Your Tiers List [Classes/Subclasses] v.2

[theBalthazar]

The most important thing is the area. Shieldbearer is not in the trash tiers : He is in the high tiers and I put it on the top. The rest is detail of few places up or down : p

 

Base wizard I agree with you but, not everytime in the game. At the start he is extremely poor. At the end yes. So = average = High mid tiers.

Edited June 3, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Clerith]

True, Wizard sucks early. It's kinda traditional, I'm very used to it. I'll allow it.

 

It's always challenging to make tier lists if you consider the average of low, mid and high levels, and how impactful those stages are. For example, a class that is powerful early but becomes mediocre later could be considered top-tier by some (early game is the hardest, nothing matters everything is op later) and mid-tier by others (early game is over fast, power peak at high levels is the true power where classes should be rated).

 

Wizard is something that is worth raising early and with a good build blooms early mid-game and completely destroys late-game, which makes it top-tier for me, even with the weak start. But the same weak start will definitely make some people rate it high-tier at best, and mid-tier if they don't know how to play it, but that's another bag of worms.

[Maxzero]

Tiers list – Full Game - Patch 1.1 - Until level 20

 

Decision : 60 % on single class / 40 % on multiclass

 

TOP TIERS

 

Bleak walker (Paladin)

Goldpact knights (Paladin)

Berserker (Barbarian)

Kind wayfarers (Paladin)

Troubadour (Chanter)

 

HIGH TIERS

 

Skald (Chanter)

Shieldbearer of St Elcga (Paladin)

Nalpazca (Monk)

Beckoner (Chanter) 

Base Chanter

Darcozzi Paladini (Paladin)

Helwalker (Monk)

Shattered pillar (Monk)

Assassin (Rogue) UP !

 

MID TIERS

 

Sharpshooter (Ranger) UP !

Base Rogue UP !

Wizard (Evoker) UP !

Base Wizard UP !

Base barbarian

Base Monk

Street fighter (Rogue)

Base Druid

Fury (Druid)

Devoted (Fighter) DOWN !

Stalker (Ranger) UP !

Ghost heart (Ranger) UP !

Lifegiver (Druid)

Soul blade (Cipher) DOWN !

Shifter (Druid)

Ascendant (Cipher)

Unbroken (Fighter) DOWN !

Base Fighter DOWN !

 

LOW TIERS

 

Mage slayer (Barbarian)

Trickster (Rogue)

Black jacket (Fighter) DOWN !

All priest DOWN !

Corpse eater (Barbarian)

Beguiler (Cipher)

Base Cipher

All others spe wizard

 

Beckoner is dead.

 

24 seconds between Skeleton casts. They last like 12.

 

At higher levels it just gets worse. It's actually worse at summoning then it is are using other Invocations.

[theBalthazar]

At higher levels it just gets worse. It's actually worse at summoning then it is are using other Invocations.

 

 

True, I correct that. It is a mistake.

[Ganrich]

I'd bump Street Fighter up on that list. It's harder to stay bloodied in the new PotD, but it isnt hard at all to remain flanked. So, your still attacking fast, doing 50% extra on sneak attack, and now add in that extra damage on rogue Active and you are hitting really hard. Plus, its a good class for Riposte build and stack deflection, and it can punish disengagement like no other rogue. Maybe there is some negatives that I am not seeing, though.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Ganrich

[ErlKing]

I'd bump Street Fighter up on that list. It's harder to stay bloodied in the new PotD, but it isnt hard at all to remain flanked. So, your still attacking fast, doing 50% extra on sneak attack, and now add in that extra damage on rogue Active and you are hitting really hard. Plus, its a good class for Riposte build and stack deflection, and it can punish disengagement like no other rogue. Maybe there is some negatives that I am not seeing, though.

If you throw firecracker on your streetfighter it will keep him and all nearby enemies flanked for 25+ seconds (+explosives skill and int). Also, there are gloves that give 2 casts of firecrackers per rest. Firecracker craft is pretty cheap and gives 3 bombs per 1 gunpowder, solution and some grass.

[Ganrich]

 

I'd bump Street Fighter up on that list. It's harder to stay bloodied in the new PotD, but it isnt hard at all to remain flanked. So, your still attacking fast, doing 50% extra on sneak attack, and now add in that extra damage on rogue Active and you are hitting really hard. Plus, its a good class for Riposte build and stack deflection, and it can punish disengagement like no other rogue. Maybe there is some negatives that I am not seeing, though.

