Meshugger

It's an even greater shame how some of the translations are... outright misinterpretive. Case in point: János Pilinszky: Fish in the net Writhing in a star-net like fish hauled on land we gasp in the emptiness our gills filled with sand The element we've left and lost whispers in vain we pant on the shingle were we've been thrown. Crammed one against the other fighting for breath we struggle and tremble in the face of death. From the wriggling mass come stifled cries but the massacre continues till one, then other, dies. Atonement and repentance are the language of the soul but nothing can save us from this hopeless hell – We writhe in the net of some cosmic fisherman and maybe at midnight will be in his frying pan. (Translation by a certain Kenneth White) It almost unrecognizably distorts the original meaning in at least two places. That was great until the last line. 'Frying pan' sounds too raw and direct compared to the overall flow of the rest of the poem. Sounds better in hungarian perhaps?

Hmm. But wouldn't "doing it right" amount to large-scale reconditioning? Yep. If you have a message that rings true to our base emotions, then anything's is possible; The good and the bad. So what's left is only the moral component on what the message is to serve. So, in this case, it's a bad attempt to look good (treat people well, we are the same) when the message used with in euphemism which is inheritly unequal (a talbot is not the same as ferrari, nor the status of having one). So therefore it is a, lazy, untrustworthy and unconvincing piece of video. Which leads bad moral premise, which leads it to be another lofty ideal by people who secretly wishes to be the aristocrats that they are fighting against. This guy mastered these things to such a degree that we can thank him for all modern advertising, focus groups before and during election cycles, marketing, you name it, if you're more interested in what i am getting at. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays I have, like, no idea what you just said. And in light of your increasingly disjointed posting, I'm kinda scared to ask. Regardless, I don't see how Bernays is relevant. Hating (if that's what you're doing, it's hard to tell) on PR and propaganda is like hating on calculus or gunpowder. This stuff gets discovered/invented as time goes on and it's neither good nor bad, intrinsically. Not to mention that none of that is the point of the video, as others have repeatedly pointed out... I just like to point out badly produced propaganda when the message becomes convulted by either malice, incompetence, or simply by both. You're welcome.

So... people who are bad at metaphors are evil hypocrites, is that your point? Maybe, or just incompetent buffoons. Feel free to speculate. Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence, etc etc. I can agree on that point. I am too lazy to dig into the who the guy is, who the producer is, who is financing it, etc, etc, to prove otherwise. But my point is sexier.

So... people who are bad at metaphors are evil hypocrites, is that your point? Maybe, or just incompetent buffoons. Feel free to speculate.

Hmm. But wouldn't "doing it right" amount to large-scale reconditioning? Yep. If you have a message that rings true to our base emotions, then anything's is possible; The good and the bad. So what's left is only the moral component on what the message is to serve. So, in this case, it's a bad attempt to look good (treat people well, we are the same) when the message used with in euphemism which is inheritly unequal (a talbot is not the same as ferrari, nor the status of having one). So therefore it is a, lazy, untrustworthy and unconvincing piece of video. Which leads bad moral premise, which leads it to be another lofty ideal by people who secretly wishes to be the aristocrats that they are fighting against. This guy mastered these things to such a degree that we can thank him for all modern advertising, focus groups before and during election cycles, marketing, you name it, if you're more interested in what i am getting at. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

Maybe think less in terms of "grand social engineering" and more in terms of "basic empathy". You might want to look that up, btw. Bah, why bother. Oh, empathy is an inherit trait in all of us and it is our duty as mothers and fathers to nurture that in our children.....but i simply cannot take his argument seriously when he compares the human experience to the brands of cars. My point? If you have a positive message, do it right and do it well.

It may be happening sooner than you think. We may be taking the first steps to becoming Transhuman really soon, and in a Posthuman future what do you attach 'human' to? "Transmogrification sequence initiated. Gene sample accepted and cloned, please key in new genetic structure." ...and within a generation, all of the type human 2.0 will look like their favourite anime characters.

I can't still get over the comparison to cars. Of all euphemisms that you can think of, he couldn't think of one where it is not any more apparent that labels, looks and performance actually matter.

Excellent thread, more poems please.

Same old, same old. If we all just change in how we think, everything will be alright. Uh-uh, nevermind the fact that you cannot force people to like each other to begin with, but who and and which people will be held responsible for the reconditioning required of such scale? Of course no one thinks of that when all that's matter is happy feelz and Ok, now we all know that he's a liar. That poor shmuck has never owned a car in his life.

