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In a party I usually value single class wizards, priests and druids more than their multiclasses. Ciphers and chanters I prefer to multiclass. The main reason is that Cipher's and Chanter's PL 8 and 9 spells aren't very exciting to me. Speaking of Cipher and Chanter: Psion/Troubadour has nice synergy for a caster multiclass imo. Not that one side boosts the spells of the other - but in terms of resouce generation and action economy it's a great fit. Also you can combine two of the most impactful things in one character: summons and mind control. Also works with Beguiler if you concentrate on the cheaper AoE deception spells (mostly Phantom Foes and Secret Horrors). Since you spend resources (and not spell slots) with those two classes you don't have the same situation as with wizards/priests/druids: you'd need to wait for new resources to fill up anyway. Instead of waiting or doing something suboptimal like attacking with a weapon, you just cast with the resource of the second class. Some caster multiclasses (which focus on casting) where I see synergies that can be worth multiclassing: Psion/Troubadour (or Beckoner or Bellower) Tactician/Wizard, -/Priest or -/Druid because of Brilliant I still like Steel Garrote/Bloodmage with Whispers of the Endless Paths because Blood Sacrifice gets automatically fueled by Offensive Parry. The weapon is basically a tool for more casting, not for melee attacks. You trade PL 8 and 9 for more tankyness and an action-economy-friendly spell refill. Helwalker with any caster because of the increased MIG (+15), INT(+10) and PEN (+2) as well as accuracy (+12). The summons are also good to have. But imo best with Cipher or Chanter because losing PL 8 and 9 doesn't hurt as much. Assassin/Wizard with Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure as you said Berserker/Priest just because of confused Withdraw (it's an autohit on enemies, too) which is really useful and is accessible so early. Cat Livegiver/Bloodmage because Wall of Draining prolongs Spiritshift + Cat Flurry (and the +5PL powerful healings) - the combo makes casting superfast and lets you use Blood Sacrifice without risk Troubadour/Druid where you use Brisk Recitation with the "Thick Grew their Tongues" chant anf Their Champion invocation as well as all pulsing spells (especially the ones with multiple rolls such as Venombloom) in combination with the Great Sword Effort and its enchantment Hemorrhaging as well as Hylea's Talos in order to generate countless crits with your spells and chant which will all interrupt. A walking interrupt machine.1 point
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I personally don't like Seven Nights a lot because I feel that the phrase/damage ratio is worse than Her Revenge in most cases. Eld Nary is great when you have more spread out enemies. I generally like White Worms. Its casting range, base damage and AoE size are decent, it's foe only. The drawbacks are long casting time (compared to Her Revenge for example) and that you need a corpse to cast it on (which gets consumed, so you need another one for the next cast). That makes it not viable against spirits for examples and makes it harder to use with other enemies that don't leave bodies (like disintegrated ones - or ones that explode from crits if you don't turn off the gib option). It also makes it harder to position. That's why I often skip it, even if I don't think it's bad. But with a character who doesn't want to get too close it could be a good alternative to stuff like Her Revenge and Seven Nights which require you to get somewhat near the enemies. But Eld Nary is also good with that - it just comes a lot later than White Worms. I almost never use And Evil turned away. The AoE is just too quirky and the effects are not really impressive for the cost.1 point
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Psion has the advantage of not screwing up the action enonomy of a caster and not needing to invest into anything martial (abilities, items etc.) in order to gain focus. This makes it a lot better against tough foes which are hard to deal weapon damage to than a regular cipher. Those ciphers are usually more potent against weaker (and more numerous) foes. But why would a Psion only use low level dps spells (I mean why use dps spells in the first place - but that's another discussion)? There's no real reason to limit yourself to low level spells unless you cannot bear to wait for a few seconds. Sure, it takes longer to collect the focus for the higher tier spells - but that's the case for all ciphers, they have to deal more weapon damage while they cannot cast. The difference with a Psion multiclass is that you don't need to attack (in a non-optimized way in this particular case) with a weapon to collect focus - but they can instead cast spells with the other class' resource in the meantime. Also I think many players forget that Soul Mind scales with Power Level and it doesn't actually take that long to fill up focus - especially if the other class spells that you like to use have longer casting time/recovery. Soul Mind doesn't stop to generate focus even when the Psion is doing a lengthy action, recovering, prone, disabled, debuffed etc. I think it's one of those things a player has to experience to really value its advantages (and