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[Level Scaling] [Difficulty] [POTD]Compilation Thread


anathanielh

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Hello,

 

I tried to search but I didn't find anything. So I made this thread.

 

I started the game as veteran and no level scalling, but I'm finding the combat too easy. It even became boring because I don't have to try to be sneaky or try to solve my problems talking because I can just stomp my way into everything. 

 

I'm killing everyone without dificulty even on 3 red skulls quests.

 

Since I'm already 34 hours in, I would like to know if there is a workaround to change the game to potd?

 

I know you can't do it with the regular option (sad), but maybe editing some game file?

 

Thanks for your help!

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Has anyone had a look at progressiontables.gamedatabundle and global.gamedatabundle to see if something gone awry with the level scaling?

 

What I've found so far is this in the progressiontables file:

"GameDataObjects": [{
			"$type": "Game.GameData.CharacterLevelScalingTableGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
			"DebugName": "CL-DefaultScalingRules",
			"ID": "311137d5-67c2-40ec-b21a-cf8dbd64ae1f",
			"Components": [{
					"$type": "Game.GameData.CharacterLevelScalingTableComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
					"ExpectedCharacterLevelAdjustments": [{
							"ExpectedDifferenceMin": -50,
							"ExpectedDifferenceMax": -2,
							"AdjustedLevelAmount": -1
						}, {
							"ExpectedDifferenceMin": -1,
							"ExpectedDifferenceMax": 1,
							"AdjustedLevelAmount": 0
						}, {
							"ExpectedDifferenceMin": 2,
							"ExpectedDifferenceMax": 2,
							"AdjustedLevelAmount": 1
						}, {
							"ExpectedDifferenceMin": 3,
							"ExpectedDifferenceMax": 50,
							"AdjustedLevelAmount": 2
						}
					]
				}
			]
		}

But I dunno what those numbers mean, perhaps someone with a bit more knowledge in JSON can shed some light on that?

 

---

 

Edit: Might as well add a screenshot of what I mean by scaling not working:

 

ges4ay3.png

 

Top box is my accuracy and the bottom box is my enemies deflection (which should be up-scaled to my level). If scaling would work then my enemy would have +45 deflection not +24 (I'm level 15 so 3x15=45).

Edited by Spherical

Editor and Designer
Enhanced User Interface
Nexus Mods | Steam Workshop

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Has anyone had a look at progressiontables.gamedatabundle and global.gamedatabundle to see if something gone awry with the level scaling?

 

What I've found so far is this in the progressiontables file:

"GameDataObjects": [{
			"$type": "Game.GameData.CharacterLevelScalingTableGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
			"DebugName": "CL-DefaultScalingRules",
			"ID": "311137d5-67c2-40ec-b21a-cf8dbd64ae1f",
			"Components": [{
					"$type": "Game.GameData.CharacterLevelScalingTableComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
					"ExpectedCharacterLevelAdjustments": [{
							"ExpectedDifferenceMin": -50,
							"ExpectedDifferenceMax": -2,
							"AdjustedLevelAmount": -1
						}, {
							"ExpectedDifferenceMin": -1,
							"ExpectedDifferenceMax": 1,
							"AdjustedLevelAmount": 0
						}, {
							"ExpectedDifferenceMin": 2,
							"ExpectedDifferenceMax": 2,
							"AdjustedLevelAmount": 1
						}, {
							"ExpectedDifferenceMin": 3,
							"ExpectedDifferenceMax": 50,
							"AdjustedLevelAmount": 2
						}
					]
				}
			]
		}

But I dunno what those numbers mean, perhaps someone with a bit more knowledge in JSON can shed some light on that?

 

Good find, I'll try to make a quick mod and tweak those numbers, seeing where it goes.

 

Btw. I am not sure the levels are intended to scale all the way to player level. It seems they should scale only within a min/max bracket.

Edited by Tanred
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^title

 Between the "real thing" and the "indistinguishable fake" which is worth more?

 

-Of course, the real thing worth more.

 

-They have equal value.

 

-The fake is of far greater value. In its deliberate attempt to be real,

its more "real" than the real thing.

 

~The choice is yours~

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Has anyone had a look at progressiontables.gamedatabundle and global.gamedatabundle to see if something gone awry with the level scaling?

