO2. This is pure fact, and only deluisional tools would deign to argue falsely otherwise. The Fo series was marginally successful ie. They made enough to be proitable enough to cotnie but the DS series were successfule nough to be big time hits capable of comepting against the MWs and NWNs of the world. L0LLIGAGZ!

"Again, I say that ID4 can never reach the acclaim or success of the Star Wars franchise. It's actually impossible at this point. " ID4 is played a lot of tv. Obviiously, it doesn't have the cross over or as genre defefining appeal as SW does but film vs film it is easy toa rgue that ID4 holds its own. Obviously, again, hard for anything to touch the entire SW phenomen which has crossed over successfully to books and games (not so successfully tv wise though). Then again, the creators of ID4 never had attention to hawk ID4 forever like a certain SW creator did with it since SW was always about selling toys to little kiddies. "ID4 isn't a franchise, so it would be unfair to compare it to the whole SW franchise, no?" This. ID4 was an action moved about fighting aliens in honour of an Amerikan holiday. Nothing more nothing less. That said, there has been talk about a potential sequel... P.S. ID4 is a betetr movie than ANY SW movies with better acting, writing, and actions. Not to mention much flaisher explosions. "Volourn claims facts that can't be proven" Sorry, dude, but the fact that DS1 and DS2 outsold FO1 and FO2 can and has been proven. It's undisputable and you only make yourself look silly trying to argue otherwise. The basis of this argument of course is the nonsense point some foolish person claimed that the DS fanbase is somehow magically smaller than the FO fanbase which is just plain bogus (not counting FO3 of course which set a whole new bar) but FO3's fanbase is basiclaly Bethesda's anyways and FO3's overall success is 100% because of Bethesda. If DS3 fails it's not ebcause the DS brand doesn't have any fans but ebcause Obsidian/SS didn't deliver the game gamers wanted. Period. DS has a built in potential audience that is very sizeable - mroe than the original two FO games. This is just pure fact.

"I am a fan of Heatley, he played hard the two seasons he was in San Jose, and I realize he was injured during the playoffs. But the one thing the Sharks lack now that they shored up the defense is speed, and Havlat gives them that. They have a fair amount of shooters to fill in for Heatley. Plus, it frees up 2.5 million in cap space, which lets them pick up some decent 3rd and 4th line guys." Lack of speed is not why they lost to the Canucks. Nor did I claim that SJ would somehow lose scoring. We all know the Sharks are going to be one of the best teams in the league. Swapping Heatley for Havlat won't change that. But, the trade doesn't make them better. The main point, hwoever, is why should players be expected to be 'loyal' when teams and fans are not? Heck, even Jagr is getting attacked by Pens and their fans for his 'disloyalty' for choosing Philly over Pittsburgh despite them throwing jagr in the trash a decade ago and slamming him over and over again. he owes them nothing. Did I say I loathe fans and teams? Because, i dio, and I keep getting more evidence why I should every single second.

Great. So.. what does your off topic fact about two movies have to do with DS3?

FACT: The first two DS games were far more successful than the first two FO games and they are also more recent. It's undisputable.

"Yea, and Fallout never had any mods / total conversions etc. come out... Oh wait they did have those and people are still making them." Who claimed otherwise? FACT: FO1 and FO2 didn't sell more than a million copies when released (they probably have now coutning the $3 GOG version). Outside of the habndful of hardcore fans, the public did not give a crap about the FO series until Betehsda made FO3 and it was Beth's fans that amde FO3 a hit. FACT: DS1 and DS2 were very successful games which sold millions of copies and were bonafide hits. To try to claim that FO3/FO3.5:LV had a huge built in fanbase and DS3 doesn't is just beyond silliness.

FO3 did not sell as well as did becuase of the old FO fanbase. It sold so well because of Bethesda's fanbase. FO's fanbase was not 'longlasting'. The hardecore FO fanboy on the net probably numbers 1000 if your lucky. DS fans supported it huge. Someone even used DS to recreate an Ultima game. Stop trying to claim that if DS3 fails it's DS1 and DS2's fualt. That's bogus.

Nonsense.

Bad trade by the Sharks. They've had their best playoffs with heatley the last two seasons despite him not putting up lots of points. The guy played witha broken hand for pete's sake. Thatb said, Havlat is a pretty good player as well - not Heatley ggood - but not garbage like what Ottawa got in the earlier trade so we all know SJ will still be one of the top teams. That said, this is the reason why I had no problem with Heatley demanding a trade when he felt unhappy in Ottawa. Teams have no loyalty to players - neither do fans. As soon as the Sharks felty getting rid of Heatley was best for them (ito) they did it with no hesitation depsite him working his butt off and being a team player iduring his time in Sharklan. The same thing happen in Philly with the two forwards they threw in the trash. Heatley was 'evil and selfish' for wanting to do right by himself but it is a-ok for the Sharks to do the same. This is why I lvoe it when players don't let teams, the league, and fans to bully them.

