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Casters are still slow...


theBalthazar

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If any summoned weapon takes longer than 0.5s to summon, there’s no reason to waste time summoning it. Pretty much every other action you could take would be more efficient.

 

EDIT: To add to the smartphone-induced one-liner above.

 

The whole "summoned weapons" vs. "self-buffs" argument is more about semantics than anything. The problem is not to decide whether summoned weapons are self-buffs or not; it's to make the game fun. Right now, casters aren't much fun because they are slow; summoned weapons aren't fun because by the time they've been conjured, combat's almost over anyway. I'm already spending a spell pick to acquire them; do I also need to expose myself to the risk of losing them to interruption while I give up on 6s of DPS? Bit of a steep cost for a weapon that isn't significantly better than regular, non-summoned ones.

Edited by AndreaColombo
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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Weapons I don't bother with because they are too slow: pistols, blunderbusses, arquebuses, crossbows.

 

Now spells casters, well at least certain spells.

 

I think to deviate this much from the Pillars I model at this point really requires a host of new spells to justify both casting times and spell schools.

 

We have already been given a hint of new spells casting apparel coming down the pike. I am sure the limited nature of the beta makes much of the changes seem arbitrary. Let's hope the heed the call and infuse the next build with some of the enticing answers to our predicament.

 

Ultimately I am fairly agnostic about the whole thing. But PoE I really was a watershed for spell casters for me in light of the missed opportunities in other party based CRPGs. She didn't have to be an archer/magic user to contribute after unloading her one or two magic missiles. He could even wield a sword respectably. It is a shame to see that mucked with.

 

I do feel like there are tow things I consider with spellcasters and I do think whether one is wielding divine magic or arcane magic makes a difference. I think divine magic can and should be deity specific and influenced.

 

That the arcane magic here requires the spell book to be in hand is still kind of weird to me. But I do feel like proficiency in either spells or disciplines should have an affect similar to weapons for fighters, both in study and in caster level. I am surprised that wizards like Llengrath or Concelhaut haven't come up with ways to quickly trigger spells from some sort of stored capacity. We already can trigger spells, or at least spell like functions, from traps.

 

Joe

Edited by JFutral
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The whole "summoned weapons" vs. "self-buffs" argument is more about semantics than anything. The problem is not to decide whether summoned weapons are self-buffs or not; it's to make the game fun. Right now, casters aren't much fun because they are slow; summoned weapons aren't fun because by the time they've been conjured, combat's almost over anyway. I'm already spending a spell pick to acquire them; do I also need to expose myself to the risk of losing them to interruption while I give up on 6s of DPS? Bit of a steep cost for a weapon that isn't significantly better than regular, non-summoned ones.

 

There are self-buff that grant you Concentration if you are afraid of your spell get interrupted, and almost all these buff are instantly casted. But yeah I agree 6 sec is a bit too long.

 

Your weapon attack have a chance to be interrupted too, but since your animation is very fast, it is really hard to interrupt you.

Edited by dunehunter
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Evokers gain more from power level partly because evocation spells are the only ones that gain additional projectiles. Druid and Chanter spells with projectiles don't gain more projectiles at any power level. (One could argue that the presence of "Twin" and "Seven" in the names precludes having more projectiles at any power level, but I don't find that convincing. An empowered version of the spell at least should be able to have more projectiles. The other argument is that Twin Stones gains more from an extra projectile because it only starts with two. But Bounding Missiles starts with three. And the Twin Stones projectiles are at an angle to each other so it's difficult to hit the same target with both. The Twin Stones AoE is powerful but only triggers if you hit a solid boundary in the environment. Perhaps one projectile / two power levels is too much for twin stones but one projectile / 3 or 4 power levels seems fine. OTOH seven nights starts with seven projectiles so each extra projectile is only 1/7th extra damage as opposed to 1/5th for Minor/Concussive missiles and 1/3rd (+ jumps) for Bounding Missiles.)