 

What I've found so far is this in the progressiontables file:

"GameDataObjects": [{
			"$type": "Game.GameData.CharacterLevelScalingTableGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
			"DebugName": "CL-DefaultScalingRules",
			"ID": "311137d5-67c2-40ec-b21a-cf8dbd64ae1f",
			"Components": [{
					"$type": "Game.GameData.CharacterLevelScalingTableComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
					"ExpectedCharacterLevelAdjustments": [{
							"ExpectedDifferenceMin": -50,
							"ExpectedDifferenceMax": -2,
							"AdjustedLevelAmount": -1
						}, {
							"ExpectedDifferenceMin": -1,
							"ExpectedDifferenceMax": 1,
							"AdjustedLevelAmount": 0
						}, {
							"ExpectedDifferenceMin": 2,
							"ExpectedDifferenceMax": 2,
							"AdjustedLevelAmount": 1
						}, {
							"ExpectedDifferenceMin": 3,
							"ExpectedDifferenceMax": 50,
							"AdjustedLevelAmount": 2
						}
					]
				}
			]
		}

But I dunno what those numbers mean, perhaps someone with a bit more knowledge in JSON can shed some light on that?

 

---

 

Edit: Might as well add a screenshot of what I mean by scaling not working:

 

ges4ay3.png

 

Top box is my accuracy and the bottom box is my enemies deflection (which should be up-scaled to my level). If scaling would work then my enemy would have +45 deflection not +24 (I'm level 15 so 3x15=45).

 

NPCs don't actually get a level bonus for level 1. So a level 2 gets +3, 3 gets +6 etc.

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this is very important

 

"GameDataObjects": [{
            "$type": "Game.GameData.CharacterLevelScalingTableGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
            "DebugName": "CL-DefaultScalingRules",
            "ID": "311137d5-67c2-40ec-b21a-cf8dbd64ae1f",
            "Components": [{
                    "$type": "Game.GameData.CharacterLevelScalingTableComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
                    "ExpectedCharacterLevelAdjustments": [{
                            "ExpectedDifferenceMin": -50,
                            "ExpectedDifferenceMax": -2,
                            "AdjustedLevelAmount": -1
                        }, {
                            "ExpectedDifferenceMin": -1,
                            "ExpectedDifferenceMax": 1,
                            "AdjustedLevelAmount": 0
                        }, {
                            "ExpectedDifferenceMin": 2,
                            "ExpectedDifferenceMax": 2,
                            "AdjustedLevelAmount": 1
                        }, {
                            "ExpectedDifferenceMin": 3,
                            "ExpectedDifferenceMax": 50,
                            "AdjustedLevelAmount": 2
                        }
                    ]
                }
            ]
        }

 

 

Les figure this out

 

"ExpectedDifferenceMin": -50,
 "ExpectedDifferenceMax": -2,
   "AdjustedLevelAmount": -1

 

if you are -50 to -2 levels scale all to -1 ?

 

 

  "ExpectedDifferenceMin": -1,
     "ExpectedDifferenceMax": 1,
 "AdjustedLevelAmount": 0
   If you are -1 to 1 level don't make adjustment              

 

 }, {
   "ExpectedDifferenceMin": 2,
     "ExpectedDifferenceMax": 2,
   "AdjustedLevelAmount": 1

if you are 2 levels abobe adjusted to only 1 level....this i dont like

    }, {

 

    "ExpectedDifferenceMin": 3,
   "ExpectedDifferenceMax": 50,
    "AdjustedLevelAmount": 2

 

if you are 3 to 50 levels adjusted to only 2 ,,,this is bad

 

can someone try it out ?

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Here is my total guess on how those numbers work.