If you throw firecracker on your streetfighter it will keep him and all nearby enemies flanked for 25+ seconds (+explosives skill and int). Also, there are gloves that give 2 casts of firecrackers per rest. Firecracker craft is pretty cheap and gives 3 bombs per 1 gunpowder, solution and some grass.

 

Also, Blunderbuss modal gets you flanked too.  I usually just used Blunderbuss modal to start, and got in the thick of it in order to get flanked for real. 

[Veolfen]

There should be a split between potential as single class and as multiclass for the tierlist i think.

Since i'm one of the voices for the fighter on this forum, here's an exemple :

After the patch he will be decent/mid tier as a secondary class Unbroken/Devoted

But will be a low tier as a single class.


Anyway thanks for taking your time doing this listing and updating it with patches.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Veolfen

[theBalthazar]

Nerf, nerf nerf of 1.1... Yes but talking of ...boosts !

Notes :

 

Barbarian

 

* Lack of Active Abilities. Barbarian have a lot of false connection (Choices of tree etc.). But in fact, there too few active abilities. It is perhaps personnal feeling but... I don't know, not a lot of choice.

* Blood Surge. 25 % of chance to gain 1 ressource per kill... For a line 9... During this time, for paladin, and line 6...

* Heart of the fury. 4 ressources is FAR too much. Now ranger have 2 ressource for twinned arrow... So WTF ? [-> MIN 3 ressources...]

 

Paladin

 

* Sacred immolation. Without haxx strategies of barring death door and co., now 43 raw damage (without count +might), it is absolutely ridiculous. [-> 20 raw damage seems to be enough...]

* Exalted focus. OK I retry : p : 5 % of hit to crit = 2.5 % of true critic. No optimal player will take that if there is no boosts. [-> 10 % hit to crit]

* Exalted charge. Same debate. 10 % of hit to graze = 5 % of true efficiency (95 % of attacks are not concerned...). Don't worth 1 invested point [-> 20 % hit to graze]

* Blood frenzy. I am the only one who found that upgrade of frenzy are totally useless ? 4 damage is not crazy, so on crit, it is worst... [4 raw damage ON HIT]

 

Chanter

 

* Set to their purpose. Return to 5 phrases. Actually not worth it at 6 (Phrase+1 for only one addtionnal inspiration level 1 ?). But also return to inspiration L3 ! But ! With a modified version obviously. like -1 ressource cost, or per 6s or per 9s or a thing less powerful than pre-1.1 etc etc. [-> 5 phrases and/or return of Brilliant inspiration deeply modified]

* The dragon trashed. Intermediate position between now and POE1. Perhaps in the first, it was too much powerful ? OK. But now... Nobody will take that. [-> 6 burn damage, 6 slash damage, I start slowly...] 

 

Druid

 

* Relentless storm. Too much nerf = not usable. Chanter stay the king 8s+ of paralysed and stunned without interruption and... faster. Relentless is atually at 2s of stun per 6s with an average of 3s of stun per 6s with High INT. [-> 3s of stun per 6s, 4.5s with INT]

 

[Work in progress...]

Edited June 4, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Kaylon]

Tiers list – Full Game - Patch 1.1 - Until level 20

 

Decision : 60 % on single class / 40 % on multiclass

 

TOP TIERS

 

Bleak walker (Paladin)

Goldpact knights (Paladin)

Berserker (Barbarian)

Kind wayfarers (Paladin)

Troubadour (Chanter)

 

HIGH TIERS

 

Skald (Chanter)

Shieldbearer of St Elcga (Paladin)

Nalpazca (Monk)

Base Chanter

Darcozzi Paladini (Paladin)

Helwalker (Monk)

Shattered pillar (Monk)

Assassin (Rogue) UP !

 

MID TIERS

 

Sharpshooter (Ranger) UP !

Base Rogue UP !

Wizard (Evoker) UP !

Base Wizard UP !

Base barbarian

Base Monk

Street fighter (Rogue)

Base Druid

Fury (Druid)

Devoted (Fighter) DOWN !

Stalker (Ranger) UP !

Ghost heart (Ranger) UP !

Beckoner (Chanter) DOWN ! [EDIT]

Lifegiver (Druid)

Soul blade (Cipher) DOWN !

Shifter (Druid)

Ascendant (Cipher)

Unbroken (Fighter) DOWN !

Base Fighter DOWN !

 

LOW TIERS

 

Mage slayer (Barbarian)

Trickster (Rogue)

Black jacket (Fighter) DOWN !

All priest DOWN !