Edited by SaruNi
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Evokers gain more from power level partly because evocation spells are the only ones that gain additional projectiles. Druid and Chanter spells with projectiles don't gain more projectiles at any power level. (One could argue that the presence of "Twin" and "Seven" in the names precludes having more projectiles at any power level, but I don't find that convincing. An empowered version of the spell at least should be able to have more projectiles. The other argument is that Twin Stones gains more from an extra projectile because it only starts with two. But Bounding Missiles starts with three. And the Twin Stones projectiles are at an angle to each other so it's difficult to hit the same target with both. The Twin Stones AoE is powerful but only triggers if you hit a solid boundary in the environment. Perhaps one projectile / two power levels is too much for twin stones but one projectile / 3 or 4 power levels seems fine. OTOH seven nights starts with seven projectiles so each extra projectile is only 1/7th extra damage as opposed to 1/5th for Minor/Concussive missiles and 1/3rd (+ jumps) for Bounding Missiles.)

 

On enemy spell-casters: I'm 99% sure the Delemgan's (Druid caster showcase) Summon Blight always summons an Earth blight. Druid summons would be great (aside from casting time, though cat flurry helps) if you had a good chance of getting the right Blight for the situation, but you only have a 1/5th chance of that, and an equal chance of getting a blight that's bad for those particular enemies' resistances and damage types. The blights are different enough that they can't all easily take the same role, and you can't build your party around synchronizing with them. It would be better if you could either choose which blight you get or take a version of the spell which only gives you a specific blight (or if the blights were made more powerful to compensate for the randomness).

 

Druid does get Projection spells, you forget Fire Bug :p but it comes super late compare to wizard.

 

DoT, projection, jump spell get more benefits from Empower as Empower not only boost accuracy, pen and basic damage, but also boost duration, project and jump number. So these spells are boosted twice by Empower right now than plain blast...

 

Specially Ray like spell get a lot from Empower, since they usually tick very fast and have a short duration. Empower have a flat bonus to duration really make these spells overpowered. You can try Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring with/without Empower and the difference is huge. (even Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring is already super powerful without Empower.)

Edited by dunehunter
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Evokers gain more from power level partly because evocation spells are the only ones that gain additional projectiles. Druid and Chanter spells with projectiles don't gain more projectiles at any power level. (One could argue that the presence of "Twin" and "Seven" in the names precludes having more projectiles at any power level, but I don't find that convincing. An empowered version of the spell at least should be able to have more projectiles. The other argument is that Twin Stones gains more from an extra projectile because it only starts with two. But Bounding Missiles starts with three. And the Twin Stones projectiles are at an angle to each other so it's difficult to hit the same target with both. The Twin Stones AoE is powerful but only triggers if you hit a solid boundary in the environment. Perhaps one projectile / two power levels is too much for twin stones but one projectile / 3 or 4 power levels seems fine. OTOH seven nights starts with seven projectiles so each extra projectile is only 1/7th extra damage as opposed to 1/5th for Minor/Concussive missiles and 1/3rd (+ jumps) for Bounding Missiles.)

 

On enemy spell-casters: I'm 99% sure the Delemgan's (Druid caster showcase) Summon Blight always summons an Earth blight. Druid summons would be great (aside from casting time, though cat flurry helps) if you had a good chance of getting the right Blight for the situation, but you only have a 1/5th chance of that, and an equal chance of getting a blight that's bad for those particular enemies' resistances and damage types. The blights are different enough that they can't all easily take the same role, and you can't build your party around synchronizing with them. It would be better if you could either choose which blight you get or take a version of the spell which only gives you a specific blight (or if the blights were made more powerful to compensate for the randomness).

 

Druid does get Projection spells, you forget Fire Bug :p but it comes super late compare to wizard.

 

DoT, projection, jump spell get more benefits from Empower as Empower not only boost accuracy, pen and basic damage, but also boost duration, project and jump number. So these spells are boosted twice by Empower right now than plain blast...

 

Specially Ray like spell get a lot from Empower, since they usually tick very fast and have a short duration. Empower have a flat bonus to duration really make these spells overpowered. You can try Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring with/without Empower and the difference is huge. (even Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring is already super powerful without Empower.)

 

 

Fire Bug's description doesn't mention projectiles or number of projectiles at all... only jump. It would be good if it had multiple projectiles....

