Darth Somethingorother

You do know that Luke lets Vader live, right? Anyways; both Revan and Vader did a lot of good before they were turned to the Dark side, probably saved at least as many lives and species as they extinguished- should the good deeds count for nothing then? Wouldn't you agree that that's kinda.... darkside thinking? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes I know dumbass Luke lets him live. Yes, they may have done good but they should be punished for the evil they did. So, I guess from your thinking if someone murdered someone else and then saved another person's life that they shouldn't be punished in some way or form? (P.S. Remember, there is a very big difference between killing and murdering) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Revan and Vader were human. Human's make mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes. I'm saying that everyone has the right to a fair trial- a second chance. Don't you agree? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Depends how big the mistake is. Lets see, Vader wiped an entire form of life (Prince Xizor being the last to die), Revan. He/she decieves a clan to let him go into the temple and be able to use the Star Forge (and a second time if he/she becomes dark again). And also if dark again kills the wookie, Mision, and possibly Carth. (though seeing as how Carth isn't in TSL when you make Revan a dark male I guess he hunts him down and eventually kills him) I say those are some pretty big mistakes to let them go by without any kind of punishment. If you give them a second chance they should at least be harshly punished. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Vader killed Xisor. The last of his kind, true... but did he wipe out the entire species single handedly? No. He finished one life. To counter that, he's saved Obi- Wan's countless times, as well as helping save Naboo, and the enslavememt and therefore possible extermination of two whole species (though i wouldn't have minded the gungans). Revan restored justice to Taris before he fell. He also saved the Galaxy from what could possibly have been a terrible suffering under the Madalorians. KotOR II hints that even his atrocities during the Jedi Civil War might even have ultimately been for a greater good. The Universe, contrary to GL, isn't black and white. I agree that punishment should factor in, but isn't the punishment of knowing what you've done, and having to life with that enough, if you've been redeemed? "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

But we can't say that the council didn't sense good in Revan, because that hasn't been written yet. As for the Malak and Kavar scenario, I thought that (having been beating by a LS Revan) Malak showed signs of there "still being good in him". Fair point to you though.

You do know that Luke lets Vader live, right? Anyways; both Revan and Vader did a lot of good before they were turned to the Dark side, probably saved at least as many lives and species as they extinguished- should the good deeds count for nothing then? Wouldn't you agree that that's kinda.... darkside thinking? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes I know dumbass Luke lets him live. Yes, they may have done good but they should be punished for the evil they did. So, I guess from your thinking if someone murdered someone else and then saved another person's life that they shouldn't be punished in some way or form? (P.S. Remember, there is a very big difference between killing and murdering) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There's no reason to be rude, it wasn't exactly obvious from the wording of your post. As we say here in Liverpool, "iight, iight, calm down". Revan and Vader were human. Human's make mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes. I'm saying that everyone has the right to a fair trial- a second chance. Don't you agree?

You do know that Luke lets Vader live, right? Anyways; both Revan and Vader did a lot of good before they were turned to the Dark side, probably saved at least as many lives and species as they extinguished- should the good deeds count for nothing then? Wouldn't you agree that that's kinda.... darkside thinking?

You've hit the nail on the head there, though; before KotOR II came out we were all pretty damn happy with the idea opf affecting people's light/dark alighnment (the lack of which was something that bugged me with KotOR I). Now we've seen that happen, gamers have picked a fault in it- that their attitudes don't change. That can be fixed in another game. Isn't this how gaming evolves; trail and error?

Did they wipe his/ her memory? Wasn't that done by what happened to Revan on his/ her flagship? And even so, did they manipulate him, or merely give him the chance to see the light? You seem quick to forget that Revan remembered much about his/ her past life, especially after KotOR, so how could the Council possibly have been sure he/ she wouldn't have remembered sooner... and tured back to the Dark Side? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, if one wants Revan to remember the location of the Star Forge it wouldn't make sense to wipe his/her entire memory. Therefore it likely didn't happen. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So... they had no way of controlling Revan, as they didn't entirely wipe Revan's memory, so Revan could have gone back at any time (and if you paly the game such, this is exactly what happens). So were they manipulating him/ her, or giving Revan another chance? @ edu 11; But the Jedi, as Kreia points out, didn't nescessarily wipe Revan's personality, merely strip away the corruption, allowing the true Revan to shine through again. The Council never "blinded him to the light" they never said "be light side, or else" basically, as was one of the selling points of the game, Revan still had the choice.