Corpse eater (Barbarian)

Beguiler (Cipher)

Base Cipher

All others spe wizard

Sorry but that list makes absolutely no sense. On what are based your rankings? DPS, survivability, burst damage, melee, ranged, solo, party, end game? Also what's the difference between top tiers and low tiers? And are we talking about builds or classes here, because if a class performs well only because of an item it should be mentioned.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Kaylon

[Maxzero]

True, Wizard sucks early. It's kinda traditional, I'm very used to it. I'll allow it.

 

It's always challenging to make tier lists if you consider the average of low, mid and high levels, and how impactful those stages are. For example, a class that is powerful early but becomes mediocre later could be considered top-tier by some (early game is the hardest, nothing matters everything is op later) and mid-tier by others (early game is over fast, power peak at high levels is the true power where classes should be rated).

 

Wizard is something that is worth raising early and with a good build blooms early mid-game and completely destroys late-game, which makes it top-tier for me, even with the weak start. But the same weak start will definitely make some people rate it high-tier at best, and mid-tier if they don't know how to play it, but that's another bag of worms.

 

I think it varies from game to game.

 

I think early game power matters a lot more in Deadfire because due to its open ended nature the vast majority of the content is aimed at the early to mid levels.

 

So if you are maxing some super dupa multi class that gets good at levels 17-19 by the time you reach that level the game is already over.

 

For me the only thing that keeps early game Wizard viable is Chill Fog and honestly Aloth can be a Chill Fog bot just fine (since they don't stack).

 

I think this early game favouring is even stronger in 1.1. The game gets super challenging super fast yet people who are loading up their old saves at levels 12-14+ are saying it does not feel much different.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Maxzero

[Crumbleton]

 

True, Wizard sucks early. It's kinda traditional, I'm very used to it. I'll allow it.

 

It's always challenging to make tier lists if you consider the average of low, mid and high levels, and how impactful those stages are. For example, a class that is powerful early but becomes mediocre later could be considered top-tier by some (early game is the hardest, nothing matters everything is op later) and mid-tier by others (early game is over fast, power peak at high levels is the true power where classes should be rated).

 

Wizard is something that is worth raising early and with a good build blooms early mid-game and completely destroys late-game, which makes it top-tier for me, even with the weak start. But the same weak start will definitely make some people rate it high-tier at best, and mid-tier if they don't know how to play it, but that's another bag of worms.

 

I think it varies from game to game.

 

I think early game power matters a lot more in Deadfire because due to its open ended nature the vast majority of the content is aimed at the early to mid levels.

 

So if you are maxing some super dupa multi class that gets good at levels 17-19 by the time you reach that level the game is already over.

 

For me the only thing that keeps early game Wizard viable is Chill Fog and honestly Aloth can be a Chill Fog bot just fine (since they don't stack).

 

I think this early game favouring is even stronger in 1.1. The game gets super challenging super fast yet people who are loading up their old saves at levels 12-14+ are saying it does not feel much different.

 

I will disagree with this, the early missile spells aren't that bad fireball is pretty strong too especially if you empower it.

 

I've been using aloth as a tank since the wizard buffs last a long time and he can still empower a spell to deal solid damage

[Maxzero]

 

 

True, Wizard sucks early. It's kinda traditional, I'm very used to it. I'll allow it.

 

It's always challenging to make tier lists if you consider the average of low, mid and high levels, and how impactful those stages are. For example, a class that is powerful early but becomes mediocre later could be considered top-tier by some (early game is the hardest, nothing matters everything is op later) and mid-tier by others (early game is over fast, power peak at high levels is the true power where classes should be rated).

 

Wizard is something that is worth raising early and with a good build blooms early mid-game and completely destroys late-game, which makes it top-tier for me, even with the weak start. But the same weak start will definitely make some people rate it high-tier at best, and mid-tier if they don't know how to play it, but that's another bag of worms.

 

I think it varies from game to game.

 

I think early game power matters a lot more in Deadfire because due to its open ended nature the vast majority of the content is aimed at the early to mid levels.

 

So if you are maxing some super dupa multi class that gets good at levels 17-19 by the time you reach that level the game is already over.

 

For me the only thing that keeps early game Wizard viable is Chill Fog and honestly Aloth can be a Chill Fog bot just fine (since they don't stack).

 

I think this early game favouring is even stronger in 1.1. The game gets super challenging super fast yet people who are loading up their old saves at levels 12-14+ are saying it does not feel much different.

 

I will disagree with this, the early missile spells aren't that bad fireball is pretty strong too especially if you empower it.

 

I've been using aloth as a tank since the wizard buffs last a long time and he can still empower a spell to deal solid damage

 

 

Yeah but if you multi (most people do) that starts at 7 and you only get 1 cast a fight (a second at 10). Will rely a lot on getting that +1 spell casting Grimoire. When you consider that PoE1 became easy at level 9 it's not really amazing.

