[MECHANICS] Power level compilation thread

[Boeroer]

Exactly.

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Scrolls benefit quite a bit from power levels. 

[kmbogd]

I wonder why hasn't this thread been pinned. The OP does a good job explaining one of the more convoluted mechanics that is nowhere documented (especially for martial abilities).

 

later edit: @thelee

 

I've seen that there has been a change in the system, perhaps during patch 3.0. Now the ability level penetration scaling is (AbilityLevel-1)x2x0.25

 

Also I wanted to make a suggestion. I've seen that you use the term Power Level to refer to 3 different things, this creates a bit of confusion.Of course if you understand already how the system works it's easy to see to which of the 3 things you are referring when talking about Power Level in a certain context. However, for the people that don't already know the system it will be easier if you differentiate between the 3.

 

The first concept that I would suggest that you rename in your explanation is the principle of Ability Level instead of saying Power Level (in the context of an ability). I think this is a fitting name already used by the game. There is indeed a correlation between Ability Levels and character's Power Levels in that in the general case an ability becomes accessible to a character only when character's Power Level reaches at least the Ability Level. From this stems probably the reason for you naming these 2 concepts with the same name. But like you have very well exemplified with VileThorns, this is not always the case. Another difference is that during the game the PowerLevel (of a character) increases but that of the AbilityLevel always stays the same.

 

The second concept that needs to be made less confusing in my opinion is that of scaling difference (between a character's Power Level and the Ability Level of the spell/martial_ability he/she is trying to use). Calling this concept also Power Level is ambiguous. I would suggest Power Level Difference (PLD) but anythings else that distinguishes it from the character's Power Level works.

 

Other than this, just wanted to thank you for your post. It was very useful and helped me to better understand some of the stuff I was seeing and thought of (erroneously) as bugged.

Edited October 4, 2018 by kmbogd

[thelee]

I noticed some weirdness with traps so I did a little bit of research and updated the OP.

 

For those who don't want to dig into the OP just to see what's new, here's what I added:

 

 

 

Traps: are weird~! They do their own thing when it comes to PL scaling. First, each point of Mechanics gives a +3 accuracy bonus to traps when they trigger. However, for each of your character levels, it gets a bonus PL, except this PL scaling does not affect damage, they only affect penetration, accuracy, and duration (this may be related to an issue where spells that create "hazard" effects do not do correct damage that scales with stats/abilities). Interestingly, trap duration is not affected by intellect, but trap accuracy is affected by perception. So a level 12 character with 10 mechanics would get a +30 accuracy bonus from mechanics, then another +12 accuracy from PL scaling (listed as an "ability level" bonus in the combat log). Then, if it's a trap with a duration, it gets +60% to duration, and if it's a trap with a penetration value, it gets +3.25 (rounds to 3.3 in display). Anyhoo, this effectively means that for people who keep using traps late game, they will primarily be useful for their debuffs (sorry, caltrops trap).

 

 

Monastic Unarmed Training: is also weird! I did my research in a separate thread dedicated to fists.

Edited October 25, 2018 by thelee

[thelee]

I wonder why hasn't this thread been pinned. The OP does a good job explaining one of the more convoluted mechanics that is nowhere documented (especially for martial abilities).

 

later edit: @thelee

 

I've seen that there has been a change in the system, perhaps during patch 3.0. Now the ability level penetration scaling is (AbilityLevel-1)x2x0.25

 

Also I wanted to make a suggestion. I've seen that you use the term Power Level to refer to 3 different things, this creates a bit of confusion.Of course if you understand already how the system works it's easy to see to which of the 3 things you are referring when talking about Power Level in a certain context. However, for the people that don't already know the system it will be easier if you differentiate between the 3.

 

The first concept that I would suggest that you rename in your explanation is the principle of Ability Level instead of saying Power Level (in the context of an ability). I think this is a fitting name already used by the game. There is indeed a correlation between Ability Levels and character's Power Levels in that in the general case an ability becomes accessible to a character only when character's Power Level reaches at least the Ability Level. From this stems probably the reason for you naming these 2 concepts with the same name. But like you have very well exemplified with VileThorns, this is not always the case. Another difference is that during the game the PowerLevel (of a character) increases but that of the AbilityLevel always stays the same.

 

The second concept that needs to be made less confusing in my opinion is that of scaling difference (between a character's Power Level and the Ability Level of the spell/martial_ability he/she is trying to use). Calling this concept also Power Level is ambiguous. I would suggest Power Level Difference (PLD) but anythings else that distinguishes it from the character's Power Level works.

