Volourn

"With DS Obs got to work on an IP that had no prominence at all." Why do people keep posting this nonsense? DS series has sold millions. This isn't some trashy series that has no fan base. It's fanbase is larger than FO series pre FO3. 100k (or the 300-400k that some are now randomly spouting to make themselves feel good) is just not acceptable for a mianstream game that took 2-3 years tod evelop with a well known brand name published by SS developed by the better known RPG dev houses. If ity's a failure for SS it's a more damaging failure for Obsidian because SS can handle losses a lot easier. But, still, the usual is occuring here - give accolades to Obsidian when things go wiell and bash the publisher and/or make excuses for poor little Obsidian (lol) when things don't go their way. DS3 - if the numbers are accurate - is a flop. Then again, these comments come from the people who claim because DA2 sold 2mil+, it was a bomb. HAHAHA! "Looks to me DS3 is about as successful as AP. " So... a bombg? Because Sega was very clear about how poor AP did - so much they didn't hesitate to publically trash its performance and put a squash on any Sega published (and since they own the IP IIRC that's a big oo) AP. "Did Obsidian have that level of responsibility for the project? I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that Obs was hired to make the game Square Enix wanted to make. Similar to how the Wheel of TIme project seems to planned." Obsidian is the devloper of DS3 just as theyw ere for their successful games. Why make excuses for them? They are just 'helping' 9whaetver that actually means) on WOT. Of course, they have a responsibilty for the success of the project. That's why they were hired. The same way anyone who is contracted to do a job has a responsibility to succeed at the project, Obsidian succeeded with FO3.5:LV and bombed with DS3. "In the end its all marketing and pr anyway. With enough marketing, a plate of cold poop would sell millions. " Nah. Plenty of games fail even with heavy marketing and PR. Don't throw out random nonsense.

"Why would DS3 be considered a failure for Obsidian? It wasn't their IP. They were hired to make a game that someone else wanted them to make the way someone else wanted them to make it. DS3 is not "Obsidian's game". They were told what to do and did it. The game appears to have been brought in on time and mostly bug-free. WHich is a big success for Obs in and of itself. If anything this success should be a good boost to their credentials as a for-hire developer of other people's IPs." Are you serious? That's like saying if BG1 had bombed, BIO would have been able to sip away happy as can be.What a lame cop out excuse. You do realzie that every single game Obsidian makes they wer e'hired' by somebody else. L0LZ If DS3 sold as low as the claim is, it s failure is a hit to Obsidian's credentials as a for hire devloper of others IPs. Bdeing 'brought in on time' and 'mostly bug free' is not enough. In fact, out of the three, a publuisher looking to hire a dev will prefer a dev that sells FO3.5 numbers but with its 'bugginess' than DS3's 'bug freeness' but totally bombing numbers. You asked Bethesda, Sega, and Squaresoft which one is most happy with Obsidian.... The answer is very telling.... I bet you have no problem giving Obsidian credit for NWN2, KOTOR2, or FO3.5:LV right? L0LZ "Looking at the competition (titles that started around the same time) it still did fairly well though" No. If the game actually sold only 100k sales, it's a flat out bomb. Plain, and simple. Main stream action rpg based on a multi million sellings eries published by SS and devloped by one of the most well known rpg developers cannot live on 100k sales in the year 2011. Period. If those sales are accurate, it means disaster.

"Volo Lexx has a valid point, we don't know how big the budget was." We do know that in 2011, main stream games like DS3 need to sell more than 100k units in the first month to succeed. The Obsidian staff budget - let alone SS's - over the 2-3 years of development is likely heavy. Throw in actualm development, marketing, and everything else and no way cna this game be considered a hit at 100k. Plus, suppsoedly accoridng to these forums, SS was looking for sales of 1mil. 100k is not 1mil. "DA2 was a commercial success, it was a massive failure in quality, it was a massive failure for fan expectation etc... etc... DS3 looks like its been a failed project, but I don't think Obsidian are idiots for paying the bills with a project like DS3." DA2 was not a failure in quality. It's just as good as DA1. that said, that's just opinion either way therefore menaingless. Let's not change the subject here. We're talking about finanical stuff and facts. "Obsidian have been alot more successful than Troika, that's not even worth discussing" It is worth discussing. Yes, Obsidian is more successful - afterall, Troika fail victim to the 3 strikes law. Obsidian is on their 2nd strike. Sega flat out said that AP was a bomb, and it seems that DS3 - a sequel to a multi million selling - series has semeingly done as poorly or even worse. I perosnally don't think obsidian is gonna fold anytime soon. They have some good will saved up due to their success with NWN2, KOTOR2 (kinda since LA wasn't exactly pleased with KOTOR2's performance), and espicially the mega hit FO3.5:LV. But, if you think DS3 doesn't hurt them don't be silly. Of course, that's assuming the 100k quote is accuirate.

