Kalfear

heheh well KotOR_rules2004, 1) On a different string in this forum (one about Vrook being a Sith) a few of us try to answer your questions as best we can. In the end tho, its just players trying to dig deeper into the storylines and the motives behind the actions, even if you agree/disagree with everything said there its not official in any way but might bring some light on the topic you ask about 2 and 3) Only Obsidian can answer those for you and they have been tight lipped! Maybe after the PC version releases they will be willing to explain their thought process behind it all.

Problem with that Ryan is Yoda has played no role what so ever in Old Republic storylines what so ever. Obviously Jedi are falling to the darkside long before either Darth Vader or Yoda became players so how can Yoda be heald responcible? Just something to think about! Also, sorry cant agree. Like most classics, the book was 100000 time better then the movie (which was awsome, dont get me wrong). But the movie ledt entire storylines out for the sake of time restrictions. <snickers> and before you heap to much credit on the movie you should realize that Coppola did such a terrible job first time around that the producer of the movie (after test screening) chewed him a new A###ole and forced him to reedit the entire thing from start to finish (appearantly Coppolas vision of the movie played out like some 4th rate Love Story and lost almost all resemblance it had to the original book other then character names). To each their own tho. Godfather stays as one of the best peices of "modern" literature I have read. *much much much better then some of the follow up book Puzu wrote*

LOL, interesting and good write up Horus. Gotta admit I dont follow your line of thinking about Dr. Spock tho, all he basically said was everyone else was wrong with out really backing up his statement (IE: blah blah as you stated) but thats a different discussion for a different time! You made alot of good and interesting points, many of them actually shadowed what I had said but you went way more in depth and involved all the characters. In the end I guess it all comes down to how you veiw the characters and their actions. I agree Kavar is the closet thing to a real jedi left (said as much in my own postings). Nar Shadaar guy just comes off as the cowardly Lion to me. I think the storyline would have been more interesting to be honest if the jedi master on Korriban was the one alive and the Nar Shadaar guy was the one dead to be honest. Whats her name that died on Korriban seemed by far the more interesting of the two characters, but that never really got explored. To myself, Vrook is well on his way to being a Sith Lord. All his actions and motives that drive him embrace the dark said, all that is left is for his to openly admit it. heheh, just for arguement sake tho, I think GoTO wins the award for most HATED KotOR characters! LOL. Vrook (or Hanhaar) might get second place tho!

The only real advice I can give you is dont take Mira on Nar Shadaar (heheh, I figured out a way to get Mira before even touching the Refugee section once, but sadly there was no influence to be gained with her there so was a waste of time). Every character is good in specific situations, so you need to switch up whose in party alot to gain the influence you need for each one. Its really challenging to try and figure out who is best in what situation. That alone kept me interested my 8th time through game! I wanted to have ONE game where EVERYONE was jedi and EVERY conversation string had been opened! Almost succeeded but hated GoTo so much I just couldnt be bothered to raise his influence after first couple gains. Got all my goals done for other characters tho

Hmmmm thats a different take on things! What I got from Atris was she was sith not only because she allowed her anger to control her and harbored jealousy and grudges but because she was activly learning the sith secrets and embracing them. She does go as far as saying that the old Jedi teachings were incorrect and only she is qualified to teach new jedi under her OWN system (which is a combination of Jedi AND Sith principles). I had no issues what so ever with Srtis being called a Sith as I guessed that part at our original meeting as it was. It was that obvious. Altho I never went as far as calling her a Sith Lord. Regardless of claims it seemed to me she was quite content to learn the sith secrets alone with only her SERVANT around her. She didnt really seem all that interested in gathering or teaching others to be honest. Kinda a Junari character from KotOR1, she ran away and stayed in her self impossed prison/exile while embracing the dark side. Vrook tho is Sith all the way. No doubt about it what so ever. heh, and yes Dr, most folks here would be sith, not jedi if this was reality! Thats whats great about Sci fi and fantasy, you get to play the hero you can never truely be in reality! You get to immerse yourself into a fantasy (imaginary) role. You get to be the character you always wished you could be deep down inside. Thats what RPGs are all about