 

 

Btw Ninagauth's Shadowflame is pretty good for a pre-cast spell---9 second cast time but only one second recovery. (Stronger fireball that does cold damage and paralyzes for base 6 seconds.)

Edited by SaruNi
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Evokers gain more from power level partly because evocation spells are the only ones that gain additional projectiles. Druid and Chanter spells with projectiles don't gain more projectiles at any power level. (One could argue that the presence of "Twin" and "Seven" in the names precludes having more projectiles at any power level, but I don't find that convincing. An empowered version of the spell at least should be able to have more projectiles. The other argument is that Twin Stones gains more from an extra projectile because it only starts with two. But Bounding Missiles starts with three. And the Twin Stones projectiles are at an angle to each other so it's difficult to hit the same target with both. The Twin Stones AoE is powerful but only triggers if you hit a solid boundary in the environment. Perhaps one projectile / two power levels is too much for twin stones but one projectile / 3 or 4 power levels seems fine. OTOH seven nights starts with seven projectiles so each extra projectile is only 1/7th extra damage as opposed to 1/5th for Minor/Concussive missiles and 1/3rd (+ jumps) for Bounding Missiles.)

 

On enemy spell-casters: I'm 99% sure the Delemgan's (Druid caster showcase) Summon Blight always summons an Earth blight. Druid summons would be great (aside from casting time, though cat flurry helps) if you had a good chance of getting the right Blight for the situation, but you only have a 1/5th chance of that, and an equal chance of getting a blight that's bad for those particular enemies' resistances and damage types. The blights are different enough that they can't all easily take the same role, and you can't build your party around synchronizing with them. It would be better if you could either choose which blight you get or take a version of the spell which only gives you a specific blight (or if the blights were made more powerful to compensate for the randomness).

 

Druid does get Projection spells, you forget Fire Bug :p but it comes super late compare to wizard.

 

DoT, projection, jump spell get more benefits from Empower as Empower not only boost accuracy, pen and basic damage, but also boost duration, project and jump number. So these spells are boosted twice by Empower right now than plain blast...

 

Specially Ray like spell get a lot from Empower, since they usually tick very fast and have a short duration. Empower have a flat bonus to duration really make these spells overpowered. You can try Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring with/without Empower and the difference is huge. (even Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring is already super powerful without Empower.)

 

 

Fire Bug's description doesn't mention projectiles or number of projectiles at all... only jump. It would be good if it had multiple projectiles....

 

Jump spells would be better if they could "jump" back to a target they've hit before. 

 

Btw Ninagauth's Shadowflame is pretty good for a pre-cast spell---9 second cast time but only one second recovery. (Stronger fireball that does cold damage and paralyzes for base 6 seconds.)

 

 

Why would you think Jump spell doesn't jump back to original target? They do jump back.

 

But the bouncing mechanism is not welcoming for additional jumps, the more it bounces the less the damage is. Except Bounding Missile, which I think is not intended.

 

9rod6vk.jpg

Edited by dunehunter
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Evokers gain more from power level partly because evocation spells are the only ones that gain additional projectiles. Druid and Chanter spells with projectiles don't gain more projectiles at any power level. (One could argue that the presence of "Twin" and "Seven" in the names precludes having more projectiles at any power level, but I don't find that convincing. An empowered version of the spell at least should be able to have more projectiles. The other argument is that Twin Stones gains more from an extra projectile because it only starts with two. But Bounding Missiles starts with three. And the Twin Stones projectiles are at an angle to each other so it's difficult to hit the same target with both. The Twin Stones AoE is powerful but only triggers if you hit a solid boundary in the environment. Perhaps one projectile / two power levels is too much for twin stones but one projectile / 3 or 4 power levels seems fine. OTOH seven nights starts with seven projectiles so each extra projectile is only 1/7th extra damage as opposed to 1/5th for Minor/Concussive missiles and 1/3rd (+ jumps) for Bounding Missiles.)

 

On enemy spell-casters: I'm 99% sure the Delemgan's (Druid caster showcase) Summon Blight always summons an Earth blight. Druid summons would be great (aside from casting time, though cat flurry helps) if you had a good chance of getting the right Blight for the situation, but you only have a 1/5th chance of that, and an equal chance of getting a blight that's bad for those particular enemies' resistances and damage types. The blights are different enough that they can't all easily take the same role, and you can't build your party around synchronizing with them. It would be better if you could either choose which blight you get or take a version of the spell which only gives you a specific blight (or if the blights were made more powerful to compensate for the randomness).

 

Druid does get Projection spells, you forget Fire Bug :p but it comes super late compare to wizard.

 

DoT, projection, jump spell get more benefits from Empower as Empower not only boost accuracy, pen and basic damage, but also boost duration, project and jump number. So these spells are boosted twice by Empower right now than plain blast...

 

Specially Ray like spell get a lot from Empower, since they usually tick very fast and have a short duration. Empower have a flat bonus to duration really make these spells overpowered. You can try Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring with/without Empower and the difference is huge. (even Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring is already super powerful without Empower.)

 

 

Fire Bug's description doesn't mention projectiles or number of projectiles at all... only jump. It would be good if it had multiple projectiles....

 

Jump spells would be better if they could "jump" back to a target they've hit before. 

 

Btw Ninagauth's Shadowflame is pretty good for a pre-cast spell---9 second cast time but only one second recovery. (Stronger fireball that does cold damage and paralyzes for base 6 seconds.)

 

 

Why would you think Jump spell doesn't jump back to original target? They do jump back.

 

But the bouncing mechanism is not welcoming for additional jumps, the more it bounces the less the damage is. Except Bounding Missile, which I think is not intended.

 

9rod6vk.jpg

 

 

Ah, the Skulking Terror and Aegis of Decay encounter must be bugged then (or the Aegis is different from an ordinary enemy) because it won't jump back to a previously hit target there. But it will jump back in other encounters, and that does make jump effects better....

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Evokers gain more from power level partly because evocation spells are the only ones that gain additional projectiles. Druid and Chanter spells with projectiles don't gain more projectiles at any power level. (One could argue that the presence of "Twin" and "Seven" in the names precludes having more projectiles at any power level, but I don't find that convincing. An empowered version of the spell at least should be able to have more projectiles. The other argument is that Twin Stones gains more from an extra projectile because it only starts with two. But Bounding Missiles starts with three. And the Twin Stones projectiles are at an angle to each other so it's difficult to hit the same target with both. The Twin Stones AoE is powerful but only triggers if you hit a solid boundary in the environment. Perhaps one projectile / two power levels is too much for twin stones but one projectile / 3 or 4 power levels seems fine. OTOH seven nights starts with seven projectiles so each extra projectile is only 1/7th extra damage as opposed to 1/5th for Minor/Concussive missiles and 1/3rd (+ jumps) for Bounding Missiles.)

 

On enemy spell-casters: I'm 99% sure the Delemgan's (Druid caster showcase) Summon Blight always summons an Earth blight. Druid summons would be great (aside from casting time, though cat flurry helps) if you had a good chance of getting the right Blight for the situation, but you only have a 1/5th chance of that, and an equal chance of getting a blight that's bad for those particular enemies' resistances and damage types. The blights are different enough that they can't all easily take the same role, and you can't build your party around synchronizing with them. It would be better if you could either choose which blight you get or take a version of the spell which only gives you a specific blight (or if the blights were made more powerful to compensate for the randomness).

 

Druid does get Projection spells, you forget Fire Bug :p but it comes super late compare to wizard.

 

DoT, projection, jump spell get more benefits from Empower as Empower not only boost accuracy, pen and basic damage, but also boost duration, project and jump number. So these spells are boosted twice by Empower right now than plain blast...

 

Specially Ray like spell get a lot from Empower, since they usually tick very fast and have a short duration. Empower have a flat bonus to duration really make these spells overpowered. You can try Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring with/without Empower and the difference is huge. (even Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring is already super powerful without Empower.)

 

 

Fire Bug's description doesn't mention projectiles or number of projectiles at all... only jump. It would be good if it had multiple projectiles....

 

Jump spells would be better if they could "jump" back to a target they've hit before. 

