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anathanielh

[Level Scaling] [Difficulty] [POTD]Compilation Thread

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I'm not playing on expert mode and the difficulty indicators are not showing even though I have them set to be enabled. Is there a fix for this?

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Yet another person who doesn't understand the meaning of the word "unplayable".

And a thread OP that seems like it’s not even deserving of a dev reply due to the attitude.

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Yet another person who doesn't understand the meaning of the word "unplayable".

And a thread OP that seems like it’s not even deserving of a dev reply due to the attitude.

 

Yet the devs are magnanimous nonetheless and honor him with an undeserved response.

 

@OP For reference, this is what "unplayable" looks like: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/97587-entering-engwithan-digsite-arena-sub-level-causes-freeze/

 

As I've said before, I hate Call of Duty and games like it, but it isn't unplayable, its just something I don't want to play.

Edited by nstgc

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Yet another person who doesn't understand the meaning of the word "unplayable".

Or the same person. MG has been posting the same threads all over forums. That said Deadfire is in desperate need of higher difficulty overall. Dragon fight has been very unthreatening. Not even close to Sky Dragon.

 

One thing I notice is that AI doesn’t seem to target squishy units. My back line of ciphers and wizards is pretty much left untouched. I just fought xaurips who would properly use stealth and backstabs. Suddenly things got more interesting. AI needs to be given more tools, or utilize them better.

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Yet another person who doesn't understand the meaning of the word "unplayable".

Or the same person. MG has been posting the same threads all over forums. That said Deadfire is in desperate need of higher difficulty overall. Dragon fight has been very unthreatening. Not even close to Sky Dragon.

 

One thing I notice is that AI doesn’t seem to target squishy units. My back line of ciphers and wizards is pretty much left untouched. I just fought xaurips who would properly use stealth and backstabs. Suddenly things got more interesting. AI needs to be given more tools, or utilize them better.

 

Be that as it may, claiming a game is unplayable just because it isn't hard enough is beyond childish. Complaining because a game is too hard, while also incredibly annoying (since you just want to smack the players and call them an idiot who needs to uninstall) this WOULD be unplayable. If a player finds a game too hard (not that PoE1 or 2 are anywhere close to that level) then that player lacks the capacity to advance as surely as someone with a CTD issue. In the case of the game being too easy the player could proceed but chooses not to, apparently in a fit of rage. Which is weird.

 

Not that I'm an advocate of dumbing games down (in the Stellaris forums I repeatedly spoke out against the creation of an easy mode), but I just want to point out how asinine these complaints are, especially in a game which allows for mods. For example, change XP scaling. If you are such a genius that you can play the game in your sleep, then figure out a way to make it harder. Example, in my current game I am refusing to use Empowerment, and I don't rest outside of inns.

 

As for the AI, I'm actually finding it to be competent enough, especially for an initial release. It does seem to have a problem with re-positioning, however. Ranged units will hit the squishiest target in range, but won't move an inch to get closer to something that is even squishier. Occationally it can get confused, however. My Watcher is the talkiest character in the party, but is a pure caster (Wizard+Cipher). The Wizard buffs make her insanely tanky, especially when combined with the Cipher's own buffs. It seems some enemies are hard coded to go after casters and ignore the traditional tanks, which are in fact less tanky.

Edited by nstgc

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Yet another person who doesn't understand the meaning of the word "unplayable".

Or the same person. MG has been posting the same threads all over forums. That said Deadfire is in desperate need of higher difficulty overall. Dragon fight has been very unthreatening. Not even close to Sky Dragon.

 

One thing I notice is that AI doesn’t seem to target squishy units. My back line of ciphers and wizards is pretty much left untouched. I just fought xaurips who would properly use stealth and backstabs. Suddenly things got more interesting. AI needs to be given more tools, or utilize them better.

 

Be that as it may, claiming a game is unplayable just because it isn't hard enough is beyond childish. Complaining because a game is too hard, while also incredibly annoying (since you just want to smack the players and call them an idiot who needs to uninstall) this WOULD be unplayable. If a player finds a game too hard (not that PoE1 or 2 are anywhere close to that level) then that player lacks the capacity to advance as surely as someone with a CTD issue. In the case of the game being too easy the player could proceed but chooses not to, apparently in a fit of rage. Which is weird.

 

Not that I'm an advocate of dumbing games down (in the Stellaris forums I repeatedly spoke out against the creation of an easy mode), but I just want to point out how asinine these complaints are, especially in a game which allows for mods. For example, change XP scaling. If you are such a genius that you can play the game in your sleep, then figure out a way to make it harder. Example, in my current game I am refusing to use Empowerment, and I don't rest outside of inns.