LOL, a little of one and alot of the other, take your pick at which is which! heh

Obi, I vist LA site daily and never seen any announcement that Knights 3 development on hold so since no link was provided regarding this statement Im taking that as rumor only. But even if its true, rest assured KotOR series has been a major cash cow for LA and Obsidian/Bioware so even if on hold, it will never be discontinued until such a time as the interest is no longer there (IE: profits drop dramatically). I think its safe to say, we all can expect at a minimum parts 3,4,5 down the road of the old republic series. Part 3 might end the Revan/Excile storyline but Im sure (if thats the case) they will just create a new storyline based in the Old Republic and start anew heheh now if only they would start making a Old Republic MMORPG!!!!! Just cancelled my 2 SWG accounts as SWG is but a shadow compared to the fun of the Old Republic games and just couldnt get back into SWG after playing KotOR2. Dang it all, I need my daily fix tho <shivers and shakes from withdrawl> heheheh

Sorry Dawn nope. List I gave yas has always worked for me. Once planets cleared there really is only conversation options left but you have exhausted those so think yas outta luck this time around.

Aye, I noticed the same thing myself. No idea why that is. <shrugs> ok I admit I havent truely given it much thought to begin with! hehehe. Honestly I find it really funny! Been playing MMORPGs for 14 years now (since the first one on the market...NwN on AOL) so the flamers and complainers here come off as very amatuerish at the best of times! So having seen board flamers that can actually get under your skin and drive you nuts, the ones here are really quite amusing (in a really patetic <sp?> sort of way) in contrast!

I thought you claimed to have not experienced bugs or glitches? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> reading comprehension isnt your strong point is it? you commented on this in another thread and clarified that in terms of getting no "bugs or glitches", i was referring to blackscreens, freezings, or shutdowns. in otherwords game stopping bugs. being unable to complete a minor quest isnt a game stopper. hopefully you actually pay attention this time so that you wont be stalking me in every thread i post in and saying "i thought you said you had no bugs or glitches". btw, if you hate the game, why are you still here? i understand complaining about the game a few times when you first get it, but youve wasted close to 300 posts since its release complaining about it and just being a general nuissance. maybe its just me, but if i dislike a game as much as you do, i do the common sense thing and...oh i dont know....leave the forums and never play the game again? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LOL, damn you all!!!!!! Played the game 8 times and never knew you could take Davral on that mission with you! Ive always tried (failed) to find a elder to watch me kill him so I get honor that way (as they say at the battle circle if you kill a Mandalorian in a fair fight in the presence of a (forget actual word) Elder, this is concidered honorable". LOL, between this and getting vilagers on dant to join the militia im going to have to play game for a 9th time! LOL! hehe, Night, ignore Ep. Her only goal in life is to try and make others as miserable as she obviously is. Pity her but dont take her bait! <does a corny grin and speaks in a sagely voice> That path leads to the dark side! Choose not to follow it padawen! hehehehehehe

