Thread for those of us who want to roll a single or multi rogue....lets talk

[Boeroer]

Backstab works in a way that it favours heavy hitting attacks.

 

Only the first attack roll out of stealth or invisib. will receive the bonus from Backstab (and Assassinate). That means that a full attack ability will only backstab/assassinate with the first strike. A blunderbuss is especially bad since only the first pellet will backstab/assassinate.

 

Maybe Obsidian wants to put in a timer or so. A short time window after the first attack roll where you can still backstab. At the moment it favours single attacks with high base damage.

[Boeroer]

its 30% read just above this post

Ok, then it is as I remembered. Thanks.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Did anybody check if Sneak Attack or even FoD and so on now scale with PL in the stream?

[dunehunter]

DnD 3.0 has a good example for solving these problems.

 

Rogue's sneak attack scale with level.

 

Paladin Smite evil scales with level.

 

Or am i missing something here? I thought this is a perfect solution unless someone can point out the drawback of d&d way.

[Boeroer]

There is none. Unless you balance a class in a way that you have to frontload it because you can't come up with some good high level abilities...

Edited May 7, 2018 by Boeroer

[master guardian]

Backstab works in a way that it favours heavy hitting attacks.

 

Only the first attack roll out of stealth or invisib. will receive the bonus from Backstab (and Assassinate). That means that a full attack ability will only backstab/assassinate with the first strike. A blunderbuss is especially bad since only the first pellet will backstab/assassinate.

 

Maybe Obsidian wants to put in a timer or so. A short time window after the first attack roll where you can still backstab. At the moment it favours single attacks with high base damage.

great info as allways thanks!!!!

 

im now considering playing a multi class assassin/ something two handed style!!!

 

now to check what synergises 

[Boeroer]

Everything that gives you multiplicative dmg bonuses is great for Assassin/whatever.

 

That would be high MIG (e.g. Helwalker) and lashes basically (Priest of Berath, Bleak Walker, any monk with Lightning Strikes). I don't know if shifting breaks stealth, but if not then Fury with Wildstrike would also be a candidate. Remember that assassination (not Backstab) works from range and with spells and can be Devastating. So even Assassin/Nuker can be good - you don't need Backstab then.

Also all abilities which scale damage with Power Level are great because it's also multiplicative.

 

Look out for abilities/weapons with direct damage (no DoTs because the ticks break invisibility and don't work with assassination) that have high base damage and/or lashes.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Boeroer

[master guardian]

Everything that gives you multiplicative dmg bonuses is great for Assassin/whatever.

 

That would be high MIG (e.g. Helwalker) and lashes basically (Priest of Berath, Bleak Walker, any monk with Lightning Strikes). I don't know if shifting breaks stealth, but if not then Fury with Wildstrike would also be a candidate. Remember that assassination (not Backstab) works from range and with spells and can be Devastating. So even Assassin/Nuker can be good - you don't need Backstab then.

Also all abilities which scale damage with Power Level are great because it's also multiplicative.

 

Look out for abilities/weapons with direct damage (no DoTs because the ticks break invisibility and don't work with assassination) that have high base damage and/or lashes.

does the ciphers biting whip scale with it?

 

biting whip got nerfed to 30% btw

 

also can you enter stealth in combat??

 

The problem with backstab is that once you come out of stealth/ invis and backstab you a pretty exposed

 

im looking at another class to make the rogue sturdier maybe. fighter perhaps

 

wizard looks like it would dual really well with assasin becuse of all the good self defense spells

Edited May 7, 2018 by master guardian

[Yosharian]

Man, might as well remove rogue from the game!!

[Boeroer]

Cipher's whip does stack, yes. But it's only additive so you won't see much of a difference when backstabbing/assassinating. For auto-attacks it fine though.

 

If you want 0 recovery after Backstab you can use an arquebus: with the modal you'll do a crit most of the time AND guns have no recovery but only reload. That means that you can immedialtey vanish into invisibility (Smoke Cloud) after your backstab/assassination.

 

The lvl-9 ability would make sure you become invisible right after an attack - but that's not for multiclass.

 

Something similar could be achieved by Blood Thirst (barb). But PL 7 - so pretty late as well.

 

If you want great backstabs/assassinations as well as more sturdyness I would say that Bleak Walker is your best mate. Makes the rogue a lot sturdier and adds some nice lashes for the backstabs/assassinations.

 

Devoted only gives you more crit damage which is not multiplicative. And you'll have plenty of bonus PEN when assassinating.

 

Watch out with Deep Wounds! While it is a great passive it currently breaks invisibility when ticking (so stupid). I guess they will fix that if it's not already fixed in the final game.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Boeroer

[master guardian]

Cipher's whip does stack, yes. But it's only additive so you won't see much of a difference when backstabbing/assassinating. For auto-attacks it fine though.

 

If you want 0 recovery after Backstab you can use an arquebus: with the modal you'll do a crit most of the time AND guns have no recovery but only reload. That means that you can immedialtey vanish into invisibility (Smoke Cloud) after your backstab/assassination.

 

The lvl-9 ability would make sure you become invisible right after an attack - but that's not for multiclass.

 

Something similar could be achieved by Blood Thirst (barb). But PL 7 - so pretty late as well.

 

If you want great backstabs/assassinations as well as more sturdyness I would say that Bleak Walker is your best mate. Makes the rogue a lot sturdier and adds some nice lashes for the backstabs/assassinations.