 

                             "ExpectedDifferenceMin": -50,
                            "ExpectedDifferenceMax": -2,
                            "AdjustedLevelAmount": -1
                        }, {
                            "ExpectedDifferenceMin": -1,
                            "ExpectedDifferenceMax": 1,
                            "AdjustedLevelAmount": 0
                        }, {
                            "ExpectedDifferenceMin": 2,
                            "ExpectedDifferenceMax": 2,
                            "AdjustedLevelAmount": 1
                        }, {
                            "ExpectedDifferenceMin": 3,
                            "ExpectedDifferenceMax": 50,
                            "AdjustedLevelAmount": 2
                        }

 

Difference Min/Max is setting the limits. So -50 to -2 is setting the min and max it is checking for. Perhaps cumulative accuracy/deflection? It looks like it's adjusting the level by -1. That might be just a -1, or it might be a factor of some sort, based on the difference. Honestly if it's only adjusting mobs down 1 level, or up to a maximum of 2 levels, that would be a little disappointing. Of course, this is just a guess, and we don't know what the expected difference is referencing, or what the adjusted level amount actually is.

 

Now that there is a beta patch that makes scaling work. The best way to test this, is going to find a low level spawn of NPCs, something you know the base level is. And then test on them with different level groups to see how much they scale up. One thing to do, would be to just create like a level 5 character, a level 10, and a level 20, and do the sea cave. See if they all scale up just a maximum of 2 levels, or if they scale up more. If they scale up more than 2 levels, we know that the adjustlevel function is a factor based off of something we don't know. If they only scale up 2 levels vs level 5, 10 and 20, then we know its a hard cap.

 

If it is a hardcap, it looks like you could add more entries making it a more gradual scaling process, that scales much more. 

 

So like maybe something like, 

 

                            "ExpectedDifferenceMin": 40,

                            "ExpectedDifferenceMax": 50,
                            "AdjustedLevelAmount": 5

 

                            "ExpectedDifferenceMin": 30,

                            "ExpectedDifferenceMax": 39,
                            "AdjustedLevelAmount": 4

 

                            "ExpectedDifferenceMin": 20,

                            "ExpectedDifferenceMax": 29,
                            "AdjustedLevelAmount": 3

 

Since it doesn't look like it limits how many entries there are. How much to actually scale the levels by, would be determined by testing I would imagine. 

 

EDIT - IT might be adjusting power levels as well. So their abilities hit harder, or softer.

Edited by Mercbeast
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Honestly if it's only adjusting mobs down 1 level, or up to a maximum of 2 levels, that would be a little disappointing. 

 

According to my testing and tweaks I made to progressiontables gamedatabundle, it is indeed the case - AdjustedLevelAmount 1 increases character level by 1 etc.

 

I was able to raise the AdjustedLevelAmount values to +4 levels max in the progressiontables game bundle. Then it appears there is a hard cap which is set for every character individually in the character gamedatabundle. For example, let's look at Naga Sea Shaman entry:

 

"$type": "Game.GameData.CharacterStatsGameData, Assembly-CSharp", 

   "DebugName": "CHA_CRE_Naga_Sea_Shaman",

   "ID": "89f87aef-c391-490e-8f6e-894a05e0a9a2",

   "Components": [{

     "$type": "Game.GameData.CharacterStatsComponent, Assembly-CSharp",

     "DisplayName": 258,

     "Gender": "Neuter",

     "RaceID": "834dbc64-f9d9-4f6c-a905-521715a4fbb9",

     "SubraceID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",

     "CultureID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",

     "CharacterProgressionTableID": "83f597d5-6ca1-4ad0-a9fd-681b7848e679",

     "BaseClassLevel": 9,

     "SpeakerID": "88e449f3-ca6d-41d3-b687-c16d0871bcc4",

     "NakedArmorMaterial": "Flesh",

     "CreatureTypeGDID": "aece4934-43fc-4dc7-966a-76c53f884538",

     "BestiaryEntryID": "67205c73-6cb5-4215-9008-a0f54d3234c5",

     "BackgroundID": "05594ae8-9d20-4592-97b5-62a1d69c1ddb",

     "KeywordsIDs": [],

     "BaseMight": 9,

     "BaseConstitution": 12,

     "BaseDexterity": 11,

     "BasePerception": 15,

     "BaseIntellect": 18,

     "BaseResolve": 12,

     "SkillsList": [],

     "ImmuneToEngagement": "false",

     "ImmuneToAttacks": "false",

     "PerceptionType": "Normal",

     "StealthDetectionID": "4b59d454-61f3-472f-906f-ff36afd861c0",

     "StealingAdjustmentID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",

     "StartingMaxEngageableEnemyCount": 0,

     "StartingAttackSpeedMultiplier": 1,

     "StartingRateOfFireMultiplier": 1,

     "StartingReloadTimeMultiplier": 1,

     "PersonalityID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",

     "AnimationAudioEventListID": "3d34733f-ec17-4462-b1b0-037f66eb6d5e",

     "MinLevelAdjustment": -2,

     "MaxLevelAdjustment": 4,

     "IsNamedCharacter": "false"