 

As for the AI, I'm actually finding it to be competent enough, especially for an initial release. It does seem to have a problem with re-positioning, however. Ranged units will hit the squishiest target in range, but won't move an inch to get closer to something that is even squishier. Occationally it can get confused, however. My Watcher is the talkiest character in the party, but is a pure caster (Wizard+Cipher). The Wizard buffs make her insanely tanky, especially when combined with the Cipher's own buffs. It seems some enemies are hard coded to go after casters and ignore the traditional tanks, which are in fact less tanky.

 

 

Well, if you enjoy combat the game is unplayable.

 

You can watch it, but not play it, if you are in for the combat.

 

You barely have to make any strategy. It's so easy that you can let the ai do all the work and kill everything with few hits.

 

The only thing that can kill you are high level traps.

 

That makes the game boring and spoils all the fun.

 

Good thing the devs will fix it and make it in an actual game

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According to this , every enemy has a baselevel and   max / min level adjustment  amount.

 

Here is my thoughts on code of levelscaling. I have not tested it yet.

 

I made a level scaling mod and while testing it I noticed same creatures would get different bonus levels when spawn at different locations. Thus it seems that ExpectedDifferenceMin/Max values are not tied to base enemy level but to location (area) level. With scaling turned on, enemy base level appears to be adjusted by the difference between the player level and the location level. Early game locations would give highest bonus levels.

 

 

Anyway, here is a link to a work-in-progress level scaling mod for anyone willing to test it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lkrSndOItGA5nB1eQyBXyL0IyVh04lRd/view?usp=sharing

 

Mod's intention is to make the game slightly more challenging. It does two things:

  • Enemy levels are increased.
  • It changes the levelscaling cap of max 4 bonus levels to 10 bonus levels.

As posted before, enemy base level appears to be adjusted by the difference between the player level and the level of the current location.

 

How to install:

  • Navigate to Pillars 2 folder (e.g. Pillars of Eternity II\PillarsOfEternityII_Data\) 
  • Create "override" folder in Pillars of Eternity II\PillarsOfEternityII_Data\
  • Unzip the mod to the created /override folder.
  • Run the game.
  • Make sure scaling is turned on (all + only up).
  • Note that the mod might work only in locations you haven't visited yet (needs further testing).

 

Thank you for the hard work going into editing all of the creatures to scale properly! I was holding off playing this game until things scaled to my level because I was too lazy to do so, and now that they do I am happily playing the game again.

 

I can confirm this mod works in scaling enemies (please note I only tested in two locations.) I am level 9 and without the mod enemies were level 6, with the mod they were level 9.

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Yet another person who doesn't understand the meaning of the word "unplayable".

Or the same person. MG has been posting the same threads all over forums. That said Deadfire is in desperate need of higher difficulty overall. Dragon fight has been very unthreatening. Not even close to Sky Dragon.

 

One thing I notice is that AI doesn’t seem to target squishy units. My back line of ciphers and wizards is pretty much left untouched. I just fought xaurips who would properly use stealth and backstabs. Suddenly things got more interesting. AI needs to be given more tools, or utilize them better.

 

Be that as it may, claiming a game is unplayable just because it isn't hard enough is beyond childish. Complaining because a game is too hard, while also incredibly annoying (since you just want to smack the players and call them an idiot who needs to uninstall) this WOULD be unplayable. If a player finds a game too hard (not that PoE1 or 2 are anywhere close to that level) then that player lacks the capacity to advance as surely as someone with a CTD issue. In the case of the game being too easy the player could proceed but chooses not to, apparently in a fit of rage. Which is weird.

 

Not that I'm an advocate of dumbing games down (in the Stellaris forums I repeatedly spoke out against the creation of an easy mode), but I just want to point out how asinine these complaints are, especially in a game which allows for mods. For example, change XP scaling. If you are such a genius that you can play the game in your sleep, then figure out a way to make it harder. Example, in my current game I am refusing to use Empowerment, and I don't rest outside of inns.

 

As for the AI, I'm actually finding it to be competent enough, especially for an initial release. It does seem to have a problem with re-positioning, however. Ranged units will hit the squishiest target in range, but won't move an inch to get closer to something that is even squishier. Occationally it can get confused, however. My Watcher is the talkiest character in the party, but is a pure caster (Wizard+Cipher). The Wizard buffs make her insanely tanky, especially when combined with the Cipher's own buffs. It seems some enemies are hard coded to go after casters and ignore the traditional tanks, which are in fact less tanky.