[theBalthazar]

Sorry but that list makes absolutely no sense. On what are based your rankings? DPS, survivability, burst damage, melee, ranged, solo, party, end game? Also what's the difference between top tiers and low tiers? And are we talking about builds or classes here, because if a class performs well only because of an item it should be mentioned.

 

 

- Average between start and end-game.

- Average between single (60% of decision) and multi (40 % of decision). Even if, like say above, can be cool to separate because it not always the same thing. (Perhaps I will do that the next patch ?)

- Average of all tools, offensives, defensives, healing, armor, C.C., without particularly equipement except if it is totally related. (Like +1 PL for evocation.)

- Always party, for me. (If not Wizard-Monk would be highter)

- Tiers have no description. It is a feel of power with all the previous facts. Even if it is partially objective, all of this stay subjective, obviously. But you can see a "general" trend. Beguiler and Bleak walker will be never at the same tiers. It is obvious.

- All of this is not serious, I do that for fun, mainly for discussion arround classes/subclasses, more than for a real discuss to "yes wizard is one place under x or y." general trend !^^

- You can do a list you too, or give answer to the questions of my OP. No limit here.

Edited June 4, 2018 by theBalthazar

[ilfiniol]

Where did You place base ranger ?

[theBalthazar]

Base ranger was always here 

[ilfiniol]

Je ne le vois pas dans ta liste, seulement les 3 sous-classes.

[theBalthazar]

Je viens de le rajouter, c'était une boutade : p

 

EDIT : Et d'ailleurs puisqu'on parle français 5 secondes, le ranger serait très bien placé désormais dans le classement single class avec le twinned arrow de la gratuité totale.

 

Ils devraient faire pareille avec heart of the fury, pour récompenser des singles classes qui en ont bien besoin...

Edited June 4, 2018 by theBalthazar

[ilfiniol]

hmm... Hâte que ce patch passe en live...

[theBalthazar]

Nerf, nerf nerf of 1.1... Yes but talking of ...boosts !

 

Notes :

 

Barbarian

 

* Lack of Active Abilities. Barbarian have a lot of false connection (Choices of tree etc.). But in fact, there too few active abilities. It is perhaps personnal feeling but... I don't know, not a lot of choice.

* Blood Surge. 25 % of chance to gain 1 ressource per kill... For a line 9... During this time, for paladin, and line 6...

* Heart of the fury. 4 ressources is FAR too much. Now ranger have 2 ressource for twinned arrow... So WTF ? [-> MIN 3 ressources...]

 

Paladin

 

* Sacred immolation. Without haxx strategies of barring death door and co., now 43 raw damage (without count +might), it is absolutely ridiculous. [-> 20 raw damage seems to be enough...]

* Exalted focus. OK I retry : p : 5 % of hit to crit = 2.5 % of true critic. No optimal player will take that if there is no boosts. [-> 10 % hit to crit]

* Exalted charge. Same debate. 10 % of hit to graze = 5 % of true efficiency (95 % of attacks are not concerned...). Don't worth 1 invested point [-> 20 % hit to graze]

* Blood frenzy. I am the only one who found that upgrade of frenzy are totally useless ? 4 damage is not crazy, so on crit, it is worst... [4 raw damage ON HIT]

 

Chanter

 

* Set to their purpose. Return to 5 phrases. Actually not worth it at 6 (Phrase+1 for only one addtionnal inspiration level 1 ?). But also return to inspiration L3 ! But ! With a modified version obviously. like -1 ressource cost, or per 6s or per 9s or a thing less powerful than pre-1.1 etc etc. [-> 5 phrases and/or return of Brilliant inspiration deeply modified]

* The dragon trashed. Intermediate position between now and POE1. Perhaps in the first, it was too much powerful ? OK. But now... Nobody will take that. [-> 6 burn damage, 6 slash damage, I start slowly...] 

 

Second part....

