Politics - Jason X

[Gfted1]

^See it just seems stupid to me. I mean, if they really felt in their hearts that kneeling was doing something positive, then fine. But this whole production stinks of; "What? Trump said we were weiners for doing this? THEN I'LL DO IT MORE!!!!!1"

[Hurlshort]

He did a bit more than call them weiners.

[Guard Dog]

Yeah, it's like Gifted said. And Gromnir earlier. It's not ABOUT anything. It's billows in a ladle. A tempest in a teapot. They are only doing it to drive certain people nuts and the more they go nuts the more they do it. It's actually pretty funny.

[injurai]

At this point I find it's as much of a protest against supposed "free speech absolutists" who in actuality take issue with the kneeling because they want the NFL to sell them an identity, as it is a protest against the anthem of a nation that has issues with police brutality against minorities. The NFL should be about the sport, not about selling anyone a contrived pretense of national identity. If players want to use the platform they have worked to be part of to express their free speech rights, then let them.

 

I also think a lot of folks believe that people who are losing their heads on account of the act being allegedly disrespectful have an ulterior motive. Especially going back to Kaepernick. There is this desire people have for others to fall in-line over national pride, but not everyone is proud of what our nation has done or is doing. That apparently isn't obvious for some people, and they want to socially ostracize people not falling in line. I personally think the continued kneeing is a form of solidarity against that social ostracism that some are trying to bring about upon the players. I'm glad more players, coaches and team owners are not caving, and instead standing by the player's freedom.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Yeah, Americans, be proud of your football teams. In some countries over here, they have lots of die-hard fans, although the sport itself is hardly existent. Most of these teams are global forces, not nationalistic American institutes. That notion is bizarre. Imagine if Manchester United simply was regarded as some sort of nationalistic soccer symbol in the UK, accompanied by obligatory God Save the Queen and Rule Britannia, when instead it's one of the most internationally embraced soccer clubs. 

 

The kneeling seems indeed to be acts of solidarity, which have become tiny thorns in the side of the apricot leviathan. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by IndiraLightfoot

[Guard Dog]

Here are some things that are more disrespectful to the American flag than not standing:

 

• Secret Courts
• Supporting on terrorist group because they are fighting another one
• Threatening to attack other countries
• