Your Tiers List [Classes/Subclasses] v.2

[Arnegar]

Priest is just such an awful class. Devotions for the Faithful is an overpowered spell, but that's pretty much the only thing of any value that priests get. Their healing is garbage, most of their buffs are either single-target or have such a tiny AoE that they aren't usable, and they don't get enough fast-casting spells. I end up taking a priest along just for DftF and the Arcane Veil that Wael priests get, and the rest of the character is just the other half of its multiclass. Now and then I'll cast Suppress Affliction as well but it's not enough to count.

[omegazen]

Hands down God Tier for being OP, and S Tier for fun: My Evocation Moon Godlike WIzard.

 

Empowered Minoletta's Missiles, 3rd or 4th tier. RIP entire groups of enemies because it's AOE. Honestly makes most battles really easy. Any aoe or chain skill like Chain Lightning or fireball being empowered is crazy dps. I still have yet to get to the final level spells, I'm still playing it through.

 

Insane CC spells with pretty decent AOE (and Arkemyr's Capricious Hex that fill the entire screen!) that cause fear, petrify, confusion, lower defenses...etc

[Eneka]

evoker alone is good choice?

[theBalthazar]

The only way to "repair" the priest is his main function tradditionnaly :

 

AoE Inspirations.

 

But WTF now it is only 1 target for the majority of cases. Trully Awful indeed.

 

Actually there Might inspiration level 1 If team is at... 2 cm of the priest : p

 

Dire blessing is good but it is the only really noticeable.

 

And why not a function for single target. Ok you SUPPRESS affliction with an inspiration. But because this is specific and there is only one target : the effect re-applie again shorter after. Sort of afterglow effect. With that we have :

 

1) Single target inspiration with an afterglow effect.

2) AoE Inspiration like dire blessing and new creations (Might / Resolve / Dexterity ?).

 

This afterglow effect can be a reason to create a new passive like :

 

Afterglow - 50 % chance to reapplie an inspiration 3 seconds later after a counter (Inspiration kill an affliction).

 

--------------------------

 

Secondly, why not an evolutive core ability with BUFF like disciplined strike, lightning strike via HOLY RADIANCE :

 

Berath : +4 accuracy (Level 20 : + 8 )

Skaen : 10 % of damage when there is an affliction (Level 20 : 14 %)

Magran : 6 % of fire damage (Level 20 : 10 %)

Wael : 6 % of ice damage (Level 20 : 10 %)

Eothas : +4 to all defenses (Level 20 : + 8 )

 

Level 1 + 4 steps[5 ; 10 ; 15 ; 20] = 4 levels of upgrade.

 

1 pt each level. Easy.

 

All of this for 10 seconds, like the first Pillars.

 

If we are crazy, we applie this on the team (holy radiance...). Priest go back high tiers. And everybody is happy.

 

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Edited May 17, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Elric Galad]

I know that subclasses are very appealing but I think we should also wonder whether base class are Ok (except for priest and paladin of course and animist is basically druid's base class).

 

For example generalist wizz is arguably better, but base chanter is arguably worse than beckoner (and maybe troubadour) for almost every build.

[evilcat]

The only way to "repair" the priest is his main function tradditionnaly :

 

AoE Inspirations.

 

--------------------------

 

Secondly, why not an evolutive core ability with BUFF like disciplined strike, lightning strike via HOLY RADIANCE :

 

Berath : +4 accuracy (Level 20 : + 8 )

Skaen : 10 % of damage when there is an affliction (Level 20 : 14 %)

Magran : 6 % of fire damage (Level 20 : 10 %)

Wael : 6 % of ice damage (Level 20 : 10 %)

Eothas : +4 to all defenses (Level 20 : + 8 )

 

 

-------------------------

This is something i like. Priest Holy Radiance is unimpresive.

I am generally against nerfs, since if OE nerfs every fun class/combo the game will not be better after that. So buffs:

 

Double Pooling, it is better to have two pools of 2x9 than 1x11. You can just hit more, and classes like fighter/rogue generally do similar thing (dps).

Solution:

At power level 8th and 9th add passive Zeal Master/Grandmastery providing +3 of your favorite pool. MC cant get that.

Priest.Druid, Wizard all have passives at each power level +1 spell use of that level of this class. So yes, you can dump 9 points to cast 3 spells of each level, but you will have poorer spells selection.

 

More neutral passives at level 1. Since sometimes our class abilities at level are like 2 of them , and we can pick 2 total (not much choice for fighter). Or they suck. Or dont fit our glorious idea. So at least could pick stuff like Toughness, Weapon specialization or something defensive.

 

More Neutral Passives which are not very powerful. Could be version of clas passive just worse. If you play Priest you could sink 28 points into spells, and end with nice selection. But you still gonna cast 18 of that. So being able to sink spare points in combat style or mode defenses or extra belt slots is better than extra spell which i would not even cast.

[omegazen]

Xoti is doing a sweet job for me as a pure priest. Idk about muticlassing but Priest is probably better alone. She has ok CC but even nicer buffs+debuff stacking. The AOE is good enough on a lot of spells to hit at least 3 enemies in melee range. Priest definitely should have gear that improves her cast speed.

 

 

Lvl 1: Interdiction, Restore (never had to use these that much later, they were good early)

Lvl 2: Pillar of Faith, Repulsing Seal for kncokdowns, Iconic Projection

Lvl 3: Despondent Blows (always great to cast at start of battle, I never don't cast it with Circle of Protection), Consecrated Ground+Watchful Presence if I ever need sustain for the entire fight.

lvl 4: CIrcle of Protection, Shining Beacon, Devotion for the Faithful

lvl 5: Champion's Boon, Revive (low priority but still decent)

lvl 6: Spiritual Ally, Pillar of Holy Fire (give her some kick If I want her to dps more)

lvl 7: Anything is good. Besides maybe Storm of Holy fire because it hits Allies too

lvl 8&9: OP

 

Just what I have on my first playthrough and seems to help me breeze through any fight.

Edited May 17, 2018 by omegazen

[ErlKing]

Idea / suggestion:

 

I think minor fire shield on Darcozzi Paladini is a complete miss. I see Darcozzi Paladini as a pun throwing smartass, someone like Harry Dresden. I would prefer another ability tweak instead of highly situational flame shield.

 

"Sworn Enemy" into "Swearing enemy" - mocking marked enemy makes it harder for target to focus on anyone besides Paladin.

Additional effect: Marked enemy have -20 Accuracy vs everyone except Paladin.

 

Idea is that Darcozzi Paladini still focus on protecting his allies, but does so by making enemies focusing on him. Teammate gets beaten by backstabbing assassin - mark him, making it harder for enemy to kill your fragile wizard. Group is facing strong AoE nuker, like dragon or sorcerer - mark him and AoE spells would hit only Paladin in full effect, making it easier for teammates to evade.

[Luvsucklonewolf]

as for monks Nalpazca are best hands down.

Helwalker is good for ranged builds.

 

See, Naplazca gets wounds for free basically, you make him an alchemist, and later on drugs give insane bonuses and last over 10 minutes, when you drug crash, you just use a drug once more, and it clears it while giving you another 800 seconds +10  to stats or whatever

There is also a necklace that looks like weed pipe, that gives you a white leaf effect after rest although it counts as having 1 in alchemy, but still its basically beter then  fighter regen for 1 hardtack.

In easier fights, you don't need to even use drugs.

 

Really, there are no downsides in Nalpazca, make him your alchemy guy for the party, buy some drugs and thats it.

To clear a dungeon, you use 1 or sometimes 2 drugs on POTD, with pipe neclase  you just rest inbetween fights, and you get to spam abilities all the time.

 

 

Shattered pillar is i feel the worst, even from no subclass, because its easier to get wounds from taking damage than dealing, also things like a force of anguish, or blade turning are "o ****" abilities, that are best used when you get spiked, and if you get spiked you get no wounds as SP. Maybe for a niche  build, that focuses on spamming torments reach, but having a 5 wound limit is also a huge drawback, and Nalpazca is swimming in wounds, so even then its better for that build also.

