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"Swift" inspiration needs buffs.

MadDemiurg

By MadDemiurg
in Backer Beta Discussion

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MadDemiurg

MadDemiurg

Posted
Posted

Intuitive

+5 per

+50% graze to hit

+50% hit to crit

 

Swift

+5 dex

+100% stride

Immune to disengagement

 

Considering the bottom 2 bottom bonuses of swift are kinda gimmicky it's pretty clear that Swift is UP and Intuitive is OP (seriously, what the hell are these %, 20% was considered good in PoE1).

 

Swift being bad is also a big nerf to Wizards since DAoM was a big defining part of their kit and now it's not even worth the damage it does to you, lvl 1 fleet feet is like 2x better because of this.

 

 

I think we need -recovery time or +action speed on swift, smth like 20-30% at least.

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dukeisaac

dukeisaac

Posted
Posted

Intuitive

+5 per

+50% graze to hit

+50% hit to crit

 

Swift

+5 dex

+100% stride

Immune to disengagement

 

Considering the bottom 2 bottom bonuses of swift are kinda gimmicky it's pretty clear that Swift is UP and Intuitive is OP (seriously, what the hell are these %, 20% was considered good in PoE1).

 

Swift being bad is also a big nerf to Wizards since DAoM was a big defining part of their kit and now it's not even worth the damage it does to you, lvl 1 fleet feet is like 2x better because of this.

 

 

I think we need -recovery time or +action speed on swift, smth like 20-30% at least.

I agree that the percentages in Intuitive are surprisingly strong, but I kinda like the double movement and immune to engagement attacks of swift.

 

Imagine a dual-wielding fighter or rogue zipping between enemies, could be cool.

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theBalthazar

theBalthazar

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+1 Totally agree. I have already note that with my analysis of abilities.

 

I add a thing :

 

With wizard, you have fleet feet without malus. Few level later deleterious alacrity with a malus and hardly better.

 

A good proposition could be :

 

Swift

+5 dex

50 % Crit to hit

+100% stride and Immune to disengagement

 
You avoid the most dangerous shots with good reflexes.
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theBalthazar

theBalthazar

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Hum... Not bad.

 

We can't give Action speed (Monk +5 dex, already in action speed indirecly, + 20 % action speed in bonus, so if we add +20 % in Swift : it is weird etc.). But recovery is possible. It is a new concept.

 

Swift

+5 dex

50 % Crit to hit

-20 % of recovery

+100% stride

 

Immunity to engagement is already cover by a lot of concept. Not particularly linked to a man "swift" ? (fast, rapid, quick, prompt, speedy) = Linked to the movement ?

Edited by theBalthazar
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theBalthazar

theBalthazar

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Crit to Hit is not Hit to Crit.

 

Crit to Hit is damage received by player.

 

50 % of chance damages become a Hit when it is critical.

 

Constitution cover Health / s and armor. Might, penetration. Perception Hit to crit and graze to hit. Intelligence +1 power level. Resolve, concentration.

 

-----------------------------

 

For recovery, difficult to split, because often, Obsidian add a new trick each level of inspiration. Anf if we retain the best for the end :

 

*

Dexterity +5

 

**

Dexterity +5

Stride +50 %

50 % Crit to hit

 

 

*** Swift

Dexterity +5

Stride +100 %

50 % Crit to hit

-20 % of recovery

Edited by theBalthazar
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Lamppost in Winter

Lamppost in Winter

Posted
Posted

 I like both the incoming Crit>Hit or Hit>Graze conversion or Recovery reduction for Swift. If it came down to it I'd choose Recovery reduction for Swift and maybe give the Crit>Hit>Graze conversion to the Corageous (the tier 3 immunity to Interrupt bonus is of questionable usefulness and it would be nice to have a nice defensive buff for Resolve).

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MaxQuest

MaxQuest

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Considering the bottom 2 bottom bonuses of swift are kinda gimmicky it's pretty clear that Swift is UP and Intuitive is OP (seriously, what the hell are these %, 20% was considered good in PoE1).

Do agree, the utility of swift is very situational compared to the bonuses of intuitive, which are great for any dps'er and debilitator. And would like to see a small buff to Swift. The suggested +20-25% action speed; or incoming 40% crit-to-hit will do.

 

Am also interested what kind of encounters will we have to face once the game comes out.

For example there could be a buff/healing tank, that would solo tank a dragon, and a player could use Swift such that this tank would run around and rotate the dragon 180 degrees, to prevent dragon breath from landing on his party. Also being immune to disengagement, maybe he would also be able to dodge some of dragon stuff (in the same manner like getting out of range before titan's kick). Also if such character only heals, buffs and tanks; he doesn't care much for intuitive bonuses (except for it being as 1 layer vs blind). So there is at least one use case (although situational) where Swift is better than Intuitive.

