Volourn

"Are you really comparing the latest game of a developer to their decade old first try at RPG's?" YTou are. Youa re claiming their older games are better when that simply isn't true. "If the game wasn't better than BG1 that would be grounds for hara-kiri." L0L But, you claim DA2 is their worst game ever .. now, youa re actually claiming DA2 is better thasn BG1. So, which is it? LMAO "For the sake of other forum members I won't bring BGII, ToB and the series as a whole into this discussion and see how their late offerings compare to it. That would be really pointless as everyone's position on the issue is well known." BG2 has many things that aren't done as well as BIO's newer games. IIRC, TOB was actually lambasted by many people as well. "I hold that the only thing Bioware has released that's really fresh and original (up to a point) since the BG series are the Mass Effect games. Other games, like Jade Empire and Dragon Age are too flawed or derivative to consider." JE, ME, and DA are ALL more frshs and original than the BG series. ALL OF THEM. BG is veryd eriative and flawed. "KOTOR sucks. It sucked then, it sucks now. But its SW so no one cares and they play it anyway." It doesn't suck as much as BG does. But, you think people play it just because it's sSW? That's baloney. people play it b/c they like.

Yup. And, it was awesome.

Drowsy, it be easier on you if you just posted the following on every page of a BIO trhead: "BIo sucks now!" People say I'm repetitive, but you are probably the most repettive guy on the baord except for maybe one other poster. And, before youc ry about me being a BIO fnaboy, I should let you know this fanboy is such a fnaboy he rushed out and preorder and have been playing KOTOR MMO nonstop since release... oh yeah, no I haven't... my bad. The BIO games of today are, by and alrge, vastly superior to their earlier games. BG1 is a friggin' joke. SS2, and MDK2 are patehtic. BG2 is awesome and is the only old game that is stilkl good but even then is misisng out on awesome stuff. KOTOR is as overrated as BG1. DA2 > BG1 No contest. Better characters, better writing, better story, better graphics, better music, better combat, better character system, plainly better anything.

One guy in a company of hundreds is not enough -espicially when the big wigs who make the major final decisions are still there in power. The big talk was a multitude of long time developers leaving not just one guy. Come talk to me when the docs leave BIO. That would be a big deal. Again, turnover hasppens allt he time. Obsidian has seen turnover too but as long as the owners who make the final decisions - ie FU, Avellone et al. - are still at Obsidian and in control, no big deal.

Diablo 1 is just as good on console as it is on PC. Plays no different.

DA2 is just as good as DA1. As for turnover, all I see is 'specualtion' and not fact. Either way, turnover always occurs. Not one company doesn't see turnover. "I remember one guy" l0lz

"I recently read that long-term bioware employees have been resigning after the direction games like ME2 and DA2 have gone in." Like who? "I'm just speculating" I see. 'Nough said.

"Ranged combat on consoles will either be piss easy or an absolute nightmare to aim." This doesn't make a lick fo sense since plenty of console games have awesome shooting/aiming for ranged combat. Your logic is poor. "So Blizzard is finally making the transition?" FINALLY? They made the 'transistion' way back with Diablo 1. And, it was a lot more fun on console than on PC.

Trust me, if I was Herve, I would have made no deal, and I would have battled to the (bitter) end. Then again, BG3 and FO3 would have been made at Interplay now would I have ogone all stupid with BIO over NWN losing that prime seller. R00fles!

"Actually Interplay had very little standing in the case since the very beginning, and managed to survive in the case so far only due to Bethesda's lawyers utter incompetence." Only if you believe Betehsda's nonsense which, obviiously, the courts were not buying into. "That assumes some fundamental level of competency on the part of interplay." Interplay's comptency is irrelevant. This is simply a case of the side with more $ getting what they wanty no matter what the actual facts are. Interplay likely didn't have the funds to go any longer. Simple as that. "I certainly wouldn't want Interplay touching the IP that I paid good money for." 1. It was Interplay's Ip to begin, and when they sold the rights they had the right to keep certain things as part of negotiations. Afterall, Interplay created FO. 2. I certainly wouldn't want Betehada to touch my IP. It says a lot that Obsidian - those people whoc reated crasp like DS3 and AP - made a much better FO3 than Betehasda did. 3. Interplay 'touching' the Ip was irreleavnt since both new Fos made millions and Interplay has been 'touching' the IP for a decade + sicne, again, interplay created it. Beteahds is justs cumbags who used money to bully, intimidate, and threaten tog et what they want and were more active (because they had money) tof roce fed their propaganda abotut ehris die down people's throats. The judge wasn't buying it, though. INTERPLAY > BETEHSDA

Majors windle? He got screwed? He should ahve pushed for me as he was in good standinjg to actually win the court case, and a FO MMO is sure to make way more than 2mil. Way more. The swindlers here are the peices ofc rap known as Betehsda who used intimiation, expensive lawyers, and deeper projects to push the little guy around when theyw er ein the wrong. DISGUSTING!!! p.s. That article reeks of Betehsda bias. Scumbags of the highest order!