 

 

 

My char is a naplazca/skald, really powerful.

lightning ability is really good when upgraded, and you have 3 or more guys next to you, you could get over 100 damage to each of them in an instant, paralyze is better when not upgraded, and  for my char its enabler for crits, a tornado is good when there are 2 or 3 enemies left and spread apart, weakness chant is also good.

Also dont forget that chanters  get their maximum phrases depending on your highest costing one, so as a skald its good to pick up something non ofensive later on, so you get 7 phrases limit

 

How do you spent your attribute?

[Climhazzard]

Naplazca is definitely the best monk, but imo it's a pain in the ass to manage.  I've played both Shattered pillar and Naplazca to high levels now, when it comes to steady wounds generation Shattered Pillar wins pretty easy.  Having a lower wounds cap isn't even a downside if you can pump out raised torment fast enough to stunlock enemies.  I still think Naplazca is the best monk due to the incredible stat boosts from drugs, but even with the soul void amulet I'll probably never play one again.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Climhazzard

[theBalthazar]

Because you must manage drugs ?

 

I think ONE naplazca can be useful in the team. More... Perhaps too costly in money and time.

[divjak]

Naplazca is definitely the best monk, but imo it's a pain in the ass to manage.  I've played both Shattered pillar and Naplazca to high levels now, when it comes to steady wounds generation Shattered Pillar wins pretty easy.  Having a lower wounds cap isn't even a downside if you can pump out raised torment fast enough to stunlock enemies.  I still think Naplazca is the best monk due to the incredible stat boosts from drugs, but even with the soul void amulet I'll probably never play one again.

 

thing is that you dont need to use drugs for easy fights, you still get wounds when damaged, and with that monk shield on, its pretty easy to have wounds to spend, and can always use mortification  abilities

I would basically use drugs  only in situations  i  knew it would be harder.

 

 

Shattered pillar sucks,  for turning wheel, the fact you need to do damage for wound, and your  attacks can miss, and the fact that some of the wound spenders are defensive, force of anguish, blade turning, and they are best used if you get under pressure. You can do damage to one enemy at once, while more enemies can damage you in the same time, so its easier to get wounds by taking damage

 

Shattered pillar is basically one trick pony, for casting torment reach

 

Imo Nalpazca is best overall, helwalker for ranged builds, and builds that can stack lots  of defences, then no subclass monk, and worst is shattered pillar  

Edited May 19, 2018 by divjak

[Climhazzard]

Blade turning sucks for Shattered Pillar, I'll give you that.  The rest of the abilities are fine though.

[divjak]

Blade turning sucks for Shattered Pillar, I'll give you that.  The rest of the abilities are fine though.

turning wheel, can only give you 5 int , and +25% fire lash, or the other side of the tree 1.5 armor and  5 con.

I usually get both,  and switch depending on need to tank or need to dps

 

Its one  of the stronger monk talents, and it's basically useless for SP, since you built him for torment spam, which IMO I never used for  spam, but rather stun( for which you need  to  micromanage positioning which can be quite annoying), and found  that just auto attacking with weapons that have good enchant is better for  single target damage   

Edited May 19, 2018 by divjak

[Climhazzard]

Raised torment spam is great crowd control, you can set the AI to "greatest number of enemies" and it will do a decent job of stunning all kinds of things if you'd rather not do it yourself.  You're just using turning wheel for a 25% fire lash....   SP uses their 4-5 wounds worth of turning wheel to constantly CC enemies, I don't really see how that's worse than a 25% fire lash on your auto attack.

[divjak]

Raised torment spam is great crowd control, you can set the AI to "greatest number of enemies" and it will do a decent job of stunning all kinds of things if you'd rather not do it yourself.  You're just using turning wheel for a 25% fire lash....   SP uses their 4-5 wounds worth of turning wheel to constantly CC enemies, I don't really see how that's worse than a 25% fire lash on your auto attack.

 

 

because you have weapons with stacking bonuses, modals that can lower defences and so on , i was multiclassed with chanter, and had paralysis, so torments reach was like a red-headed child, and was not that reliable i found. 