Edited by Tanred
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So something like:
 

}
  "ExpectedDifferenceMin": 2,
  "ExpectedDifferenceMax": 2,
  "AdjustedLevelAmount": 2
}, {
  "ExpectedDifferenceMin": 3,
  "ExpectedDifferenceMax": 3,
  "AdjustedLevelAmount": 3
}, {
  "ExpectedDifferenceMin": 4,
  "ExpectedDifferenceMax": 4,
  "AdjustedLevelAmount": 4

... and so on

Then just ctrl+f "MaxLevelAdjustment": and replace all occurrences with a large number.

Edited by ltr
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So that means that at the very least, someone could go through and change the max upscaled levels for every critter in the game? Then adjust the scaling itself to allow up to a maximum of whatever.

Yes but i havent tested it yet.

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Do we know if its possible to change the accuracy/deflection gains from leveling up? I expect changing those values from +3 to +1 would massively impact the game difficulty on POTD.

 

Edit - Yep, it's there, I found it!

 

global.gamedatabundle

 

"AccuracyPerLevel":3,"DefensePerLevel":3,

 

Gonna change those to 1, and try a new play through. I expect it might be very hard.

 

Oddly it doesn't seem to be having an effect.

Edited by Mercbeast
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I tried to set every AdjustedLevelAmount value to 4* in progressiontable gamedatabundle and on-level fights became way more challenging on PotD when enemy is getting +5 levels from PotD (+15 Acc, +15 Defenses) and another +4 levels above the base level from scaling adjustment (+12 Acc, +12 Defenses).

 

Tho not sure this is the right direction the difficulty tweaks should be heading. The amount of misses and enemy crits is way too high.

 

*

"ExpectedDifferenceMin": -1,

"ExpectedDifferenceMax": 1,
"AdjustedLevelAmount": 4

 

"ExpectedDifferenceMin": 2,

"ExpectedDifferenceMax": 2,
"AdjustedLevelAmount": 4

 

etc.

Edited by Tanred
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I tried to set every AdjustedLevelAmount value to 4* in progressiontable gamedatabundle and on-level fights became way more challenging on PotD when enemy is getting +5 levels from PotD (+15 Acc, +15 Defenses) and another +4 levels above the base level from scaling adjustment (+12 Acc, +12 Defenses).

 

Tho not sure this is the right direction the difficulty tweaks should be heading. The amount of misses and enemy crits is way too high.

 

*

"ExpectedDifferenceMin": -1,

"ExpectedDifferenceMax": 1,

"AdjustedLevelAmount": 4

 

"ExpectedDifferenceMin": 2,

"ExpectedDifferenceMax": 2,

"AdjustedLevelAmount": 4

 

etc.

 

Can you test to see if you can get the "AccuracyPerLevel":3,"DefensePerLevel":3, to work when you change the values? I'm wondering if I've just broken something or if it just won't change.

 

I got it working, I must have borked something with my other modding!

 

Anyways. I think, maybe just toning down the per level bonuses might be a better solution than just scaling monsters up completely. The reason is, the bonuses they will get from levels will push their accuracy/deflection much higher, basically doubling the effect of POTD. By lowering the bonus of levels, you take away the biggest advantage the player has over under leveled NPCS, and by leaving the scaling as is, they don't get that massive double dip of almost 2x POTD.

 

Of course, without the +3 accuracy/bonus, the emphasis on stats will change quite a bit, especially on POTD where everything is going to have a 15 level handicap in terms of accuracy/deflection. I think it will definitely change what is viable build wise in potd. Things like dagger/hatchet modals will become very useful.

 

Tell me what you think about just dropping the per level bonus from 3 to 1. Higher level stuff is going to be much harder, = level stuff will be very difficult, under leveled stuff will provide a bit more challenge in swarm type encounters.

Edited by Mercbeast
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It's working ok, however this way enemy gets reduced Acc and Defenses as well.