Reason I refer to him as a Sith Lord is he is a prime example of everything a Jedi shouldnt be! While im not a stickler for the Star Wars lore like some readers here, could care less about the EU (novels and other articles) and really coud care less about the continuity of the Star Wars lore as longs as what im playing is fun, there is certain things even I expect and demand stay consitant. One of those things is the True and real Jedi are shining examples of GOOD. They are the examples of people that have forsaken relationships (in theory), material gains, ego driven goals, and above all else...intellegent and wise, for the sake of bettering those around them and sticking up for the little guy. Master Vrook is none of those things. In the game (when you repair the droid at the Dantoine Landing Pad) you learn that Vrook has carried a grudge since your early days as a padawen in the jedi academy. Even back then his arguement regarding you was based on insults and suspicions rather then hard facts and knowledge. Then in the holocron about you being exiled you get the impression once again hes motives are anything but pure and is one of the driving forces in having the council lie to you (Jedi are not suppose to lie). When you save him from the Mercs he is trapped in a cage and you have learned that the mercs are going to attack the settlers REGARDLESS of him being held prisoner (his bounty and the attack planned on the settlers do NOT effect the other). Yet rather then be thank ful and concerned about the settlers he is arrogent and concieted to a fault believing that as long as he is a captive that will satify the mercs (it wont and doesnt). This incident is NOT intellegent, its NOT wise, it is based soly on ones over inflated ego of themselves and would have ultimately done great harm to the settlers if you had not interveined. Yet in his arrogent driven conceit he is unable to see this or just refuses to acknowledge this (again, this is dark side, not light side traits). *addition*: If you play Dark Side, Vrook doesnt even warn the settlers you have fallen to the darkside and allows them to put their hope and faith in YOU rather then show himself and safe them. He potentially sacrafises them to save himself once again. The REALLY REALLY telling tale for me tho is when they they try to strip your power. While I think all 3 jedi are out of place in the meeting, Vrook again comes of as having personal and ego driven reasons for the act. The fact of the matter is by this time you are the ONLY jedi in existance to not only meet the new sith threat but survive it on two occations now. You have saved the Dant settlers (if playing lightside of course), Saved the Onderon Queen and stabilized their political climate (when the master Jedi there decided to do things behind the sceens to achieve his own agenda at the very posible cost of the queens rule and life), eliminated the exchange from Nar Shadaar and helped countless refugees towards makeing a better life for themselves (when the master jedi there only hid and did nothing for those that could not defend themselves and were being exploited). You have set in place the foundation for the Onderon people to form a uneasy but potentially great self benefiting alliance with the Mandalorians on Dunx and the Onderon people. So after all this, Vrooks choice is a hastily agreement giving no thought or care to the costs of innocent lives and only the current power he currently holds (he says they see the deatyh of the force, but since there is only 4 known jedi left (not counting yourself), he votes to strip you of the force so himself and 3 others maintain connection to the force rather then him losing his own force powers and defeating the current enemy laying waste to the known republic planets. In other words, he chooses 4 people over millions all for greedy and self absorbed reasons. I dont call the other two (Kavar and whats his name on Nar Shadaar) sith because at least prior to the very poorly layed out encounter where they try to strip you of your powers they at least act (or comacross) as jedi. Cowerds yes but still Jedi. Vrook NEVER in the entire game (or really game 1 either if you think back) comes across as jedi'ish. He is driven by hiw own quest for personal power. He is arrogent, acts on his emotions rather then the facts, self obsorbed, and just not very smart or wise. Those traits make for a Sith, not a Jedi, not a padawen, and definately not a member of the Jedi Council. His lust for power is greater then some of the supposive villians you face, but its more dangerous because he hids it behind the false image of the Jedi. As I said at the start, Im not big on the whole EU and all that, I have NEVER even read a Star Wars novel (I prefer fantasy and fiction (The God Father, Oliver Twist, War and Peace, ect) over sci fi) but even I find fault in the presentation of Vrook. Based soly on what I have seen and my (undeniable) lack of knowledge in everything Star Wars, his title shall always remain, Sith Lord Vrook to me. PS: That council meeting where they try to strip you of your power reallly makes NO sence what so ever if you have played up to it as a LS Jedi. It was just a badly layed out senario in what otherwise is a awsome and incredible game.

heh aye i found peragus station to be like pulling teeth when redoing the game, soon after peragus tho it started to get interesting again. For your next play through heres a tip. After leaving Telos academy, spend a good amount of time just talking to the present Party characters. Save after each influence gain and then explore the communication lines some more! Then land, leave ship, reboard ship so you get visas fast as well. Most of the things I missed my first time through were caused by me not spending enough time exploring the conversation options and paying attention to the effects.

That should be more then enough to get him to become a jedi, you must have had some influence lost in there you not mentioning or didnt notice as otherwise you would be able to.

really? how do you get him to say it? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just ask him, its one of the conversation options after your first repair him. Dont think it requires any additional influence either. The line is "what is love?"