 

Other than this, just wanted to thank you for your post. It was very useful and helped me to better understand some of the stuff I was seeing and thought of (erroneously) as bugged.

 

hey, sorry i missed this post when you first made it. a couple things: the guide already mentioned that abilities get .5 pen per ability level. and i try to be clear between ability level and power level because they're different things.

 

but you're right it's a bit confusing, and i probably could go through the original post with another editing pass. part of the confusion is also because the game itself is inconsistent about calling it "power level" or "ability level" in the combat log, because sometimes things that are very clearly "power level"-based scaling get counted as "ability level." when i have some more time i'll try to make things clearer.

[Boeroer]

Bonus question: the Fool's shoes from the Deck of Many Things "increase the efficiency of traps". What does that mean?

[Prince of Lies]

+25% Damage and +25% Affliction  Duration.

 

 

 

            "$type": "Game.GameData.StatusEffectGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
            "DebugName": "LAXD_Prankster_SE_TrapEffectiveness",
            "ID": "b1b2cbdd-81c0-45cf-a89b-1496bd6eec60",
            "Components": [
                {
                    "$type": "Game.GameData.StatusEffectComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
                    "StatusEffectType": "TrapBonusDamageOrDurationPercentMult",
                    "OverrideDescriptionString": -1,
                    "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
                    "BaseValue": 1.25,
                    "DynamicValue": {
                        "Stat": "None",
                        "SkillDataID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
                        "ClassID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
                        "MultiplyBy": 1,
                        "Operator": "Add"

 

 

 

Still not super great.

 

I didn't realize this, but traps normally also get +3 Acc/Mechanics, +1 Acc/Character Level, +1 Acc/PL (traps "cast" at +1PL, btw), +/-1 Acc for each point above/below 10 Perception, and +.25 Pen/PL.

 

Shame damage and the amount of traps you can set doesn't scale.

 

Edit: Ack, didn't see that Thelee had already noted those mechanics. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Prince of Lies

[Boeroer]

Thanks!

 

Meh, no bonus PEN, no ACC.

[Prince of Lies]

They can Crit.

 

Might even overpen a xaurip or two. 

[Boeroer]

You mean the ones that drop from blowing in their direction? Hooray!

[hansvedic]

Quick question regarding Power Level and spells that apply damage multiple times (e.g. Relentless Storm) and damage over time spells (e.g. Touch of Rot): If I were to equip some +PL gear, cast such a spell, and then switch the gear I'm using, would the subsequent ticks/applications of damage use the PL I had when casting or my current PL?

 

Here's a couple examples to further illustrate my question:

1. Let's say I have Deltro's Cage and Lord Darryn's Voulge equipped, and I cast Relentless Storm. Relentless Storm hits enemies once, and then I switch to another weapon (or spiritshift). Will the subsequent hits of Relentless Storm use my current PL (w/o Lord Darryn's Voulge (and Deltro's Cage if Spiritshifted)), or the PL I had when casting?

EDIT: Just tested this one, and the PL does drop after spiritshift.

2. Let's say I have the Spine of Thicket Green w/ beasts upgrade, and I cast Plague of Insects. I then switch weapons or Spiritshift. Same question as above: what happens?

Edited November 11, 2018 by hansvedic

[guildwriter]

For those curious about crafting poisons and what can be done there, for each point of Alchemy you get 0.5 PL for Poison.  The benefits mirror what OP has given for general abilities (5% damage per point etc.)

 

It should be noted that when to hit calculations are done for poisons, the value listed in the description is generally what you see in the end result.  That means against Fortitude or Will, poisons get no additional bonuses to accuracy aside from global bonuses like from Assassinate.  [Testing has shown poisons benefit from Assasinate]

 

As a case study, at 20 Alchemy and a +2 PL from Spider Silk Robes, Storm Toxin has an Accuracy against Fortitude Check of 89.  Assuming a boss fight on POTD upscaled, unless you attack the defenses of the target in many cases the poison in question will either miss or graze (for reference, the Guardian of Ukaizo has a Fort of 143 and the recent slime megaboss has a Fort of 189).  Even on harder fights like the Ancient Fampyrs you should expect mostly grazes.

 

Feels like Obsidian threw down the nerf bat a bit too hard here.  

Edited November 23, 2018 by guildwriter

[pmchem]

Is the original post still fully correct and complete as of patch 4.1?  Great resource for new/returning players.

 

Thank you to people who worked on all this!

[Boeroer]

Still good as new.

[michel.montenegro]

How many points in skills, skills, etc.

A single class, and a multiclass receive in total?

Is it possible to have 35 points on 2 attributes? (It seems that 35 is the maximum, for example 35 INT)

 

Does the difficulty of monsters increase or decrease based on the number of characters?

