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You say this (repeatedly I might add) as if anyone here should care.

No. If they do make any more KOTOR games, they should stop at 3. Sci-fi fans tend to get complainy when they get too much sci-fi in too short of a time. Maybe in 10 years or so they could revisit the KOTOR series and do a third or fourth installment, not before.

Yes, KOTOR 2 had an ending, just not a very good one. If you want a game that truly has no ending, try Max Payne 2 or Republic Commando. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Never played Max Payne 2 and only played Republic Commando for about 15 minutes. How did the "not-endings" work in thoose? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> MP2: You kill some generic bad guy in a bunker, Max's love interest dies (strangely, I didn't care), end credits roll. RC: You blow up some building, one of your team dies (not-so-strangely, I still didn't care since they can just grow another one), brief cutscene with your dropship leaving, end credits roll. Since I just finished it, I can now comment on Half-Life 2's ending, which is far more anti-climatic, and leaves far more loose ends and unanswered questions and with far less sense of accomplishment than KOTOR 2's. In K2, Kreia is at least a somewhat worthy antagonist, and there's some hint as to what happens to you, the other characters, and the places you've visited. It's a rushed ending that left a lot unresolved, but it is an ending. KOTOR 2's ending may be disappointing, but it's not that bad compared to many other games out there.

Yes, KOTOR 2 had an ending, just not a very good one. If you want a game that truly has no ending, try Max Payne 2 or Republic Commando.

I'm beginning to hope that there won't be a KOTOR 3. I remember that tons of people both here and on the Bioware forum were bitching about KOTOR 2 long before it was released. When it came out, surprise surprise, they hated it. Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy going on here. Doubtless, the same will happen to KOTOR 3 if it's made.

It was an alright game. Not perfect, but far from deserving of the endless tirades and incessant bitch fests it's been subjected to. Between this and Republic Commando (another decent game that get's an undue amount of bashing, though maybe I just think that because I didn't pay for it), I'm beginning to suspect that Star Wars fans are simply whiney.

They already are canon. At least, as much so as any novel, other video game or comic. They both were the minute "Star Wars" was put in the title. If true (which I doubt) that's their opinion, nothing more. In the game, Revans gender and alignment are variable. Until or unless KOTOR 3 establishes these things, there is no "official" gender or alignment for Revan or the Exile. Just because you're ignorant of them (admittedly, so am I) doesn't mean that such women didn't exist. Even if there were none (which I doubt), why wouldn't we buy it? It's an infinitely smaller leap than hyperspace, planets with no vegetation but with a biosphere, and dare I mention the Force? To answer the main question of this thread (if you haven't guessed my position by now): No. Revans gender and alignment should remain up to the individual player to decide.

It's just you. These are very superficial similarities, the type you could probably find in just about every RPG ever made. It's not the same planet. Why not? A lot can happen in five years. On Earth maybe. Dantooine isn't Earth. The planet was destroyed four years before the first KOTOR, so it would be closer to 9 years. It's 4,000 years, not 3,000, and it doesn't go against the game time period at all. It was established in the original movie that the Old Republic had ruled the galaxy for some 20-25,000 years, which makes it around 15-20,000 years at the time of the KOTOR games. Space travel and advanced weapons are old habit to them. The ships and personal weapons look similar because the designers kept going with what had worked for 20,000 years and found no way to improve on it. As far as races and evolution: Evolution works over the course of millions, if not billions of years, not mere thousands. There's no reason for the species to be any different. Lastly, it's my understanding that the Wookiees weren't still enslaved during the prequels (as evidenced by a Wookiee senator). They were enslaved in the KOTOR era by the Czerka corp. and again 4,000 years later when the Empire came to power.

Hmmm. In my experience, the "you should talk to this NPC" moments only occur at certain points on the maps, most of which are nowhere near hostiles. Anyway, on topic: I'd say that the first KOTOR was better. In general, the characters are more likeable and easier to identify with. The storyline was more complete and coherent. KOTOR 2 wasn't bad either, just not as good as it's predecessor. While some of the characters were interesting, I didn't get into them like I did the first cast. The storyline left too many loose ends and too many plot holes. It's true that a lot of the plot holes are filled in by in-game dialogue, but the coherence of the story is too dependant on the player putting all the pieces together, which is fun to a certain extent, but doing it this much is just tedious. TSL wasn't without it's strengths over the first one though. It did have a far better antagonist in Darth Traya and to a lesser extent Darth Sion. I enjoyed the moral ambiguity of many of the characters and situations, it made the setting and people seem more real in a way. I also liked how they reconciled the two endings of KOTOR 1, which I thought was well done and far more creative than establishing one ending and/or PC gender as the official one.

This option is the closest. Everyone except Hanharr (if you're dark side), Mandalore and the droids can be made into Jedi.

Fact is that it's not only a sequel, it's also a media tie in. Because of that, it could have been the best game ever made and the fanboys would still be whining about it incessantly. But it's really your call if you want to listen to them. I couldn't care less.

Holy unfairness, Whystalker. Online I don't expect folks to be exactly astute in their grammatic -- heck, who is? Additionally, try to remember that non English speakers may be using the site. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I did consider the possibility that he isn't from an English speaking country, but based on the types of grammar and spelling mistakes he was making, I'm guessing that that's not the case. If I'm proven wrong I'll apologize, until then my opinion stands.