I've heard pledges, nice speeches, agreements and like since the conference in Rio in '92. Lets say i am a bit sceptical about this.

Here in the north where you have about just a few hours of sunlight, *not* celebrating christmas with all those christmas lights probably means that you're either completely cuckoo or a vampire.

Interesting how you guys eat fish as a main meal ..I love Herring Do you eat Reindeer ? The salmon and herring are just the appatizers. Reindeer is not eaten on christmas, it's more like something you eat during the weekday.

I will be spending Christmas Eve and Christmas Day with close family members, eating well (Ham, Turkey, Salmon, Herring, etc...) and giving presents. Boxing day will be out partying with friends. *crosses fingers for a white xmas*

He really does seem to make people to come together.

Way I see it, what is is that personality cults are popular with people who feel powerless (which, given the realities of the current economical climate, I'd wager is a sizeable portion of the population). But that hardly means personality cults are right, or generally a positive thing to have. What is right, morally speaking or positive, is not my point. Of course Caesarism is bad thing as it is a manifestation of a collapsing society (the reasons deserve a thread of their own).

I'd rather move away from personality cults tbh. The point is what is and not what should be. That's a weird thing to say right after you frame it as "the left better take notes". Not at all. The left needs to understand what is in order to reach out with their message better.

I would like to congratulate Frau Merkel for successfully ruining her own nation. It takes quite an effort to do so!

Well, the UK has some problems of its own. Like there are british muslims joining ISIS than there ones in the Army.

I do not know the exact details about Benghazi except for the Obama administration ****ing it up due to negliegence. However, the what i want to emphasize is that the hearings and investigations have already gone through the manufactured consent process. Meaning that even if the truth is that there's something wrong there and people did things the wrong way based on the wrong data, it now requires something direct that pierces through it all for it to have any effect in the public eye. Meaning a hosue committe unanimously declaring Clinton to stand trial for treason or there is a document, with witnesses, where she explicitly says to the embassy to go **** themselves. My 2 cents.

I'd rather move away from personality cults tbh. The point is what is and not what should be. Meshugger it sounds like you admire Trumps bravado and comments? Dilbert explains it better than everyone: http://blog.dilbert.com/post/134791529391/risk-management-trump-persuasion-series To put into context: People vote for Bernie Sanders because of the ideas that he represents, not for him personally. People vote for Trump personally and not for the ideas that he represents.

Well, Bruce has now come across as a nice, welcoming and rational individual in this thread. That pretty much says it all about Qistina's debating techniques.

I'd rather move away from personality cults tbh. The point is what is and not what should be.

Yes this is all over the international media....Gfted1 when Trump makes comments like he did how do you feel? I'm battling to understand why you guys aren't more annoyed and or concerned ? I know I tend to perhaps overact to these types of comments but surly someone on this forum from the USA must be a little ......exasperated ? To be honest I doubt anyone over here really cares, either about Trump (non supporters) or what the UK thinks of him (supporters) As far as banning or even severely restricting guns in other countries I'd be curious to see what ownership levels and such were like before the bans. I could see banning them here eventually succeeding but it would probably take a few generations of moves in that direction, essentially changing the culture. Severe restriction to gun ownership (like need to prove that you have practiced shooting for at least year before you can get permit to buy a light caliber gun and even longer if you want higher caliber gun) and return guns without licence without questions asked policy have dropped amount of guns owned by private citizens in Finland from estimated several millions to estimated bit over 1.5 million (which is about 1 private owned weapon per 4 citizens). This estimated change has happened in my life time. Although lots of the returned weapons without license were from time of second world war and years after it, so they have returned when their owners have died and their beneficiaries didn't know what to do with the weapons they inherited. It always makes me a bit sad when the populance of country opts out or severly restricts gun ownership, it simply brings a false sense of security since humans will never stop killing each other. I rather have a nation of strongly armed citizens than one where the ownership of guns is dependent on people secretly thinking that they are the masters of all. For example, the school shootings in Finland happened because of socially awkward and highly depressed boys didn't get the counsling when needed, not because of the availability of guns. As for Trump: the left better take notes. He's brash, shows strength, is unapologetic and taps into the issues that the establishment refuse to acknowledge; he simply has the leadership calibre that people are subconsiously attracted to. Find someone with those qualities and they will flock to you as well.

Well to be fair, neither Bush or Obama has caused any doom so far, just dumb things.