 

Devoted only gives you more crit damage which is not multiplicative. And you'll have plenty of bonus PEN when assassinating.

 

Watch out with Deep Wounds! While it is a great passive it currently breaks invisibility when ticking (so stupid). I guess they will fix that if it's not already fixed in the final game.

Im leaning towards Assasin/ Wizard

 

The self buffs will work really well with a rogue

 

eg martial power ect..............

 

an assasin/ wizard will also be able to backstab and then straight away put up a defensive spell

 

and what is a bleak walker i cant find it on beta

Edited May 7, 2018 by master guardian

[z_liquid]

If you want 0 recovery after Backstab you can use an arquebus: with the modal you'll do a crit most of the time AND guns have no recovery but only reload. That means that you can immedialtey vanish into invisibility (Smoke Cloud) after your backstab/assassination.

Won't blunted criticals nullify the bonus from critting, so you're only getting extra pen?

[DigitalDemon]

So as far as I understand, a dual-wielding Assassin (whether single- or multi-classed) doesn't make much sense in the current build of the game because only the first attack will receive the bonuses when coming out of stealth?

[master guardian]

So as far as I understand, a dual-wielding Assassin (whether single- or multi-classed) doesn't make much sense in the current build of the game because only the first attack will receive the bonuses when coming out of stealth?

yep

[CottonWolf]

Man, might as well remove rogue from the game!!

 

Secret right answer. There are too many martial classes. Rogue should just be something you can build a fighter into.

[Lamppost in Winter]

I'm hoping this just means they finally implemented Power Level scaling for Sneak Attack and other passives.

[Aramintai]

Well, this thread is just sad. And playing a single class rogue will be sad. I'll skip a single class rogue playthrough until devs stop throwing nerfs everywhere and start actually balancing classes. For now, multiclass it is.

[JerekKruger]

DnD 3.0 has a good example for solving these problems.

 

Rogue's sneak attack scale with level.

 

Paladin Smite evil scales with level.

 

Or am i missing something here? I thought this is a perfect solution unless someone can point out the drawback of d&d way.

 

The way it's done in D&D 3.0? There isn't one that I can spot.

 

However Obsidian seem wedded to percentage damage bonuses and for those scaling is much more likely to lead to problems.

[Riftis]

I'm actually okay with this nerf, despite wanting to play a mindstalker (cipher/rogue). I think it should have been down to 30% rather than 20% but 50% was too much when you take multiclassing into account. Whenever I was thinking about multiclassing I always had it in my head that I could combine X with rogue and get 50% bonus damage. I should mention, even with this nerf beguiler cipher + rogue still gets 50% sneak attack damage when you take biting whip at power level 2 (and 40% before), so it seems like mindstalker is the class to be if you wanna focus on sneak attack damage. 

[JerekKruger]

I think it should have been down to 30% rather than 20% but 50% was too much when you take multiclassing into account.

 

Good news:

 

[Riftis]

 

I think it should have been down to 30% rather than 20% but 50% was too much when you take multiclassing into account.

 

Good news:

 

 

You heard it here folks, my balancing senses are impeccable.  

[master guardian]

I'm actually okay with this nerf, despite wanting to play a mindstalker (cipher/rogue). I think it should have been down to 30% rather than 20% but 50% was too much when you take multiclassing into account. Whenever I was thinking about multiclassing I always had it in my head that I could combine X with rogue and get 50% bonus damage. I should mention, even with this nerf beguiler cipher + rogue still gets 50% sneak attack damage when you take biting whip at power level 2 (and 40% before), so it seems like mindstalker is the class to be if you wanna focus on sneak attack damage. 

biting whip is 30% additive damage to the base roll (it got nerfed from 40%)

 

Sneak attacks is extra 30% on top of all the damage eg two handed style, lashes ect

 

so sneak is far more powerful

Edited May 7, 2018 by master guardian

[GuyNice]

 

I'm actually okay with this nerf, despite wanting to play a mindstalker (cipher/rogue). I think it should have been down to 30% rather than 20% but 50% was too much when you take multiclassing into account. Whenever I was thinking about multiclassing I always had it in my head that I could combine X with rogue and get 50% bonus damage. I should mention, even with this nerf beguiler cipher + rogue still gets 50% sneak attack damage when you take biting whip at power level 2 (and 40% before), so it seems like mindstalker is the class to be if you wanna focus on sneak attack damage. 

biting whip is 30% additive damage to the base roll (it got nerfed from 40%)

 

Sneak attacks is extra 30% on top of all the damage eg two handed style, lashes ect

 

so sneak is far more powerful

 

Where are you getting this? I was under the impression that Sneak Attack has always been an additive bonus. IIRC only Might and lashes are multiplicative bonuses in Deadfire.

[master guardian]

sorry i just checked i was wrong

 

I also checked what assinate does

 

+4 penetration

+ 25 accurecy

+ 50 crit damage

 

pretty good. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by master guardian

[Riftis]

biting whip is 30% additive damage to the base roll (it got nerfed from 40%)

 

 

Sneak attacks is extra 30% on top of all the damage eg two handed style, lashes ect

 

so sneak is far more powerful

 

Where are you getting this? I was under the impression that Sneak Attack has always been an additive bonus. IIRC only Might and lashes are multiplicative bonuses in Deadfire.

Either way, Mindstalker is the multiclass to take if you wanna stack sneak attack damage.