Volourn

"also, just a thought: skyrim seems to have really opened new frontiers of how much money can be made with the epic single player sandbox rpg. i wonder if other companies are going to start making similar games now, or if they'll just stick to churning out shooters." How so? Wousdln't the other very successful ES games have done that already? Or FO3? Or FO:LV? All of those games have sold millions (wether ones likes them or not) som what makes you think skyrim has opened 'new frontiers'? Skyrim is just Bethesda continuing in their very successful (and large) 'niche'. P.S. SR like the other ES games are more action rpgs than full rpgs. That's not nbegative that's just the way it since plenty of good action rpgs like FO:LV out there.

Just entered the outskirts of Vegas. Despite some flaws, this might be Obsidian's best game to date and has stopped their cold streak.

Eh. It's not the first story to go that route, and has done so in many different forms of entetrainment. There are biooks, movies, tv shows, and the like who have gone down that path. It's not lame just ebcause, it depends on how it is approached.

"I'm not seeing any publisher interested in the idea of another party RTwP RPG though, much less a turn-based one." That's not true. Then again, Obsidian's style is not turn based anyways. Never has been. NWN2 was RTWP as was KOTOR and they are two of the three successful Obsidian games. Go figure.

What does that prove? Nothing. DA2 is a sequel. Sequels don't get the love. BG2 is astly superior to BG1 in every way but BG1 gets credit ebcause it came first. Bottom line is DA2 > BG1 + KOTOR No contest.

"However...when you stated the witcher was as successful due to Bio's name...I shook my head in pure wonder and thought...what are you SMOKING. I still know no connection between the Witcher and Bio...in fact I first heard of The Witcher from PCgamer and my first exposure to gameplay was a Demo off of one of their discs which had the Witcher on it. Unless somehow Bio owns and publishes PCgamer...I'm thinking you've lost it on that one. " Uses BIO's engine. Was heavily hyped oin the BIO boards including having Witcher devs which was heavily mentioned in the reviews. No way does the Witcher get the pimping and the press it got without having BIO's name attached. Heck, BIO's name is right on the box. I know for a fact I'd likely never would have ehard of The Twicther if it weren't for BIO. And, for that, I'm still mad at BIO, because TW is one of the worst purchases I've ever made. Overrated piece of crap. I cna't beleive I was actually looking forward to it. "It was terrible. It's the first BioWare title I will never purchase or ever play." L0LZ "note: DA2 wasnt terrible, it just wasn't worth $60" DA2 is awesome. And, it's way ebtter than trash like BG1 and KOTOR.

"because Obsidian is not that big a company." Pretty good sidze for an independnet developing company with 100+ employees. "I don't know why Obsidian games don't sell that well," Obsidian games do sell. NWN2, KOTOR2, and FO:LV have sold very well. AP and DS3 have not. The differences? The first 3 are all good games. The other two are not. "Sales numbers for DS3 are disappointing, but not the worst IMO." Nobody has claimed they're the worst sales figures ever. "I think Obsidian can survive." Nobody's claimed they couldn't. "I also think this hasn't hurt Obsidian, because they are still recruiting people." They have also ****canned people, and others have quit. Nature of the business.

"You look at ME sales and DA sales and you see a huge gap." ME2 and DA sold aboutt he same copies. It shoukldn't be a complete surprise that BG1, BG2, NWN, and KOTOR all sold 2.5-3mil copies. Seems like a solid fanbase to me. Only JE didn't quite reach that 2mil plateau (1.5-2mil). then ME2 sold about 3mil. Then off of that DA sold 4mil+ as did ME2. DA2 sold 2mil+ in the first month alone - something BIo's earlier RPGs did not. This is based on BIO's brand name. ME series and DA series are two rather different games yet they basically sold abotut he same. BIO is a recognizable brand. It's funny that you are arguing that BIO isn't a popular brand yet the common complaint from the anti BIO contingent is that BIO can get 'away with crap' and still sell. "You look at RDR or LA Noire sales and you see that sales are close in terms of number. There are tons people willing to pass from a Western shooter to a Noire adventure because it's a Rockstar game. The same is not true for Bioware games." BIO games tend to sell in the same range. Where are you getting otherwise? "And it's not the same effect of popular brands developing a new IP." How do you think ME and DA brands got recognization - because it was BIO developing it. Some rinky dinky dev surely wouldn't have got them to sell that many. Even The Witcher was as successful as it was due to its tie in with the BIO name. BIO is a popular branmd with a huge audience. EA didn';t pay a billion+ for a company name that wasn't popular. It's also why EA is going out of their way to make as many BIO x divisions as possible because they believe the BIO name sells games. And, the history of the past 10+ years proves it. Over and over and over.