 

Right, the idea is to make POTD more impactful, and not overcome by level 6.

 

In theory what I hope it does, is clamp down on accuracy/deflection inflation. The bonus the AI gets from POTD becomes more important, levels in terms of accuracy and deflection remain important, but not to the point of trivializing POTD in short order. It also tightens the margins between player and AI.

 

Think of it in terms of percentages. How big of a difference is 15 accuracy, at level 16? Level 16 gives the AI +45 accuracy/Deflection currently. POTD figures only 33% into that. Drop the gain to +1 per level, and now level 15 is EQUAL to POTD. Instead of a combined 60 accuracy/deflection, the AI gets 30, and you have 15. Meaning the difference between you and the AI is 100%, versus the difference between 45 and 60. The relative difference is much higher, preserving POTD difficulty, because now lower level critters, are not going to just get instantly exploded, because while a level 1 beetle is much weaker than you, it has the same bonus as you, which means you won't just auto crit/auto evade every hit.

 

Maybe it won't have the outcome I hope it will, and maybe it will just make POTD basically impossible? :)

Edited by Mercbeast
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I tried to set every AdjustedLevelAmount value to 4* in progressiontable gamedatabundle and on-level fights became way more challenging on PotD when enemy is getting +5 levels from PotD (+15 Acc, +15 Defenses) and another +4 levels above the base level from scaling adjustment (+12 Acc, +12 Defenses).

 

Tho not sure this is the right direction the difficulty tweaks should be heading. The amount of misses and enemy crits is way too high.

 

*

"ExpectedDifferenceMin": -1,

"ExpectedDifferenceMax": 1,

"AdjustedLevelAmount": 4

 

"ExpectedDifferenceMin": 2,

"ExpectedDifferenceMax": 2,

"AdjustedLevelAmount": 4

 

etc.

 

Can you test to see if you can get the "AccuracyPerLevel":3,"DefensePerLevel":3, to work when you change the values? I'm wondering if I've just broken something or if it just won't change.

 

I got it working, I must have borked something with my other modding!

 

Anyways. I think, maybe just toning down the per level bonuses might be a better solution than just scaling monsters up completely. The reason is, the bonuses they will get from levels will push their accuracy/deflection much higher, basically doubling the effect of POTD. By lowering the bonus of levels, you take away the biggest advantage the player has over under leveled NPCS, and by leaving the scaling as is, they don't get that massive double dip of almost 2x POTD.

 

Of course, without the +3 accuracy/bonus, the emphasis on stats will change quite a bit, especially on POTD where everything is going to have a 15 level handicap in terms of accuracy/deflection. I think it will definitely change what is viable build wise in potd. Things like dagger/hatchet modals will become very useful.

 

Tell me what you think about just dropping the per level bonus from 3 to 1. Higher level stuff is going to be much harder, = level stuff will be very difficult, under leveled stuff will provide a bit more challenge in swarm type encounters.

 

 

I think PotD gives good amount of challenge when fighting enemy close to my level. The issue imo lies in overlevelling and hard cap for scaling. That's why I personally run with default scaling values and use a XP gain reduction tweak instead (0,66 atm): https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/98907-modtweak-xp-gain-modifier/.

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It's working ok, however this way enemy gets reduced Acc and Defenses as well.

 

Right, the idea is to make POTD more impactful, and not overcome by level 6.

 

In theory what I hope it does, is clamp down on accuracy/deflection inflation. The bonus the AI gets from POTD becomes more important, levels in terms of accuracy and deflection remain important, but not to the point of trivializing POTD in short order. It also tightens the margins between player and AI.

 

Think of it in terms of percentages. How big of a difference is 15 accuracy, at level 16? Level 16 gives the AI +45 accuracy/Deflection currently. POTD figures only 33% into that. Drop the gain to +1 per level, and now level 15 is EQUAL to POTD. Instead of a combined 60 accuracy/deflection, the AI gets 30, and you have 15. Meaning the difference between you and the AI is 100%, versus the difference between 45 and 60. The relative difference is much higher, preserving POTD difficulty, because now lower level critters, are not going to just get instantly exploded, because while a level 1 beetle is much weaker than you, it has the same bonus as you, which means you won't just auto crit/auto evade every hit.