"We can't really judge if 100k sold is a bad number, because we don't know how expensive that game was." Yes, we can. 100k sold in the first month of a new main stream release in the eyar 2011 is a bad number. It's not even debateable. IF the number is accurate it's a mega fail. A genuine bomb. "I get the feeling Obsidian haven't lost money - Square, well they may have." As the contracted developer, it's hard for Obsidian to 'lose' money on their games since the costs tend to be eaten by the publisher. But, it just means they're gonna have a harder time to convince other publishers to give them more jobs or any kind of decent deal. This can lead to even more cuts making things even ahrder for Obsidian to do and morec orners being cut which can lead to Obsidian's death. It's the same thing that happened to Troika. But, anyone trying to spin 100k sales as a positive are just plain delusional. Then again, the Obsidian fnaboys who claim 100k is a success for DS3 are likely the same peeps who claimed 2mil for DA2 meant it was a failure. L0LZ

"(I'm not seeing a lot of signs that say Obsidian has a lot of room in picking the projects they work on, unfortunately)." That's 100% their fault.

"Anyone who seriously thinks a game like DSIII would actually sell well needs to check a doctor. Whoever came up with the dumb idea to revive an irrelevant IP needs to get fired. *looks at Square-Enix* All this money and time could have been used for a new and interesting IP instead." Nonsense. DS series has sold millions of copies. if DS3 hasn't, it's not the Ip's fault. "So far it has fared well, besides its a good game." Nah, not really. Whetehr you (or I) personally think it's a good game is completely and utterly irrelevant.

And, I'm a heterosexual. Your point?

"I think it's a necessary step to making game consoles an important part of the home entertainment setup." Uh... this doesn't make any sense without real context since logistically, they already are a huge number of homes already vierw them as an 'important part' of the home entertainment setiup.

"Well, neither should the Lybians then, according to your logic." that's dumb logic. Just ebcause one groupm can't have freedom another group shouldn't hve it either? I guess we Kanadians should give up our freedom too since it's not fair we have it but North koreans don't have it. That's just... stupid.

NWN2 is their best game. MOTB is their best written campaign.

"Besides encouraging the change into D&D game instead of another RTS game, the contributions seems to be QA, Promotional material, much of the audio related stuff (sound direction, voice record/acting, music, effects etc.), various producers and an unspecified special thanks to 3 people (Chris Parked included)" So... basically what I've been saying all along.. and, basically, exactly what all publishers do.. right? Thank you for agreeing with me. "Feargus Urquhart is the boss of Obsidian as he was the boss of Black Isle/Interplay." He was the boss at BIS which was Interplay's RPG division. "As for the lawsuit, I don't care who sued whom. However, a contract had been signed by both BIS and BIO stating what needed to be done in what matter to what time. And when BIO did take too long, BIS sued. Also, as Gorth said BIS failed to produce royalty payments to Bioware. [i'm not sure if this was because of Herve Caen's involvement or not]." For starters, BIS couldn't sue anyone since theyw ere just a division of Interplay. And, it was BIO who sued Interplay after Interplay cried about stuff andn tried to steal money. BIO's case was obviously strong that Interplay gave up rights to a multi million selling franchise like NWN and all they got out if it prettyy much was the sue of an outdated engine to use on a too late sequel IWD2 that was rushed out the door which didn't exactly do as well as it could have. "I'm sure the only ones that got rich here were - the lawyers." I dunno. The docs seem to have gotten pretty rich. Interplay/BIS not so much hence the whole implosion by that company.m Seems, they were the losing side. R00fles! "I'm not claiming either that Obsidian are somehow responsible for Bioware's (past) succes; I'm just pointing out that BIS did help Ray and Greg (the doctors) to get started in the industry..." No. The docs (all 3 of them) a responsible for getting started, and making the right decision. All Interplay/BIS did was make a business decision to help themselves make money.. surely wans't to help out BIo b/c they somehow cared for them out of the goodness of their heart. No more than LA/Atari gave Obsidian 'help' out of the goodness of their heart. Stop trying to give credit or blame for someone's success to others. It's disgusting!

"Bio and BIS as well as Obs have had a very close relationship in the past, which is why Obs got both KoToR 2 and NWN 2 in all likihood. It's interesting how you like to downplay BIS and Bio's relationship during the BG days." BIo and FU do. Obther Obsioainites not so much outside of possibly Tayllor. BIS was the ublisher as part of Interplay. Read your BG series manual. The number of Obsidianites that play a major role - let alone any role - on the BG series is extremely small. And, JE and MCA had absolutely nothing to do with it so stop trying to give Obsidian credit for it. And, BIS gets credit that all publuishers get - for publishing it. Also, it should be noted that BIS and BIo were 'so close' that BIo sued Interplay to break the relationship when Interplay/BIS got butthurt that BIO was taking 'too long' with NWN. LMAO Again, FU gets credit and maybe Taylor does too if we knew what he helped out on outside of regular publisher stuff. Fu is kewl because it was his suggestion to turn Bg into a D&D game. Other BISers get crap credit 'cause they did nothing worth mentioning. I'm a very angry person - hence why I like the Fos so much. R00fles! OBs got NWN2 and KOTOR2 because of FU's relationship with the docs. That's it that's all. JE doesn't even like BIo let alone worked on any of their games. LMAO

He's too quiet. He needs to speak up more so MCA and FU don't get all the credit. I wouldn't be surprised if people think JE is an Obsidian 'founder' even thoguh he's not.