"It's funny, considering that the "openness" was a fairly big element in BG1 -" And, they got slammed for it on the BG boards. "But as DA2 sales seems to show, if the reception of one of their title is controversial, it won't sell that much just because it's developed by Bioware. 2+ million copies and most were DA:O fans. That's the distinction I'm trying to make. Bioware have fans of their singular franchises. Not "Bioware" fans in the same way as Valve or Blizzard does." That's ridiculous. People but DA1 because of the BIO brand. The 2mil+ tyhat bought DA2 were also fans of BIO. BIO may not have the fanbase of Valve or Blizzard but they surely have a rather large one and have had one since BG. The fact you buy multiple BIO games tells me you are one. "So, maybe it's just me," It's justb you. If we are going to use perosnal anedotes to prove a point I'm gonna argue that neither Valve or Blizzard don't have a fanbase as I don't buy games just because their names are on the boxes. Heck, i tend to not buy their games. No Diablo 2 or WOW for me and I only rented Diablo 1 on the console way back when. I guess they don't have a fanbase either, right? " but the new franchise won't sell because there is a Bioware Dublin logo on the box," It will sell because of the BIO brand. JE sold 1.5-2mil copies based solely on the BIO name. DA, and ME are both hits because of the BIO brand. NWN sold on the BIO brand 9don't say D&D brand because the majority of D&D games do not sell that well: see POR2, IWD2, and TOEE all released about the same time). What was the big difference between the four - BIo was by far the most popular of those 3 companies). "But as it is now, I believe that Bioware may have popular games but it's not a popular brand." BIO has popular games because they are a popualr brand. They don't need to sell as much as another company to have a popular brand. Plenty of successful and popular brands (in movies, music, tv, and books) are popular brands without being the top seller - that's what niches are.

"Fake Edit: The number generally (outside of this place and a very few others) isn't badly recived at all. If you visit the neogaf link you'll see that nearly all comments about the number was positive. Considering how Neogaf recieved that game they would have just loved the oppertunity to go Boooomb on it." Sorry dude, but in this day and age, a game like DS3 nbot selling a mil+ copies within the first month is very suspect. Even if DS3 was cheap to produce comapred to bigger titles, it was still not cheap to make.. 820K is just not good enough for a mainstream game published by SS and devloped by one of the supposed 'leading' RPG developers. If you are leading anything you better sell millions of copies or you ain't leading jack.

"Bio's never done action well," They've done action awesomely well. Both JE and ME are both awesome action rpgs. "honey, volo went bat %$#@ insane around 2004... It's been pretty the same since then." You guys need to stop trollinga dn flaming and stick with topic.

"this turns out to be true, BioWare is truly dead. " L0L Inconsistent in soemthing like this doesn't mean their dead. Theya re in fine shape. "So much for the "big, branching story spanning three games," eh?" ME series has moe C&C and mroe rpging than the overrated BG and BG2 9great game but not great in C&C department). This silliness is disspaointing but end of the world and certainly not the end of BIO.

" I mean, no one buy a game because it has the "Bioware" logo. " You kididn' right? While BIO isn't on the same level as those companies when it comes to populairty to unilaterlaly claim that NOBODY buys gams because of the BIO logo is beyond silly. I'd wager BIO has quite a few (mil+) fans who buy pretty much anything with their name on the box - including those who tend to be highly critical of them. "The Bioware name has value because of the games associated with it" The BIO name has value because of the company's success which makes those games associated with ti more inetresting buys simply based on the fact that theya re BIO games. FACT: I never played the other SW MMO. Never care for it for it all. I'm actually interested in the KOTOR MMO because it is BIO. I don't buy SW games yet I purchased KOTOR. These games have value because theya re BIO games. "action RPG-light" BG is BIO's most light RPG title ever. No coincidence it was their first. "This is clearly going to be an automotive restoration RPG. That car needs to be put back together!" L0LLIGAGZ!

Protect the brand from what? I didn't know it was under attacked. TOR and ME3 will be. The only quetsion with TOR is its long term success and ME3 will have its 2mil+ sales. No worries there.

Borg rule but the necrons are boring. The Reapers are better than the necrons. No contest.

"One of the few RPG makers in America? As in there are at least 2 more?" Like them or not but BIO (I like) and Bethesda )I hate) are both RPG developers. Then again, this isa forum who claims Obsidian is full RPG despiute their last 3 games all being action rpgs (AP, DS3, & FO:LV). Quality is irrelevant to the discussion. "The reviewer knew PB is German and CDPR is Polish right?" Also famous for their action rpgs titles and CDPR is as horrible as Betehsda. PB is alright. Barely.

Not even a million. That's got to be a dissapointing fo a company desperately trying to be relevant in the main stremas amrket - espicially consideirng that FO:LV sold 4-5mil copies. Then again, FO:LV is a much better overall game than the last two Obsidian games. 820k is a fail no matter hwo it is spinned,. Even if it ends up with a minimal profit, SS will likely see it as a failure since the goal for companies is not to somply surive game to game but to propser so you can handle flat out bombs.

So.. you don't believe in expanding your base? You ar eno busienss man. Then again, you probably thought BIO wa sillogical when they made their first game instead of sticking with medeical software. Then again, you probably thought BIO was nuts when they made their first RPG instead of action game. Then again, you probably thought BIO was pyscho when they started working on the NWN MP-TOOLSET-MODULE model. Then again, you probably though BIO went insane when theyd ecided to branch out to a full MMO. R00fles!

It's like magic that the Rangers have started to win when Avery isa round the team. Coincidence? Many will claim it to be so but I have my doubts. Avery > Torturechips

NWN NHL 12 FO:LV

"BioWare is not an RPG exclusive shop." That deopends which BIO you are speaking about. BIO EDM, BIO MTL, BIO TEX, BIO x. The 'BIO doesn't make rpg contigent aside' BIO EDM is still rpg focused. As for the pic, kinda looks post new age FOish. FO: TORONTO? R00fles!

"@Vol: grow a sense of humor" Be funny then I will laugh.

BIO's done plenty of 'dark'. Then again, people's defintion of dark often has nom logic behind it and they mistake 'cool' for 'dark'.

"Well get ready for the make up sex, whether you want it or not." Not one BIO roamnce ever was forced on the PC. I doubt ME3 will be any different. Why make stupid stfuf up?

Kreia is a liar anyways. Not liek you can trust anything that hag says.