Thanks Frankychan. I think the KOTOR games are making great strides in producing an almost cinematic role-playing experience with hundreds if not thousands of paths that all still have to come home to the same set of milestones and the same climactic set-up. It's almost inevitable that when you take a product that ambitious and put it in the hands of millions of users that some glitches are going to be revealed. I figure one of the reasons Obsidian maintains this board is to give us a forum to relate those problems so they can make future games (and PC-version patches) even better. I don't believe there's any reason for people to be such pricks about it, but it ain't my place to tell them how to act. (I think they probably did rush it to the stores for some reason. I seem to remember mid 2005 as the anticipated release date when the project started. The end product would've benefited from a couple months' intensive playtesting, but I don't know what's going on with Obsidian. Somebody said they're a small company, maybe they just needed some income to meet payroll. Whatever. The glitches I came across were minor, more interesting than annoying. They certainly weren't worth getting pissed off about.) I guess it's easier for me to suspend disbelief than some people, but the only glitchy/weird things that really stood out for me my first time through: a. What's with the wicker baskets? They made sense in the couple primitive villages you visit in KOTOR, in KOTOR2 it seemed like someone was shopping at Pier One. b. After you cut a deal to get fuel from, uh, the big guy, you oughta be able to go RIGHT BACK you-know-where and tell you-know-who. The big guy specifically tells YOU to deliver the message since the would-be clients ain't eager to talk to him, and the fuel situation is presented as an emergency. I'm not sure you ever really can settle it. Some people seem to want to stare into those (and other) glitches and brood and get angry and get abusive towards the developers and anyone who isn't also eaten up over it. That path leads to the Dark Side, and it's just plain infantile and stupid. I'd sooner look at those glitches as opportunities to make KOTOR3 even better than its predecessors, and I figure the folks at Obsidian see it the same way. I was on the KOTOR boards for a long time and I'm pretty sure the Obsidian folks paid a lot of attention to folks complaints and requests developing KOTOR2. I think the franchise is in good hands. I sure wouldn't trust it with half these crybabies who can only come in here spitting insults and stomping their little feet. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well said Obi, well said

imo, one of the most useless powers. it never really worked, and the rare instances the monster didnt save against it, it just took off some hit points without actually "controlling" the beast. i figured it would work similar to how confusion works on human enemies. but unless im doing something wrong, it doesnt. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Its basically a hold animal spell! Worked ok in some areas but for the most part was a throw away skill. Still was kinda cool how you learned it

Its one of the first options you have to ask HK after initial meeting His reply is well worth it!

naaaaa, Like the others I think Revan should be saved for part 3. As frank said, the options would havce been nuts! hehehe The biggest issue I see facing Obsidian for part 3 (if they include Revan that is) is what Revan is included? Male/female? Ls/darkside/neutral? My money is on a Neutral Male (so they can fit in the real Bastila saga from first game). I expect that if both Revan and the Exile included in part 3, the Exile (not Revan) will be the main character (mostly because the Exile is Obsidians creation completely (while Revan has ties to Bio-ware). Either way, should make for a interesting and compelling part 3

aye there was one a week ago or such. most polls here only get 30-40 replies so not a real indication of the general feeling out there tho

Agree While I could care less about the EU or official rules for Star Wars (I only care about if I enjoy a game and have fun). I got to admit I wondered why I even saw Bastila (as light side Bastila) in my games when I was suppose to be the last jedi. I could understand the Jedi on Nar Shadaar and Onderon not being noticed (as they were basically cowards), and fully agree Vrook is a Sith Lord so makes sence hes not hunted, but Bastila and her battle meditation was a decideing figure in the Jedi Wars. She should have been hunted for sure! Like I said, im not a big stickler on the continuity of the Star Wars lore (heheh much better things to do in my life then worry about if something in a game fits in perfectly with the EU or CORE Rules) but this one was obvious to even me. heheh can yas say designer OPPS! Ahhh well, not a big deal and hardly a game breaker in any form heh Jor, there was one game I ran through where she appeared beside Carth (after Carth spoke to me about Revan after the Ravenger and protecting the Republic) where she was obviously light side and not a holocron. Im assuming thats where others saw her as well. If you take Revan as a male darkside then you see the holocron in Korriban with Bastila.