 

 

Well, if you enjoy combat the game is unplayable.

 

You can watch it, but not play it, if you are in for the combat.

 

You barely have to make any strategy. It's so easy that you can let the ai do all the work and kill everything with few hits.

 

The only thing that can kill you are high level traps.

 

That makes the game boring and spoils all the fun.

 

Good thing the devs will fix it and make it in an actual game

 

Unenjoyable and unplayable are two very different things. The game can be played; you just don't want to. As I said, Call of Duty is not unplayable, its just unenjoyable FOR ME.

 

Since you are having difficulty telling them apart, here is an example of unplayable: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/97587-entering-engwithan-digsite-arena-sub-level-causes-freeze/

 

It is literally impossible to get past that due to a CTD. That is what it means to be unplayable. Its not that the player chooses not to continue, like the OP, it can't be done.

Edited by nstgc
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Great mod. It finally makes the game challenging a bit.

 

Thanks! Eventual future updates to the mod will be uploaded on Nexus, here's the link: https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/24

 

Link to the mod thread here on Obsidian forums: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/100039-mod-level-scaling-mod-released/

Edited by Tanred

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Because of this, we opt to not display difficulty indicators when level scaling is enabled, rather than displaying inaccurate information.

Great, except... If only low level encounters are being scaled up, they wouldn't have had skull markers in the first place.  It's the LACK of skulls for difficult content that's hosing us.  You could simply re-enable your "inaccurate information", and it would be 100% visually accurate to the player.

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I actually made my account primarily to discuss this.

 

I've played the game on Veteran normally without any scaling options on and the skulls and harder areas were visible.

 

However the game was becoming laughably easily, so I wanted to try POTD and I enabled level scaling and checked ONLY SCALE UP. Now everything in the game is either at or below my level, according to in game quest difficulty descriptions and no more skulls are present. I'm also actually able to do quests WAY earlier than what I could originally because everything is "scaled" to my level apparently -- even when I clicked scale ONLY UP.

 

This is definitely a bug or they really screwed up the description.

 

Scaling enemies up needs to be fixed because even on POTD the game is just too damn easy, especially since resources are basically infinite unlike in the first came. I don't have to worry about my resources at all like I did in the first game which is unfortunate, because I like the new class/multi-class addition very much - but the game is just to damn easy I can spam all my per-rest abilities and not even worry because I can camp right after each fight.

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However the game was becoming laughably easily, so I wanted to try POTD and I enabled level scaling and checked ONLY SCALE UP. Now everything in the game is either at or below my level, according to in game quest difficulty descriptions and no more skulls are present. I'm also actually able to do quests WAY earlier than what I could originally because everything is "scaled" to my level apparently -- even when I clicked scale ONLY UP.

You're missing the point. The only bug here is that the skulls don't show up at all if any form of scaling is enabled. That doesn't mean that everything scales (down) to your level - it just means that the high level encounters/monsters/quests will not be marked with skulls (go fight The Steel Preacher at level 2 or 3, and see how you fare). PotD being easy (or at least easier than it was in PoE 1) is a different problem (which they plan to fix).

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However the game was becoming laughably easily, so I wanted to try POTD and I enabled level scaling and checked ONLY SCALE UP. Now everything in the game is either at or below my level, according to in game quest difficulty descriptions and no more skulls are present. I'm also actually able to do quests WAY earlier than what I could originally because everything is "scaled" to my level apparently -- even when I clicked scale ONLY UP.

You're missing the point. The only bug here is that the skulls don't show up at all if any form of scaling is enabled. That doesn't mean that everything scales (down) to your level - it just means that the high level encounters/monsters/quests will not be marked with skulls (go fight The Steel Preacher at level 2 or 3, and see how you fare). PotD being easy (or at least easier than it was in PoE 1) is a different problem (which they plan to fix).

 

What point am I missing? I'm simply reading the description of the feature and it's not doing what it's suppose to do. High level encounters shouldn't scale down to me when I have only scale upwards enabled, but it does. I've already did some hard encounters, I cleared out the forest west of Neketaka at level 5 with scaling. In the default game mode with no scaling that is like a level 9 area I think, I remember seeing skulls (3) at that place when I was 5-6 on my original play through. I cleared the place out at level 5-6 on POTD difficulty.

 

I know it's possible to clear out higher level areas if you manage everything super well, but holy crap --- I had a party full of multi classes at level 5 and still did it on POTD (Level scaling all on with ONLY SCALE UP ENABLED) when it's a area that is 3-4 levels higher than me with scaling disabled.

Edited by Bamsmacked88

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