"The real trick in BW games is when you unwittingly become gay. Don't blink or you might miss it. And then you'll be struck wondering why Jabba is looking at you like that." I know you are doing it on purpose (the fact you are Boo explains everything) but you can't 'accidentally' become gay in BIO games or in RL. If youa re gay justa dmit it. Nothing to be ashamed about in 2012.

"game of a tasteless, juvenile tv show." You mkake it sound awesome and I don't really watch SP.

"Swallowed, hook, line and sinker. When will you turn 15? " Eh. I don't mind being trolled. I find it amusing that you felt me worthy enough to troll. L0LZ "And this was such a fun thread before you guys had to start measuring handbags." I agree. But blame the douche who did the trolling.

"Renegade is Red Paragon is Blue Assuming Direct Control This Hurts You" R00fles!

NHL 12, NWN1, FO2, FO:LV, and RT.

I ain't the company who decided to use the NWN name to pimp my MMO am I? NWN does not need my help to be remembered or have its influence felt or be the closest thing to pnp in CRPG history. R00fles!

"Bioware is making C&C Generals 2," No, they aren't. Some toher comapny is after having their name changed. L0LZ

Where's the proof? All I see is a bunch of random killings in BG1 with mostly lame attempts at humour thrown with a few genuine chuckles once in the blue moon. Not to mention, it's BG1 being discussed currently in this thread not BG2. Also, hilarious, that you hate and annoyed by me so much you felt the need to troll me in a thread I hadn't even posted in. Now, you gone to try to ruin a rather harmles thread and besmirhed the OP with your pathetic trolling. R00fles!

ERROR! ERROR! ERROR!

"No you don't, no one remembers the random dungeon generator with introductory scenario NWN anymore." You seem to remember it.

Finally, you admit you are wrong. Thank you for your cooperation. Now, to be fair, I will make my top 10 games that I think fit your criteria of the following: "The point of this list was IMO the CRPGs that made strides in closing the gap between PnP and CRPGs in a significant way. The best CRPGs that emulated and did justice to its table top roots on the PC. It isn't necessarily a list of simply the best CRPG's as the only criteria. But what CRPG's paid homage to its roots and came close on some level of feeling like a PnP game." I will also keep in mind your intiial goal of 'impact on CRPG industry'. *RU* Controversey! GB games (most notebaly POR1) - they didn't make top 10? Why despite ahving upwards of ten titles and being the 'original DND' CRPG series? Simple. These classics run of gamut of quality and their impact on the industry is minature comapred to their modern counterparts like BG. Modern gamers simply don't give a crap about. hHeck, people stopped caring about them even as the last few were crapped out by SSI. L0L Good for their time but so passe and past their prime. 10. M&M series - the 'ol classic of create your party and explore at your liesure but still an overarching story in the background that pushes the campaign forward. 9. DA - A huge following that put BIO even higher than the stratosphere being the first BIO game to sell 4mil+ copies. The different openings pushed multiple opening sceneraios to the forefront even if it wasn't the first game to try them. But sicne the agrument cna be made it's just BIO's personal version of the BGs it loses something. It is also ranked low as BIo crapped the bed with the lacklustre ie. horrible toolset that they threw in simply as an obligiation for NWN fanboy crybabies. 8. NWN2 - It definitely had the modding tools and a DMC that makes it closer to pnp than majority of CRPGs so it gets a palce but being such a huge step back from its predecccesor keeps it on the low end. 7. Ultima - Often considered 'the grandfather of rpgs', and for good reason. Definitely one of the first to actually have morality play a role in the game. 6. FF series - Its impact of the CRPG industry simply can't be ignored. the games are of mixed quality but the impact is felt. i say this despite not playing any since FFX. 5. MW - Why pick MW over other ES games? Easy. Pre MW - the ES/Bethesda were successful but not really epickly so as MW truly put them on the map of gaming conciousness. Oblivion + Skyrim just continues that and doesn't really bring anything 'new'. 4. TOEE - Despite not being a perfect rendition, TOEE's is probably the closest CRPG to faithfully rerceate DnD pnp rules and whatever flaws it may have that can't be taken away from it. Not to mention the fact that it is literally based on one of the most famous of pnp DnD modules says enough said. 3. BG series - Before BG, DnD crpgs were simply dying. After the BGs and their fellow engine counterparts the IWD series and PST multiple games came along to ride the wave.So successful were thiss eries that its developer was able to literally throw the publisher to the curb and alugh in their face and still get their next game published. How many developers wish they could do the same? BG's influence is still a heavy influence on both BIO and non BIO games alike. 2. FO - FO's legendary C&C is unforgettable despite the fact the early ones werenever really big sellers. However, its impact has been felt and obviously holds a lot of influence due to the existence of sequels, and offshoots plus more thana few games have borrowed off it. And, since its game system heavily copies a pnp system also helps. The uper sales of the last two in the series only help its case. 1. NWN1 - Whatever one may think of its OC quality, it's ahrd to question NWN's meeting the criteria for this list. Impact? BIo's most successful game until the release of their 'modern' titles like DA and ME2. The game where they were to overpower their former publisher Interplay/BIS, and wrest control of NWN from and get Atari to publish it. Impact where they made the toolset/modding tools a part of the main package and not just a random useless afterthought? A DMC were you cna literally have DM run campaigns on the fly with actual PC parties ala pnp? No game comes even close to this.How about being one of the first games to have official 'premium' modules available for download as a precursor for the current DLC craze? No matter how you slice it, NWN fits the bill. The DMC and the ability to have a real campaign run exactly as you would in pnp makes it a surefire winner here despite the merely average OC. I win.