 

Druid

 

* Relentless storm. Too much nerf = not usable. Chanter stay the king 8s+ of paralysed and stunned without interruption and... faster. Relentless is atually at 2s of stun per 6s with an average of 3s of stun per 6s with High INT. [-> 3s of stun per 6s, 4.5s with INT]

*Spirit****ing. With a transformation you lose all bonuses of items. (weapons etc.) So, the minimum is to supress the time of recovery of transformation. [-> Supress the 3 ? seconds of recovery with transformation]

 

* Create a special level (like knock up now which is not a real level of affliction) for PETRIFICATION. Actually, paralysed is 25 % of hit to crit ? Petrification return to the druid ONLY with 50 % hit to crit ! [-> Embrace of the earth talon : add a new ex-?affliction PETRIFICATION. 50 % hit to crit / OR damage x 2 / OR what you want]

 

Fighter

 

* Cleave stance. Take my idea of an another topic. Engagement become a stat which allow the same number of cleave. [-> Primary attack+No self-triggering. Engagement = number of attack of cleave stance. Continue to work even when engagement is broken, like one stand alone, in fact]

 

* Charge. Add a fixed amount of crush damage. No maximum damage and no primary attack this time. Because when you charge... difficult to imagine you don't do any damages... [-> 10-15 of crush damage]

 

Priest

 

* Devotion for the faithful. If obsidian don't want to broke actual stacking rules with active abilities (the case, sadly...) the best remain solution is to down the casting time of this new modified spell. Because now, it is only 4 of might and 5 of accuracy if there is somewhere a free and permanent zealous aura. It is not direct damage or not even an invocation. No special reason to stay at 4.5s... [-> 3s of casting time]

 

* Holy radiance. Need to be a better "lead in". With 2 Tree's choice, 2 new investment. [-> Choice 1 : Accuracy+5 on the team. Choice 2 : 15-20 Fire damage on all foes]

 

Ranger

 

* Concussive shot. WTF... need a boost of damage. Plus, this is only primary attack... [-> +20 % of crush damage minimum]

 

Rogue

 

* Withering strike. Good job globally for the patch 1.1 but... stay this ability... I don't understand the concept at this cost. And it NEED to be at 3 of ressources, because there is already tooo much 1 or 2 ressources before. So... [-> Base 50 % of damage ; 20 accuracy, stay on 3 guile]

 

Wizard

 

* Substancial/essential phantom. 6 seconds is far too much in the course of the fight. Generally you do that first at the beginning of the battle to enjoy a sort of damage overtime, and it is insanely long for only one invocation (VS 3 skelettons for 4.5s, which is already long at the start). [-> 5s of casting time]

Edited June 4, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Verde]

Having played one, Streetfighter is ok but an Assassin or general Rogue is very powerful and should be higher.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Verde

[AndreaColombo]

Speaking of buffs, Form of the Fearsome Brute and Citzal’s Enchanted Armory need help.

[dunehunter]

Tiers list – Full Game - Patch 1.1 - Until level 20

 

Decision : 60 % on single class / 40 % on multiclass

 

TOP TIERS

 

Bleak walker (Paladin)

Goldpact knights (Paladin)

Berserker (Barbarian)

Kind wayfarers (Paladin)

Troubadour (Chanter)

 

HIGH TIERS

 

Skald (Chanter)

Shieldbearer of St Elcga (Paladin)

Nalpazca (Monk)

Base Chanter

Darcozzi Paladini (Paladin)

Helwalker (Monk)

Shattered pillar (Monk)

Assassin (Rogue) UP !

 

MID TIERS

 

Sharpshooter (Ranger) UP !

Base ranger UP ! [EDIT]

Base Rogue UP !

Wizard (Evoker) UP !

Base Wizard UP !

Base barbarian

Base Monk

Street fighter (Rogue)

Base Druid

Fury (Druid)

Devoted (Fighter) DOWN !

Stalker (Ranger) UP !

Ghost heart (Ranger) UP !

Beckoner (Chanter) DOWN ! [EDIT]

Lifegiver (Druid)

Soul blade (Cipher) DOWN !

Shifter (Druid)

Ascendant (Cipher)

Unbroken (Fighter) DOWN !

Base Fighter DOWN !

 

LOW TIERS

 

Mage slayer (Barbarian)

Trickster (Rogue)

Black jacket (Fighter) DOWN !

All priest DOWN !

Corpse eater (Barbarian)

Beguiler (Cipher)

Base Cipher

All others spe wizard

 

Balthezar my friend, you have underestimated wizard too much

[1TTFFSSE]

Wizards are still sick as long as you can cast chill fog and buff yourself for days at low levels and cast meteors and fireballs later. 

 

People say they are weak at low level but all you have to do is like hast empowered chill fog at a choke point and put something like arcane veil on yourself. 

[Maxzero]

Wizards are still sick as long as you can cast chill fog and buff yourself for days at low levels and cast meteors and fireballs later. 

 

People say they are weak at low level but all you have to do is like hast empowered chill fog at a choke point and put something like arcane veil on yourself. 

 

I was one of them. Chillfog carries fights. I'ts only weakness is it's low Pen. Even then it still Blinds.

 

Blind is so strong Flanked and Acc and Perception debuff.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Maxzero