also disadvantages if you play it in a "wrong" way). If a player now wants to concentrate on shred spells AND provide focus without actively investing time by attacking with a weapon (instead using the Chilling Grave trick) - and thus circumvent the action economy problems that Soublade/Caster combo normally would have - I can at least see the possibility that this might work. Tough enemies with high defenses will keep a Soulblade from gaining more focus with weapons. This includes Chilling Grave. I think it's really frustrating to play a cipher who cannot gain enough focus in certain fights. The Psion removes that problem and makes focus gain relatively predictable without investing into anything. As I said the need to attack with a weapon messes up the action economy and overall optimizing towards either spellcasting xor weapon usage. I think it's not a coincidence that the most liked Soulblade combos are made with martial classes and then focus on weapon usage + Soul Annihilation (and see the spells as an addon) and the most liked caster/Cipher combos usually gravitate towards Beguiler or Psion. But... if somebody tries to use the other advatages of the Soulblade (like cheaper shred spells) for a change and wants to see Soul Annihilation as the optional add-on and not main part of the build: I'm all for it. I just cannot predict if it will work well.1 point
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Depends. Soulblades also have cheaper shred spells and gain more max focus on kill. You can def. build around that and only view Soul Annihilation as a nice-to-have occasional ability. Also I think many players underestimate the potency of Aefyllath Mith Fyr + Soul Whip in general. But I agree that Bellower/Soulblade feels/reads like an odd combination. Skald/Soulblade would be the obvious choice (if you want to go melee Chanter/Cipher in the first place I mean). But... maybe if you want to really concentrate on casting damaging invocations and shred spells it might make some sense (although I'd still prefer Psion for that). Maybe the added versatility of having the occasional strong raw dmg melee attack - especially when you can exploit Chilling Grave + skeletons - is worth it. I can't really say, I haven't tried it. And what countless runs with a lot of odd combos have taught me: you can never be 100% sure how a build idea really works out (for you) unless you try it. On the other hand you don't want to waste precious playing time with things that don't work out for you. That's why I like the console. I simply load up any savegame, alter a character to the combo I want to try, spawn some enemies and try it out for a bit. This still isn't a guarantee that it works well throughout the game but imo it gives you a better sense for it. And sometimes you immediately notice "nope, doesn't work for me" - which is also very useful imo. You'll have three potential enjoyable things going for this combo: a) bombastic invocations, b) cheap shreds and c) a strong melee punch. Or four, if you count in the fact that you have d) two potentially bottomless resource pools. My gut felling says it wouldn't be a nice choice for me personally, but everybody's different so maybe this could really work for you. Sorry for the vagueness...1 point
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I don't think bellower (or chanter in general) helps much with soulblade. You really want to heavily use SA as a soulblade, or they're just ciphers but worse. Chanter doesn't add any speed or damage to your attack - SA loop. The only synergy is a lash, another chanter can simply give you that. Every time you cast a chanter spell, you're slowing down the attack - SA loop. Remember the retaliation of WotEP comes with a Dazed affliction, which makes enemies unable to engage you, so using disengagement attacks only works once in a while. I've tried using WotEP with Nomad's Brigandine, which makes enemy disengagement attacks automatically miss, and it's still meh, so WoTEP with The Fox... chant is just not worth it. If you want to improve single target damage of a chanter, you can: spamming Her Revenge... as skald (single or multi-class). It actually hits really hard Stand next to the target and cast Seven Nights... and its upgrade. If you hit it with at least 3 bolts, it's probably better than Her Revenge... in terms of efficiency. make use of Sure-handed... with ranged weapons and ranged-focused classes as caster, you can simply multiclass with wizard. Multiclass wizard still has incredible offensive single-target spells, provides speed bonus to the chanter, and benefits from Their Champion... They also want exactly the same attributes, which makes them easier to build than chanter/martial multiclass.1 point
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Let's face it, Khorne cares not about skin colour, gender or sexual orientation of who spills the blood or who's blood is spilled. In the end, everyone will be corpse starch. And in the eye of the hive fleet everyone is just biomass.1 point
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It's very funny seeing the dip**** brigade get big mad when it's pointed out that the Imperium of Man is in fact a dystopia and not something aspirational.1 point
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Babies still crying about female Custodes, I guess.1 point