 

Thing is, i think the plain monk is better than SP, because gaining wounds is not difficult if you go into bunch of enemies, and with that monk shield that gets you a additional wound  for any damage you take in meele.

Naplazca is plain monk on stereoids, pun intended, so its head and shoulders above the  rest.

Helwalker tho works best for ranged caster multiclass, or evem mele wizard MC when you get your  arcane veils and stuff    

Edited May 19, 2018 by divjak

[rheingold]

Gotta say that I am a tad unimpressed with my ranged rogue/cipher at the moment. The rogue bit is fine, the cipher seems a waste though. Had a black jacket rogue also with pistols and it just did the damage part so much better, and was far more survivable.

The cipher just doesn't bring much. I think what really hurts them is only been able to select a handful of powers. Other caster classes can get away with it because their spells are powerful, but a cipher has always relied on a few tricks; damage from soulwip, and the ability to cast various spells all the time. Their spells haven't really been increased in power to adjust for the fact that they only have a limited selection. Increasing the spells available would also help immensely.

[evilcat]

I am unimpressed by Xoti Priest power. Mostly the Priest part. There is no abillites i could pick for her as level up. Sometimes Gaun spells are not that bad, or there is one spell i gonna use alot. So that is 9 points. What i am supposed to do with rest of 28? I even pick all defenses saves.

The worst part is that if she could be Pries/Chanter or Priest/Paladin she would be fine.

Just priest dont have where to put points.

 

There is problem with Ranger, that pet bear cant bear armour or dueal wield legendary sabres.

Pet passives all could be twice as powerful to overcome lack of items.

It is very important to make pet somehow resilent with OP abilitties. Since if pet dies in contact with enemy it deals 0 dmg. And there are no defensive pet passive in sufficient amount.

Ranged pet (wyrmling) would be (cute) nice since, it would die far less.

Edited May 19, 2018 by evilcat

[Clerith]

Tier list, huh? It's complex because of all the multiclasses, but I'd go about it like this, for combat effectiveness:

 

1) Pure monk, pure chanter - both are op in their own way

2) Martial multiclasses (any of fighter, paladin, barbarian, soulblade, can mix chanter and monk in too)

3) Pure wizard (stronger than martial multiclasses at high level, but much weaker at low levels)

 

These would be in the strong category. Then for the mediocre:

 

4) Rogue, solo or any multiclass, while there is rogue/paladin build that's good, it's kinda gimmicky. Pure rogue is good at high levels, but rogue abilities are overcosted.

5) Pure fighter, paladin, berserker - okay, these are arguably stronger than rogue, but multiclassing just makes all of them SO much better.

6) Cipher casters - weak early game, a few insane gimmicks late game.

7) Druid - I was really disappointed by druid, well by Tekehu. Druids are flexible, but seemed nerfed in every way from Pillars 1.

 

Then the weaker:

 

8 ) Priest: what happened to spells beyond 4th tier? All garbage, you say? Well, there are a few good ones, but wow, talk about a nerf. Honestly, I think I still want one in a party because of the aoe buffs and aoe heals, but not a strong 'solo class' in a vacuum.

9) Ranger - what a garbage class. I'm sure you can make it work if you want, though.

 

...I think I'm mostly echoing common sentiments here.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Clerith

[cactot]

7) Druid - I was really disappointed by druid, well by Tekehu. Druids are flexible, but seemed nerfed in every way from Pillars 1.

 

Tekehu is amazing IMHO. Foe only chill fog is worth the price of admission alone, and he has solid foe only nukes and debuffs too. Combine that with the fact that Druids are arguably the best healers in the game with long lasting large area heal over time spells, and you have an extremely useful companion.

 

Sure there are some ridiculous combos that make the healing unnecessary (like the +healing chant with fighter heal on damage taken ability), but if you don't feel like abusing those (or the combo hadn't come on line yet) Tekehu is a MVP caliber companion. At the VERY end of the game multiclass Tekehu might come out ahead because of the huge power spike chanters get at power level 6 and 7, but for 75% of the game pure druid Tekehu is as good or better than MC Tekehu.

[ArenCordial]

After finishing the game I feel like Cipher needs a second look.   Its just an out of place class atm.