 

Btw Ninagauth's Shadowflame is pretty good for a pre-cast spell---9 second cast time but only one second recovery. (Stronger fireball that does cold damage and paralyzes for base 6 seconds.)

 

 

Why would you think Jump spell doesn't jump back to original target? They do jump back.

 

But the bouncing mechanism is not welcoming for additional jumps, the more it bounces the less the damage is. Except Bounding Missile, which I think is not intended.

 

9rod6vk.jpg

 

 

Where did you get those rotghasts? Summoned via console?

 

Gonna go post that up in the missing string compilation thread.

Edited by smjjames
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The whole "summoned weapons" vs. "self-buffs" argument is more about semantics than anything. The problem is not to decide whether summoned weapons are self-buffs or not; it's to make the game fun. Right now, casters aren't much fun because they are slow; summoned weapons aren't fun because by the time they've been conjured, combat's almost over anyway. I'm already spending a spell pick to acquire them; do I also need to expose myself to the risk of losing them to interruption while I give up on 6s of DPS? Bit of a steep cost for a weapon that isn't significantly better than regular, non-summoned ones.

 

There are self-buff that grant you Concentration if you are afraid of your spell get interrupted, and almost all these buff are instantly casted. But yeah I agree 6 sec is a bit too long.

 

Right. So in order for my summoned-weapons fighter to be effective, I have to cast a spell *before* I can summon my weapon, thus requiring *two* spells to be cast before I can walk up and smack a dude in the face.

 

Not fun.

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Where did you get those rotghasts? Summoned via console?

 

Open console, type Iroll20s, then reopen and type SpawnPre[hit tab to complete the command] cre_dummy.

 

This will place a cre_dummy where the mouse cursor is. If you reopen the console and hit the arrow-up key you can cycle through your command history, repeating the spawn process very quickly. It only takes a few seconds to place a small army of dummies.

 

They also get spawned into the fog of war if you cursor is there (not visible for you yet) and might trigger combat with "civilians".

 

The cre_dummy can't move and has a lot of health but low defenses. He starts hostile and will trigger combat mode if you get close.

Edited by Boeroer

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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I've posted this in the general discussion for PoE 2, but I think it will get a bit more coverage here both for the fanbase and (hopefully) for the devs too. I think Resolve should modify casting speed, and Strength should just become Might once again. In terms of its implication on Dexterity, I think it should still keep a 3% overall action speed increase, but also offer a 4% or 5% attack speed increase (whereas Resolve would just get the spell-casting increase, probably at a 5% or 6% level given how onerous the spell casting times currently are). By this I mean, "5% physical attack speed increase, 3% speed increase to all other actions" (not an 8% increase if I wasn't clear).

 

How I see this translating mechanically is:

 

1) It tackles the long casting times, which are an un-fun mechanic. I think longer casting times are a necessary evil given the move away from Vancian casting and an interrupt system, however I think it's wrong to not empower a player to be able to do anything about it - it feels like a punishment. This should also balance casters with melee classes if pitched at the right level.

 

2) It gives casters a large number of attribute dependancies (Resolve, Might, Intellect). To me this is fine, huge and damaging AoEs are powerful, having to put a little effort in forge an appropriate caster attribute spread seems like an appropriate counter measure - and self-moderates spell power (e.g. if you pump Might maximally, your casting time and AoE size suffer, etc.).

 

3) It makes Dexterity more worthwhile. In PoE 1, no one really cared about Dexterity to a large extent, they would typically focus on recovery reduction instead. Giving it an additional bump to melee attack speed makes it more of a consideration for melee DPS builds, and if you want a ninja-fast spell caster you would need both Resolve and Dexterity to optimise your speed. It makes Dexterity more relevant compared to what it was in PoE 1.

 

It also goes without saying that this keeps all the attributes true to their PoE 1 roots, without any bastardisation (whether this is a good or bad thing is totally subjective). Resolve now would function more or less like it did in PoE 1 by letting you get your spells out faster (as interrupts increased casting time in PoE 1, and... well... increased casting time is increasing casting time in PoE 2). I think if a new punitive mechanic is introduced into a game (which the very lengthy casting time more or less is), the devs should definitely be considering offering a new advantage to counteract that mechanic.