"DS isn't such a well-known and loved franchise" Simply not true. DS1 and DS2 were huge sellers and were very popular. A lot more successful than either FO1 and FO2 were to be sure but that didn't stop Betehsda from selling millions with FO3. " It also wasn't as strong an IP as something like Fallout." Kiddin' right? FO1 and FO2 sold elss than a mil each. DS and DS2 sold millions. To try to claim that DS series wasn't popular is just silliness. UIf DS3 fails it is not DS1 and DS2's fault.

"So do I, man. But this is a company we're talking about. They have to make money so they can make games at all. That means making crowd pleasers, not just art for us eggheads. " LV made a heck of a lot of money and sold a lot of copies and reviews were ehavily positive by both professionals and gamers. Not so much with DS 3 (or AP). "Well, it got boosted by Fallout 3." You are underselling the DS franchise which was/is very popualr and sold millions. A lot more than any FO game but FO3. If DS3 doesn't sell or isn't a 'people please'it's the fault of Obsidian not the franchise.

"I have also felt bad for you when I read their boards." I feel worse for me when reading these boards.

"It was never going to be a multi-million seller - for Obsidian it's a smaller title in terms of budget and scope, and out of all their licensed games this has the weakest franchise of all (completely separate from whether DS1/2 were good or not, it's not a particularly valuable franchise in this respect)." This is not true. The two earlier DS games sold millions. The DS is a valuable franchise - that's why SS and OBS picked it up. People don't pick up series that aren't valuable. DS3 most certainly was aimed to be a multi million seller.

"Your words are hurtful, but I realize you are just showing signs of anger displacement due to the bullying you have encountered. I hope you find happiness somewhere." R00fles!

Drury and Gomez destroyed themselves. 9 years... way too long.

"I happened across a conversation thread from the Codex with Volourn, and those folks are just mean to him." Are you really a tool? They're 'mean' to everybody. That's the whole point. Im am just as mean as anyone else. They actually are on my side time to time so get over it. I don't need an Obidin fanboy feeling sorry for me. In fact, I find this forum a lot more 'meaner' anyways and a lot more ignorant, bias, and foolish. The Codex is cool.

He's not worth $4mil. Even at jagr's advanced age, he's still a much better than Erhoff and Jagr is being paid $3.3mil. Erhoff is an average defenseman. He be lucky to be rated a top 100 D man. What a joke.

Whcih reminds me of another certain quote: "Heed your own advice."

"Random PR preople throwing a number doesn't count as a fact." EA is not 'random PR people'. EA, btw, unlike us, cannot lie. They could get into a lot of legalty rouble since they are publically traded with shareholders. "I don't think the line on DA2's success or lack thereof is all that relevant here. " True. Back to DS3... Xcgchartz are a joke so thankfully those can't be takens erious as that number they have is horribad.

Every Obsidian game has been finished. Whether or not you liked them is irrelevant.

RPG Codex is awesome. Not eprfect but awesome. You are allowed to have an opinion there unlike other places.

"Shipped != Sold Also most of those units that were "sold" were pre-orders, and of those over 60% were returned to GameStop in that first week. Perhaps you should... visit the DA2 forums on the BioWare Social Network before you further shove-foot-in-mouth. It's obvious now that you don't know what you are talking about. " L0L random number alert! "60%" R00fles! DA2 has sold 2mil+ copies and sold 1mil+ copies in the first week. This is fact. Deal with it. Your ignorance of how this all works is hilarious.

For a mainstream game from a mainstream publisher SS and a well known developer like Obsidian, and the 3rd game and a hugely popular series that has sold millions.. that is a very low number. DA2 sold over a mil in 1 week, and some were trying to claim it as a 'failure'. Come on, 162k in 1 week is fail. No way to spin doctor . Thankfully, vghcartz is a joke so these numbers mean nothing.

That's... insane... That has gotta to be the most insane deal I've ever heard .. in any league...

" BioWare/EA BOUGHT the initial high review scores of DA2, while Obsidian are an honest company and take what they get because they earned it." You must a comedian b/c that is hilarious! DA2 is a great game just a s good as DA1 and is better than DS3 most liekly from what i've been reading on these forums. DA2 = 8.5 DS3 Demo = 2 DS3 Proper = Not worth full pirce "DA2 was nearly as much good as in Obsidian games. Nearly..." Better than NWN2 OC, SOZ, AP, and DS. Not as good as MOTB 9friggin' awesome stuff). And, who knows about FO3.5:LV.