 

Maybe it won't have the outcome I hope it will, and maybe it will just make POTD basically impossible? :)

 

 

Hmm, I see your point. I might actually try it. It would have a huge effect on class/abilities balance though.

Edited by Tanred
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It will definitely change things up, because stats like resolve and perception will become even more important in dealing with over leveled content.

 

Likewise, different weapons may actually become more important. All this has a knock on effect, of, everything you strip out of your character to make it more competitive accuracy/deflection wise, is something you've stripped out of raw damage/utility. This will, in effect, change how people build their characters more. Level becomes less important in terms of accuracy/deflection, and more important in terms of abilities/passives/power level.

 

I don't know/think it would break the balance, it will just change it, and the games only been out for 8 days right? It's not like there is a solid balance/understanding in place, nor is it like the game is very well balanced as it currently stands anyways. Now, if changing the value from 3 to 1 is too dramatic, we could always try a non-integer value (if they work) like 1.5, so you get 3 every 2 levels.

 

I've also been using the XP tweak you posted, and it definitely helped in keeping me from just breezing through things too the point of critical mass where you just face roll everything.

 

However, I'm going to try without it now, since I think this will be a big enough change not to need to slow down XP. 

 

I've also got to figure out what kind of character I want to play! I really like streetfighter for the attack speed.

Edited by Mercbeast
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Do we know if its possible to change the accuracy/deflection gains from leveling up? I expect changing those values from +3 to +1 would massively impact the game difficulty on POTD.

 

Edit - Yep, it's there, I found it!

 

global.gamedatabundle

 

"AccuracyPerLevel":3,"DefensePerLevel":3,

 

Gonna change those to 1, and try a new play through. I expect it might be very hard.

 

Oddly it doesn't seem to be having an effect.

Well it changes the value both for you and the enemies so it shouldn't have an effect on difficulty I think.

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Guys you are wasting your time talking about ways to implement your own balancing changes with the game in its current form.

 

On the Twitch stream Q and A sawyer said thhat both Veteran and POTD are in FOR A HUGE OVERHAUL.

 

Like a really big overhaul. Both of these difficulties are currently broken and they have not tuned them yet. 

 

Im hoping will be fixed by end of next week.

Edited by master guardian
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Also I like the change that you guys have been suggesting, but how about dropping "AccuracyPerLevel" and "DefensePerLevel" from 3 to 2 instead of 1?

 

I think that would bring a modest increase in difficulty without being as extreme as dropping it to 1.

 

Also do I understand this right, with this change accuracy bonuses from weapons and armor become much more important because +4 (fine weapon) to a smaller number is proportionally a larger increase than if the base number was bigger correct? This would also make gear more important which is a change I support.

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Do we know if its possible to change the accuracy/deflection gains from leveling up? I expect changing those values from +3 to +1 would massively impact the game difficulty on POTD.

 

Edit - Yep, it's there, I found it!

 

global.gamedatabundle

 

"AccuracyPerLevel":3,"DefensePerLevel":3,

 

Gonna change those to 1, and try a new play through. I expect it might be very hard.

 

Oddly it doesn't seem to be having an effect.

Well it changes the value both for you and the enemies so it shouldn't have an effect on difficulty I think.

 

It absolutely will have an effect. 

 

Here is why. Monsters do not scale up very much, 1-2 levels. You can easily outlevel most content. That means, a level 10 character fighting level 4 monsters will enjoy +27 accuracy/deflection vs potd +15 + 9 from level 4. That means at level 10, you enjoy a +27 vs +24 modifier. Put the stats down to +1 per level, and now it's +9 vs +18 in favor of the AI. At level 10 vs level 4 monsters.

 

Basically what it does is, shrink the power advantage of levels in terms of accuracy/deflection. Level 10 vs level 10 would look like +9 PC vs + 24 for the AI (15+9) potd difficulty. 

 

Basically what it is doing is, the difficulty AT your level will remain basically the same, but everything below you level wise will be a little bit harder to hit/evade because it is maintaining the advantage of POTD much longer.

 

With levels giving +3 defense/accuracy per level, the POTD difficulty modifier is trivialized in like 6 levels. By making the bonus smaller, you're extending that POTD modifier for longer into the game.

Edited by Mercbeast
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