Yikes! Why ask if you take acception to the answers???? You asked and people gave you reasonable and realistic answers, dont turn this into anouther mindless flame post directed at Obsidian (like 4 other posters here love to do). Also, George Lucas is a man, hes not a god and hes not perfect. You CAN be a Star Wars fan with out falling all over yourself at the mear mention of Lucas's name. The original Star Wars was a great feel good Trilogy, but it was basically Cowboys and Indians in space! Lucas himself admitted as much many many years ago! This storyline (in KotOR2) "ATTEMPTS" at being complicated. In many areas they succeeded, in some they failed! KotOR1 (again, was a awsome and great game) didnt even attempt at being complicated, you followed the dots to the end. There was never any question or surprises (other then you being Revan) at how it would play out. But that attempt favors well in the longevity of this series and many more fun games to come in it. PS: I read LA boards as well and dont see these endless complaints you mention. On these boards there is only 4 real complainers that say the game is trash! Sure they post 50 messages a day but its still only 4 people! Most complaints come from folks that missed a key sentance or phrase in game, once they find out they go back to supporting the game fully! 4 people doesnt even make a minority! They simply dont count or matter!

(play as a male mainly, female version wasnt as much fun this time unlike KotOR1). Usually Id start at Nar Shadaar but after much thought Id have to go with Onderon. Reason is, there is NO influence spots on Onderon for Mira (hated Hanhaar so even when playing evil I stay neutral to good till I get Mira). There is however influence spots on Nar Shadaar! So just makes sence to get Mandalore first. Also, I dont worry about Lightsabre early on, I train up dueling to increase my unarmed ability early in game so I can win the duels in the Telos academy AND the duels on Dunx. So Im not in any great rush to get my lightsaber as my task points used up elsewhere anyways. I think the best route for game (male) is 1)Onderon (take Handmaiden, Bao, or Visas with you, there is influence spots for all 3 on Onderon). 2) Nar Shadaar 3)Onderon 4)Dantoine 5)Koriban If I was playing female, id probably hit Dant first and do ONLY the lower enclave to get the Disiple, then follow same above path for remainder of game.

For myself I think KotOR2 is as good as the first one (not better, stronger in some areas, weaker in others, similar end result tho): 1) Storyline: I found the storyline to be much more advanced then the first one. It had a more mature theme to it then KotOR1 had. As a older gamer, I grow tired of the simplistic storylines so appreciate when any game designer incorperates a more mature nature to the game (no im not talking about porn and swearing, neither of those mean mature imo). There were twists, intrige, betreyals, multiple romances, politics added into part 2s storyline. I really think its the better of the two storylines but for some reason didnt run as smoothly as part 1s (that might be because of all the extras involved in part 2s story). 2) Characters: I felt much closer to more characters in kotor2 then I did in part 1. I found myself thinking of them as actual characters rather then npc party members for the most part (exceptions being GOTO (which I totally hated) and Hanhaar). In part one I really was only interested in my character, Bastila, and Carth. None of the other characters managed to grab me and maintain my attention for the whole game! At the end of part 2, even tho Kreia tells you their futures, I fouynd myself wanting to know more about them and what happens. I just didnt have that feeling after part 1 in terms of characters. 3) far as the engine and all that, I really didnt notice a difference (other then new force powers) between 1 and 2. It was the actual story that hooked me this time around. KotOR1 was a awsome game and hooked me on Star Wars (altho that Repubic demo turned me totally and completely back off, gawd I hate mindless FPS's). At the end of one I just wanted to play more! It wasnt enough, I wanted more game. At the end of two (as I said above) I not only wanted to play more again, but I wanted to know what happens to each character!!! 4) and to be honest I prefered starting as a jedi in part2. I always hated part 1 for those levels before you become a jedi. Just wasnt my cup of tea in that regard. In the end, I think part 1 was more polished and definately ran smoother, but I think part 2 was the bigger undertaking and took KotOR series out of the kiddies land and placed it firmly in the hands of a mature design for adults. Part 1 was great fun but its story wasnt anything beyond that of a teen agers novel. Part 2 was in many ways darker and more complexe. Anyways, thats my take on it Love both games and cant wait for part 3

I have to say 1) Visas 2) Mira 3) Handmaiden 4) Bastila