Did they wipe his/ her memory? Wasn't that done by what happened to Revan on his/ her flagship? And even so, did they manipulate him, or merely give him the chance to see the light? You seem quick to forget that Revan remembered much about his/ her past life, especially after KotOR, so how could the Council possibly have been sure he/ she wouldn't have remembered sooner... and tured back to the Dark Side? Did they even have any real choice? Edit: to Darth Flatus; they only expected a duel to the death becuause they didn't expect him to be disarmed. Tell me, if you had a person's life in your hands, would you kill him, just because you could? Could you look into his eyes, then see the light taken from them by your own hand? Would it even be right to end someone's chance for redemption, just because you think them unfit to live? What would you have done to Vader? Just curious.

Tell that to Mace Windu. This is a good example for this "prisoner killing" issue. In consequence of some opinions here Anakin would have acted like an ideal Jedi and Windu is the evil Sith... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Windu was using Vapaad to channel the Dark side, so it's not too great a leap to make to see that he was being effected by his darker emotions in the heat of battle. Anakin, as a good Jedi, should have made him see that he was about to kill an un-armed opponent- and realise the consequences of this action, rather than do what he did, from a Jedi pov.

That could be taken sooooooo the wrong way by certain sick minded individuals (not me, of course, you understand )

I always thought they modelled Zaalbar on me... But character wise I'm more like Kreia. Or am I? Does it matter? Of Course it does! <jokes> actually, seriousely I am a bit like her, but only in the grumpy old battleaxe with a love of teaching who mildly dislikes everyone kinda way .

Maybe it opens up some dialogues with T3, like there were in KOTOR 1? Dunno. I never really use him either :"> UNESCESSARY ADDENDUM: Poor HK-47.

Just back-tracking a bit, about Darth Traya and the Madalorian War; Sorry to go back to that, because its always puzzled me, and as it was brought up earlier, I thought I'd pose the question. was easily a greater master of betrayals than Malak. The art of betrayal is to time it so as to get yourself in the best possible position for you. This requires forethought. In looking for the Star Maps and defying the Jedi Council, he wasn't so much betraying the Jedi as just following Revan. Like a "bitch" as some people would have it. When he betrayed Revan, he actually left himself in a very bad position- it was the height of a war which, with Bastilla's help, was beginning to turn against the Sith. So he got rid of Revan when the Sith most needed him/her, to use his keen tactical mind to counter Bastilla's battle meditation. This meant he had to go about the time consuming business of turning Bastilla to the Dark Side. Not only this, but he fractured the Sith into those who beleived that he was the rightful Sith Lord, and those who weren't so sure. As a result, he needed to order summary executions to stop this rift- a complete waste of troops. He wasn't a betrayer at all, he was a "bitch" with ideas above his station- an opportunist with all the forethought of a rabbit on a motorway. , on the other hand, had it all planned from the beginning, and got what she wanted at the end . Go figure.

I would have followed Revan, but I would die in a suitably heroic way, like Obi Wan , before Malachor V, thus neatly avoiding the darkside, AND getting the added bonus of being all shimmery and blue, with a neatly clipped accent :cool:

Replica lightsabers! Replica lightsabers!

Zahn? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, he is the only EU writer that can write, lol :ph34r: EDIT: books wise

Nice one! will that work for KotOR I as well?

I'm not so sure that such a thing getting mentioned in a magazine is a good thing. Don't get me wrong, I thing what Aurora and the team are doing is a great thing, but if LA threw a hissy fit over people saying nasty stuff about the game and them on the board, then the consequenses over this might be worse "figuratively speaking, a Jedi has bigger wings" as it were. It's probably better if there is as little official recognition as possible. No offense Aurora, I'm sure you're a great guy n all Back to the pub for me then.

Flowing robes!! Guess simple things please simple minds.

I love you :D :">

Ahhh, genius is such a burden... I was merely throwing in a suggestion, but if you think trying to help is pointless abuse, then that's not my problem

You still trust Kreia?? Anyways... I think they could have taken the exile and Atris' history a little further than it went (as far as i know, at least)

Errm, seeing as you've got a PC.... and presumably a legal copy of the game.... why don't you just reinstall it? P.s. its ok, you can worship my genius later.

6600gt supports openGL 1.3 if I'm correct, and that should be ok since nvidia cards only need version 1.3... Only Ati cards need 1.4 (correct me if I'm wrong).... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's the other way round- Ati 1.3 and nVidia 1.4

I'd be sad to see these forums go... they were the first ones I ever joined ::sniff:: I know I never posted much (joined almost as soon as news got out about KotOR 2 came out in UK Xbox magazine, or whichever one it was), and I was always greatful for the way the devs would actually keep us informed themselves... it was a pleasent surprise, after looking at some other developer sites. Shame about all the **** Obsidian caught for what is a great game. Maybe closing the forums might be inteded to cut all the whinging pre-schoolers that joined just to slag KotOR2 and Obsidian off, or maybe I'm being optimistic. Its late. I'm gonna sleep now. Nite, and perhaps goodbye. :ph34r: Thirds the request for that link

Bugger.