 

Good idea? Bad idea? I don't have access to the beta, but it seems like a large number of people think the increased casting time is currently a problem - and this somewhat addresses that.

Edited by Jojobobo
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Let Res reduce cast time seems duplicate it’s function with Dex. And in concept aspect, I don’t understand why a more determined person can caster faster than a normal one.

 

But @Jojobobo I remember John mentioned about let Concentration also give character power level, so what about let each point of Res boost any power level bonus by 5%. So if a buff or item gives u +1 power level. A 20 Res character can get 50% more power level from the Spell/item.

 

Since now almost all Spell bonus is tied to power level, boost power level seems to be an universal bonus for casters. Meleer still get deflection and some of their ability use power level, such as self buff ones so Res will not be a dump for them.

 

And one more thing is Empower, a 20 Res character can get 15 power level from Empower instead of 10, this make sense to me because a more determined person can make a harder strike when he gathers his inner power.

 

Or maybe more directly, each point of Res grant u power level, for example 0.1 power level per Res. This is better for classes that cannot get power level bonus, but highly rely on them.

Edited by dunehunter
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Since now almost all Spell bonus is tied to power level, boost power level seems to be an universal bonus for casters. Meleer still get deflection and some of their ability use power level, such as self buff ones so Res will not be a dump for them.

 

 

Ok. And what about ranged weapon users?

Vancian =/= per rest.

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Let Res reduce cast time seems duplicate it’s function with Dex. And in concept aspect, I don’t understand why a more determined person can caster faster than a normal one.

I think an argument could be made that someone who was wilful would have a better command of magic and that could translate to faster casting - their desire to enact a spell is stronger and so they're better able to make it happen. You could also have it effect ability casting to for all the classes, and modify existing ability times accordingly (likely extend them a little, but not to the same degree we currently see for spells).

 

To me it seems like lengthy casting time - as a borderline new mechanic - needs a specific form of address. While giving Resolve as casting speed increase would give it a bit of functional overlap with Dexterity, Dexterity itself already has functional overlap with recovery reducing effects, so I don't think adding a different sort of functional overlap is such an egregious thing to do (and Dexterity would be buffed for physical attack speed too to make sure it isn't so infringed upon conceptually).

 

Personally (though again this is subjective), I think a little overlap with Dexterity is a more elegant approach than shovelling a load of benefits originally belonging to Might into Resolve. I also do think the angle of giving casters a lot of attribute dependencies does make their power more or less self-regulating, as by pumping any one particular attribute very high you naturally can't buff a different beneficial attribute to the same degree - subtly enforcing a balanced approach to attribute distribution (rather than, "I'm a caster, I'm going to dump Strength," like we currently have).

Edited by Jojobobo
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Even if Res will boost cast speed, players will still pick 3 sec spells than 6 sec ones. Because with Res and Dex both increase cast speed, 3 sec spells becomes super fast.

 

I think cast time still need to be fixed in its own system, not depends on outside factors.

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I also posted this in the other thread, but will ripropose it here: casting times should fixed on their own first, before we discuss an attribute that affects casting speed.

 

If we left casting times as they are right now, any attribute affecting them would become an absolute must-pump lest your casters can contribute nothing meaningful to combat and/or are unfun.

 

It would be poor design to leave casting times at their current unfun level and chip in an attribute to ameliorate it.

  • Like 7

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Since now almost all Spell bonus is tied to power level, boost power level seems to be an universal bonus for casters. Meleer still get deflection and some of their ability use power level, such as self buff ones so Res will not be a dump for them.

 

Ok. And what about ranged weapon users?

If Res is tied to Power level, then at least a ranged Cipher or Chanter will not dump it. But yeah other ranged weapon user like ranger and rogue will still dump Res.

 

It is hard to make a stats that benefit all builds. Even Dex can be a dump stats for retaliation builds...

 

But make Res ties to power level do covers a lot more builds than before.

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I also posted this in the other thread, but will ripropose it here: casting times should fixed on their own first, before we discuss an attribute that affects casting speed.

 

If we left casting times as they are right now, any attribute affecting them would become an absolute must-pump lest your casters can contribute nothing meaningful to combat and/or are unfun.