Edited February 1, 2019 by michel.montenegro

[Gniel]

How does power level effect conjured weapons? Increased damage, summon duration, penetration?

[thelee]

How does power level effect conjured weapons? Increased damage, summon duration, penetration?

 

it only affects the duration. (yes, it's lame, compared to the scaling some other abilities get)

 

conjured weapons have a separate scaling factor based on your character level:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/227477-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire/faqs/76599/non-pl-scaling

[Boeroer]

And keep in mind that those weapons can be used with all weapon based abilites that scale with Power Level (FoD, Cripplling Strike, you name it). If they would scale their dmg/pen/acc with char level AND Power Level AND the ability scaling they would be totally broken.

[thelee]

And keep in mind that those weapons can be used with all weapon based abilites that scale with Power Level (FoD, Cripplling Strike, you name it). If they would scale their dmg/pen/acc with char level AND Power Level AND the ability scaling they would be totally broken.

 

that is true. +5% for pure durational effects is still pretty lame, though, even with possible double-layering. Given that you can get +2 acc/PL if there's not much else to gain, a +10% per PL duration scaling when duration is the only that is present seems better. though the ship has long sailed on this i think.

[Toverkol]

I was wondering if you did any research on the Spell Shaping passive ability that many casters can get?

 

First thing i'm thinking is how much power level does it actually add/subtract - just 1? 

 

And if it's just 1 it seems to me there are some very clear-cut answers as to what shape to pick - if healing spells and priest buffs like (Dire) Blessing only lose 5% healing or 5% duration doesnt that mean that the bigger area is almost always the right choice?

 

How would you view the ability for offensive spells - ie when would you think the extra acc/pen/dmg is worth it over an extra target?

[thelee]

I was wondering if you did any research on the Spell Shaping passive ability that many casters can get?

 

First thing i'm thinking is how much power level does it actually add/subtract - just 1? 

 

And if it's just 1 it seems to me there are some very clear-cut answers as to what shape to pick - if healing spells and priest buffs like (Dire) Blessing only lose 5% healing or 5% duration doesnt that mean that the bigger area is almost always the right choice?

 

How would you view the ability for offensive spells - ie when would you think the extra acc/pen/dmg is worth it over an extra target?

 

Spellshaping adds +1 for a smaller aoe and does -5 for a larger AoE. The "always right choice" angle is why the penalty is asymmetrically severe vs the possible bonus.

[Elric Galad]

I've made an interesting find :

Upgraded abilities usually use their new PL for scaling. A PL1 ability with a PL3 upgrade will usually count as PL3 and thus will only benefit from PL above 3.
However, there are some exceptions to that rule. It does make a difference, but not so much because usually there are a couple of PL difference between the initial ability and the upgraded one.

Both Barbarian Shout-line and Frenzy-line do apply the initial PL1 though. And that makes a HUGE difference since their ultimate upgrades are PL7 and PL9.
It is basically a +30% and +40% bonus to the PL scaling of these abilities.
Now I understand better why Spirit Tornado and Driving Roar are my Favorites Barbs abilities  

Edited May 13, 2019 by Elric Galad

[Ivanfyodorovich]

Even better, some benefit from the higher ability level when calculating AL bonuses, even though they scale power level based on the original. E.g. Sacred  Immolation upgrades give +4 Accuracy and +1 Penetration without lowering PL scaling. 

[Boeroer]

On 5/13/2019 at 8:47 PM, Elric Galad said:

I've made an interesting find :

Upgraded abilities usually use their new PL for scaling. A PL1 ability with a PL3 upgrade will usually count as PL3 and thus will only benefit from PL above 3.
However, there are some exceptions to that rule. It does make a difference, but not so much because usually there are a couple of PL difference between the initial ability and the upgraded one.

Both Barbarian Shout-line and Frenzy-line do apply the initial PL1 though. And that makes a HUGE difference since their ultimate upgrades are PL7 and PL9.
It is basically a +30% and +40% bonus to the PL scaling of these abilities.
Now I understand better why Spirit Tornado and Driving Roar are my Favorites Barbs abilities  

I often said that Driving Roar does bonkers damage and is awesome. I looked at the base numbers and didn't know why. I assumed I must have landed crits a lot.

Now I know better. Thanks for sharing that info! 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Boeroer

[Phenomenum]

Power Level for all Upgrades, that substitutes "parent" ability, is counting from "parent" ability PL. Power Level of all Upgrades, that NOT substitutes "parent" ability (Ranger's Hobbling Shot for example) is counting independently. Simple.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Phenomenum