Given your poor spelling and grammar, as well as your obviously limited vocabulary, I'm not inclined to give your opinion any weight at all. Why should I believe that you know what you're talking about if you don't know how to talk (figuratively speaking)?

Just about every line of dialogue in the game about Darth Traya and her identity would seem to disagree with you. It may once have been the developer's intention for Atris to be Darth Traya, but that's not the way the cookie ultimately crumbled. Kreia is Darth Traya. Accept it.

Can't say I do either, but even if they got their information from Lucasarts, it really doesn't matter. What's official in Star Wars is what's in the movies, on the pages of the novels/comics, and yes, what's in the games. What the powers that be have to say about it is irrelevant. Or rather, it's relevant only up until the product is finalized and released to the public. After that, they have no say in how the fans are to interpret it. I mean, if George Lucas walked up to you, and told you that Luke Skywalker was a 3' tall purple elephant, would you believe him? Everything in the films suggests that he's a blonde, white human man of average height, yet this hypothetical Lucas insists that he's a 3' tall purple elephant. Which do you believe? Until or unless KOTOR 3 establishes the gender and alignment of Revan and the Exile, any and all combinations are equally correct.

That's some very convincing evidence you provided to back up that claim. No, not really. They do have some kind of power: The kind of power to put whatever content they want into their films, books and games. However, that power does not extend to how we, the fans, are supposed to think about those products. The content they put in allowed for the player characters to be male or female, and allowed for multiple endings as well as choices that affect the storyline throughout the game. What they say about that content is irrelevant, what matters is that they put it in. Yeah, because there's such a strong consensus among Star Wars fans that the prequels are great films deserving of their financial success. Sorry, but the fact of the matter is that the opinions of fanboys means nothing to these companies. That's such a relevant and intelligent counter-arguement. I'm impressed by your debating skills. No, not really.

I think you're just being hypersensative. The same arguements could be made in reverse for the first KOTOR. For example: Carth: Whiney coward. He talks and talks about protecting people, but when it comes time to do it, he'll leave a 14 year old girl to die. Jolee: Weak old man. His attempts at wisdom are nothing that you don't already know. Zaalbar: Pretty much useless all around. Canderous: Probably the most degrading character in video game history. "I'm big and dumb and all I know how to do is kill things." That paints guys in a real flattering light. Of course, I'm not going to make these arguements, since I don't really believe this stuff, but if I was hypersensative about sexism against men, I could.

If such a statement was to be made, Lucasfilm wouldn't be the branch making it. Their only interests are in the movies. I suspect that what you quoted is just some fanboy making stuff up. Even if George Lucas, or some other high-up at Lucasarts did say that, so what? Sorry, but they allowed the characters to be variable gendered and they allowed multiple endings. Until or unless there's another installment in the KOTOR saga that firmly establishes these things about it's predecessors, Lucasarts has no say over the gender of the characters or the outcome of the stories. And no, fan consensus doesn't matter. If you want to think of Revan as a light side male, that's fine. I tend to as well, but think it because it's what you want to think, not because it's what you were told to think. You were born with your own mind, use it.

Funny how people claim that they would have waited for a completed game, but they aren't willing to wait for a completed patch. This isn't directed at you specifically, just a general observation of the people here.

Revan is the guy with medium/long brown hair, combed back. He's a Scout/Guardian and uses a single green bladed lightsaber. He believed that his name was Trebb Namrag until he found out otherwise. The exile's the white girl with short blonde hair. She's a Guardian/Weapon Master and uses a single violet bladed lightsaber. Her name is Rena Baltron. I'm guessing from the wink smiley that you're just trying to get a rise out of the female Revan crowd, but if you're being serious, that's just idiotic. If they intended for either Revan or the Exile to be male or light side, they wouldn't have spent all the time, effort, and money making gender and alignment specific dialogue, characters (in KOTOR 2's case) or female portraits. It matters about as much as anything discussed on this forum.

What I'd like to see is: 1. A combination of new and returning characters. 2. A better storyline (although if it had the same quality overall storyline with only a better ending, I'd be content with that). 3. A new engine would be nice, especially since the current one would be getting pretty dated in the year or two it would take for a KOTOR 3 to be released, but it isn't absolutely necessary. 4. A new ship would also be nice, but again not absolutely necessary. I'd also hope the Ebon Hawk makes a cameo at least, even if you don't get to fly it. 5. A combination of established Star Wars worlds and new planets developed for the game. 6. Resolve some (hopefully most) of the loose ends from KOTOR 2.

It was disappointing, but I wouldn't say it sucked.

And Atton knows better than you do . . . how? Decide for yourself if this is true or not, don't let a fictional character decide for you. Especially not a fictional character that just about all of the other characters describe as a fool.

If you haven't played the game yet, it's your own fault for getting "spoiled". If you didn't want to be "spoiled" then you should be smart enough to stay away from this forum, where there's obviously going to be in depth discussion on the plot and characters.

Starbucks set up shop there. Because of course Malachor V is exactly the place where you'd find a prosperous, stable community where a business would succeed and grow. Seriously though, they'll probably do with Malachor what they did with various planets from KOTOR. Since it can turn out either way, they'll just avoid the issue by not returning there. Same with Onderon, Dantooine and to a lesser extent Telos.