 

It would be poor design to leave casting times at their current unfun level and chip in an attribute to ameliorate it.

Yeah, I guess that's the trouble when I post the same idea in several threads!

 

I agree with this more or less - if Resolve was offering a casting speed increase then casters should still be viable at the base level of 10 Resolve (but maybe feeling slightly below optimal to make an attribute benefit make sense). In this case, you need to do a lot of the adjustment legwork first really, and then think more about the ramifications of an adjustment stat.

 

At the very least, if you make spell-casting faster, and then added in an adjustment stat, and then it was too powerful - you now have a much better framework for the kind of adjustments that make sense in order to introduce a bit of nerf back into the casting time.

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Where did you get those rotghasts? Summoned via console?

Open console, type Iroll20s, then reopen and type SpawnPre[hit tab to complete the command] cre_dummy.

 

This will place a cre_dummy where the mouse cursor is. If you reopen the console and hit the arrow-up key you can cycle through your command history, repeating the spawn process very quickly. It only takes a few seconds to place a small army of dummies.

 

They also get spawned into the fog of war if you cursor is there (not visible for you yet) and might trigger combat with "civilians".

 

The cre_dummy can't move and has a lot of health but low defenses. He starts hostile and will trigger combat mode if you get close.

 

 

I figured they were summoned via console. No idea whether the missing string coming from those counts as a valid bug since you're technically doing something you wouldn't ordinarily do, but I posted it in the *missing string XXX* thread anyway.

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Dexteroty should effect action speed, attaching it to resolve seems superflous. Of course as already stated, even if you could pump cast speed up the 6 sec cast time isn't going to be used regularly if at all. Playing more of the beta and playing more PoE, I seriously think that MaxQuests table 3 suggestion is best and would take it further by making outside of combat casts being instant, if only so I'm not waiting around for a while watching the AI stumble around. 6 sec casts should be stuff like Meteor Swarm and 9 sec casts should be thrown in the trash.

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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I've still not seen anything better for Resolve than having it affect the duration of afflictions cast on you like a reverse Intellect. Then put all damage back into Might and move the deflection boost to Perception.

 

There everything is fixed!!!!

 

Imported characters will still be similar in the new game. Nothing is a dump stat. Order is restored to the multiverse :)

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I've still not seen anything better for Resolve than having it affect the duration of afflictions cast on you like a reverse Intellect. Then put all damage back into Might and move the deflection boost to Perception.

 

There everything is fixed!!!!

 

Imported characters will still be similar in the new game. Nothing is a dump stat. Order is restored to the multiverse :)

How would that work, a negative that subtracts from the enemy Intellect for duration?

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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I've still not seen anything better for Resolve than having it affect the duration of afflictions cast on you like a reverse Intellect. Then put all damage back into Might and move the deflection boost to Perception.

 

There everything is fixed!!!!

 

Imported characters will still be similar in the new game. Nothing is a dump stat. Order is restored to the multiverse :)

How would that work, a negative that subtracts from the enemy Intellect for duration?

 

 

Basically yes.

 

Example:

 

Enemy casts 10 second duration spell on you. He has 12 Intellect so gets +10% duration. You have a 15 Resolve so you get a -25% duration. Depending on how the math works you could end up with only 8.5 seconds of hostile effect or so.

 

You dump Resolve to a 3 and you'd have a +35% duration so it'd be 14.5 seconds.

 

It even fits thematically as a strong Resolve lets you shake off harmful effects while being a coward makes you more susceptible. 

 

The argument about Might affecting all damage was hashed out before PoE and all encompassing Might won.

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I've still not seen anything better for Resolve than having it affect the duration of afflictions cast on you like a reverse Intellect. Then put all damage back into Might and move the deflection boost to Perception.

 

There everything is fixed!!!!

 

Imported characters will still be similar in the new game. Nothing is a dump stat. Order is restored to the multiverse :)

I like that idea, maybe more so than my own of the casting speed. I think it's important to at least give it some new benefit, rather than just taking those of Might - possibly it could still get healing but Resolve needs to be made a risky dump for all classes I would say.

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