Edited by MaxQuest
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Gromnir

Gromnir

Posted
Posted

more opposite land.  the same folks telling us how they blast through encounters in sub 30 seconds is advocating additional buffs 'stead o' nerfs. given how devastating is disengagement attacks, and the advantages which come with heightened dex, am not worried 'bout admitted situational benefits of swift. intuitive, on the other hand, is extreme beneficial to many builds and is pushing the limits o' game balance. more reasonable solution is to nerf intuitive a bit 'stead o' creating a new balance problem with swift.

 

a daom fix is a separate issue as the additional malus in addition to swift is what makes the ability absolute garbage.  even so, situational useful abilities are not bad.  for certain builds such abilities will be highly useful and as wizards is already benefiting from grimoires to be getting functional free talents as well as larger talent catalogs, am not particular bothered by a few situational useful abilities-- switch out the appropriate grimoire  for situational benefit win.  

 

however, the repeated demand for buffs to talents and classes while using op benchmarks as the reason for such buffs is misguided.  fact that such appeals is coming from people who is apparent roll-stomping through deadfire content on vet and potd difficulties is particular amusing to us.

 

Real%20Bizarro.jpg

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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theBalthazar

theBalthazar

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It is a solution Gromnir.

 

But in my vision, an inspiration level 3 must give a good dream. Might is good, Perception is good. Constitution is good etc. So, it is more likely that swift is the problem.

 

If there is nerf and that's become  an "ok" effect, people will start to focus on pure damage and not anymore try to do combination with Inspirations / Afflictions.

 

But, to see with the full game...

 

We are at the level 6 in the beta. Level 3 inspirations seems to be strong but frankly it is normal. We are level 6 and without stuff.

Edited by theBalthazar
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Boeroer

Boeroer

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Posted (edited)

As I already said: I think Intuitive is too strong.

 

I mean think about it: if a target is paralyzed you get 50% hit to crit and some minor nicknacks.

 

But if you're intuitive, you get a stat bonus, 50% graze to hit AND 50% hit to crit?

 

Every idiot can kill a paralyzed target with a chopstick. No need for intuition...

Edited by Boeroer
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dunehunter

dunehunter

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Posted (edited)

I also find Disoriented and Blinded being super strong debuff. When fighting Greater Sand Blignts, anyone get blinded will stuck there with the recovery bar freeze until blinded is ended.

 

But I guess the reason is that sircoco also interrupt, and interrupt will add some recovery time to your character, which is doubled by blind.

Edited by dunehunter
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theBalthazar

theBalthazar

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Extremely dangerous to nerf disciplined strike.

 

That one of reason why Fighter is top tiers.

 

Except that Fighter is mainly single target. Yes you can use cleave stance, but you must kill someone before.

 

I have a word with all stat of all classes. On the paper, pure stat are low. It is only few tricks that is create this power.

 

Fighter don't win on damage. (Rogue / Paladin)

Fighter don't win on penetration. (Druid)

Fighter don't win on accuracy (Paladin)

Fighter dont win on speed (Monk-Barbarian)

 

So, in fact Fighter is overall "average -" in all elements. and he have 2 trumps cards (Disciplined strike and Cleave stance). If you nerf one of these two trumps cards, you kill the Fighter.

 

I'm OK with that, meta game is meta game.

 

But personnally, memories : I have never play a Fighter in POE1 for that reason. (I have test it obviously but that was awful)

 

Fighter NEED a niche in single target - jack of all trades in all stations.

 

Black jacket is awful and without Disciplined strike and cleave, unbroken down in low tiers easily. You has been warned !^^... Be wary of the might of the nerf.

Edited by theBalthazar
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MadDemiurg

MadDemiurg

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1) Everything that is currently "top tier" needs a nerf imo. Current top tier builds are way too strong, basically gamebreaking.

2) Fighter is described as defender first, striker second. They should not be the best dps class, above average maybe. Not on the level of Rogue/Ranger/Cipher/Fury for sure. They should be pretty damn tanky tho.

3) Fighters have a bunch of crappy abilities in need of buffs for the sake of build diversity if nothing else

Edited by MadDemiurg
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AndreaColombo

AndreaColombo

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Posted

Fighters are not, in fact, the best DPS class. But they already have a subclass that makes the best tanks—they don't need all of them to be. It would be pretty boring.

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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MadDemiurg

MadDemiurg

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Fighters are a top tier dps class currently. Maybe not the best one, but one of for sure. 75% graze to hit with 50% hit to crit and full attack cleaves that are way better than carnage does that to people.

 

As tanks, they're kinda meh in terms of survivability (better than average, but not top notch), but top tier in terms of keeping enemies engaged. 

Edited by MadDemiurg
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