"Put on the breaks. You have consistently said TO ME, in THIS FORUM the opposite I do not know how many times. That NWN1 was superior to NWN2 writing (and most other ways)wise. Do I need to dig up the quotes and re-post them? If you had a change of heart glad to see you came around. But don't try to inply you have always held that stance. That is disingenuous at least if not outright lying at worst." The fact youa ccuse anyone of lying is hilaiorus when your top 10 list is a lie. "Actually it shows me how much of a idiot the majority of module makers were that came from NWN1. They complained because they wanted the dumbed down, a 8 yr old can make a module tools that came with NWN1. Even though in the NWN1 forums they complained they wanted more power to do this and that. Well they got said power. But you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't have super dumbed down tools AND all the added functions they were screaming for. As they say be careful what you wish for.. And the 20% or so of the makers who stuck with it learned the tools made some amazing things with it. In fact I said this was going to happen when I ran nwn2news. I said in a op ed the majority of nwn1 module makers were not going to survive and port over to nwn2 as the tools will be above their head due to all the added functions (that ironically they requested). So it really wasn't a surprise when that is exactly what happened." LMAO earlier you were bragging that YOU were part of the majority and I was simply a minority torublemaker trolling just to be 'different'. Now, that the majority dfisagrees with you theya r ejust morans? HAHAHAHA! The NWN2 toolset/DMC/et.c suck plain and simple. And, nothing worthwhile was masde with it and NWN1's mods and sueage are much more avried and superior to the NWN2 modding scene by far. It's just plain superior to the joke that is the NWN2 toolset/dmc. FACT "You buy a car. A awesome car that it epitomizes of what a car should be and even makes you breakfast in the morning. However you can't go more then a block from your house without it breaking down. Does it really matter what the bells and whistles or how awesome the car is if it can't even do it's most basic function consistently? Do you think said car is going to get on any top 10 lists beyond a 'failed potential' list? Exactly." If the list is 'closest to feeling like pnp' absolutely TOEE deserves to be on it. If the list is 'buggiest' game definiterly. If the list is 'most stable' or 'my top 10 favorite games' than hell no. R00fles!

I didn't even play 10 games in 2011 - at least games that were mad ein 2011. Nice list. Out of your top 10, I played exactly one of them. Here's my top 10 games that i played this year (not enccessarily ones that came out this year) 1. NHL 12 2. FO:NV 3. DA2 4. M&M6 5. M&M7 6. FO1 7. BG1 8. M&M3 I didn't play much of anything else (NHL 12 takes too much of my game time) and the others I played were simply crap.

I always have mixed feelings. As a Kanandian I like it when a team 'representing' me does well. But, Kanadians and Kanada are so arrogant and bigoted at times espicially when it comes to hockey I cna't help but smile when we lose just to remind Kanandians we are not owed anything.