In PoE1 it was a strong because in a world of per day casters, it could give great control on a per encounter basis.  Combined with PoE1's health system that encouraged you to not only beat an encounter but to do so without draining too much of your resources, a Cipher was a great asset.  (Assuming you weren't abusing the rest system).   Sure the per rest classes took the cake if they spent a lot of resources but over the course of the day, a Cipher could provide a ton of damage, control, and mitigation.  However in PoE2 both of these consideration are thrown out the window with health regen and per encounter abilities.  

Cipher in PoE2 basically feels like the only active abilities worth anything are the Charms/Dominates, Amplified Wave, and Time Parasite.  Only Time Parasite is something you need to remain single class for.  Everything else is passive.   Its abilities are poorly thought out.  You can spend 90 focus to hobble and terrify 1 enemy or you could spend a third of that to dominate them and get them to fight for you.   Spend a little more focus and use Ringleader and you can get multiple enemies to fight for you.

Of course the lack of tuning of the difficulties make a lot of powers useless as well.  Stasis Shield was a power that was great in PoE1 for taking out a tough enemy to dispatch minions.  There's hardly a point to do so in Deadfire.

TLDR;  Cipher feels like a relic for PoE1's systems and not the changes that came in Deadfire.
 

[baldurs_gate_2]

It's only interesting, whats the best class, throughout the game, so you have solo a easy time and not when you get lvl 9 power level or a party, where no fight is a problem.

[Crumbleton]

So for me I've been having a lot of fun with my seer (soul blade + stalker)

 

Been using a 2h the whispering endless paths to get the AoE effect since it let's me actually have some aoe on my attacks

 

With marked target and stalkers link I get +20 accuracy for annihilation which is pretty great since dumping your focus and missing is pretty ****ty. Wounding shot gives you fairly reliable damage and the 50% increase from the dot for your pet.

Also being using aeloths laden key helm for the flanking damage and more accuracy, being able to use ectopsychic on your pet is nice too.

[theBalthazar]

Tiers list – Full Game - Patch 1.1 - Until level 20

 

Decision : 60 % on single class / 40 % on multiclass

 

TOP TIERS

 

Bleak walker (Paladin)

Goldpact knights (Paladin)

Berserker (Barbarian)

Kind wayfarers (Paladin)

Troubadour (Chanter)

 

HIGH TIERS

 

Skald (Chanter)

Shieldbearer of St Elcga (Paladin)

Nalpazca (Monk)

Base Chanter

Darcozzi Paladini (Paladin)

Helwalker (Monk)

Shattered pillar (Monk)

Assassin (Rogue) UP !

 

MID TIERS

 

Sharpshooter (Ranger) UP !

Base ranger UP ! [EDIT]

Base Rogue UP !

Wizard (Evoker) UP !

Base Wizard UP !

Base barbarian

Base Monk

Street fighter (Rogue)

Base Druid

Fury (Druid)

Devoted (Fighter) DOWN !

Stalker (Ranger) UP !

Ghost heart (Ranger) UP !

Beckoner (Chanter) DOWN ! [EDIT]

Lifegiver (Druid)

Soul blade (Cipher) DOWN !

Shifter (Druid)

Ascendant (Cipher)

Unbroken (Fighter) DOWN !

Base Fighter DOWN !

 

LOW TIERS

 

Mage slayer (Barbarian)

Trickster (Rogue)

Black jacket (Fighter) DOWN !

All priest DOWN !

Corpse eater (Barbarian)

Beguiler (Cipher)

Base Cipher

All others spe wizard

Edited June 4, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Clerith]

Did you reall just rate Shieldbearers (best Paladin, death immunity for a good while) in the same tier as Darcozzi (situational and mediocre flame shield) in the same tier? Shieldbearers and Bleak Walkers were the go-to Paladin orders, and 1.1 nerfed Bleak Walkers but left Shieldbearer immortality untouched, afaik?

 

Base Wizard is also high tier at least.

 

Paladin (Shieldbearer)/multiclass, Monk, Wizard, Berserker/multiclass are top tier if you ask me.