JE did not work on BIO games. MCA as well. they were too busy working on BIS games. FU, as head of BIS, did play a relatively huge role in BIO games but as the publisher. That's one guy. Like i said, less than 5 Obsidianites played any role in BIO games and outside of bug testing (which all publishers do)) only one Obsidianite I know of played an actual signiificant role in BIO games while under Interplay publishing - again, that's FU. So, don't make stuff up. Want proof? Look at the BG2 credits in the manual. Outside of INTERPLAY QA, only FU, and Chris Parker (is he with Obsidian) likely played relatviely major roles in the PUBLISHING part of BG2. BIS itself has 7 names listed. interplay itself has a bunch mostly for QA,, VOs, & sound which makes sense since that tend to be up to the publisher. So, trying to claim that Obsidian is repsonsible for BG series' awesomeness (or horribleness if you hated it) is just disingenious, a lie, or plain old fashion ignorance. The only guy not from BIO who deserves any real cedit is FU since he's the one who actually played a real role. That's one guy. ONE GUY. Yet, you try to give Obsidian credit for Bg series? LMAO JE and MCA had NOTHING to do with it. NOTHING.

MAD starring Billy Zane. Weird little horror zombie movie. Zane does a great job as I've never seen him in a role this. Humour is offbeat but hit or miss. 7/10

"Well, as long as we are doing this, I'll toss in a Few Obs. games too, since they helped with some of the original Bio games as BI, and I see them as a continuation of such..." OBS had nothing to do with original BIO games. They didn't even exist. And, BIS was just the publisher as part of Interplay. And, the number of current Obsidianites who used to be BISers whoi actually helped with the games probably numbers less than 5, and that's being generous. Stop trying to give them more credit they deserve. Publisher does not equal developer. They did a good making multiple copies of BG series, MDK2, and SS and shipping them to stores. L0L "I don't understand why anyone could put DA2 on their top 10s." Because, thankfully, not every one is Gorgon and theyn don't think like Gorgon and aren't silly like Gorgon.

"1. baldurs gate1/2 2. mass effect 2 3. dragon age 4. mass effect 5. dragon age 2 6. kotor 7. nwn 8. jade empire" 1. NWN1:TP 2. BG2 3. DA & ME series 4. JE 5. HOTU 8. NWN OC 9. KOTOR 10. BG1 11. SOU Also, L0L @ DLC I wodner where all the peeps are who claimed that DA2's 'lack' of DLCs 'proved' that this 2million + selling game was a 'failure'. All silent now. R00fles!

DA2 was just as if not more tataical than DA1. *shrug*

"The records were carefully clarified to avoid any ambiguity. Namco Bandai have options when choosing the priority of our distributor?s version of the Xbox 360. It could use, but not taken advantage of certain preferences. In this situation, we chose the offer that THQ made us." Um.. That sound ambigious to me. I hope the wording in the contract is clearer.L0LZ

Still beats Obsidian forums' 99%/1% trash/awesome ratio.

"Glad you asked. It's because Britain's former colonies include the USA, India, Canada, South Africa and Australia. I can't help feeling your independence was a wee bit premature. " Kanada is still a British colony. They can have the 'legal right' to abuse a power to decide who our PM is no matter what Kanadians vote. "I'm Jewish, by the way" Is this supposed to impress or initmidate us into agreeing with what you say - even if it's complete nonsense? Jew or not, you are still plainly wrong. The briths Empire was the veryd efintion of evil just like the Nazis. Just because the BE didn't specifically target jews - they preferred Africans and Indians for target practice - doesn't make them any less evil and scummy. Stiop being a bigot. I would thinka jew would udnerstand what bigotry does.

And, the Sharks will reach the Conference Finals most like before fizzling unless Thornton is their best player and their goalie steals the series. *shrug*

Stop sucking up to me. If you post over there you sucking up here won't have me show you any mercy. I actually just found out that I have 31 personal victories over there along with 0 losses. That's impressive! As for being hated or repsected.. it should be pointed out even when I got banned by a certain drama inducing crybaby people 9well a sizeable number) demanded I'd be reinstated and some even got themselves banned over it. HAHA! That's rela power. Anyways, enough of this Volournc rap, it's about the Codex is cool. Only people who can't handle strongly voice opinions dislike it.

The onlym thing 'borked' about DD is that it is simply a crappy game.

"Although the brits could have easily ended the War of Independance if their commanders had pushed the matter early on rather than kept trying to find peaceful solutions. " Excuses Amerika makes all the time in regards to wars that didn't go there way. ie. The US dominated the Vietnam wars if you look at pure military might but Amerika as a country didn't have the political will to push through just as with British. Bottom line is the settlers wanted their freedom more than the British wanted to control them in the end. "Comparing the British Empire, even warts and all, with the Nazis is idiotic." You British Empire apologists are hilarious. Are you aware of the evils the BE inflicted on a huge part of the world during their time as THE superpower? Stop making excuses for them like they are some goody two shoes. You are just as bad the people who want to reinvent the indians into some type of passive peace loving hippy passivist group who were anti violence. L0L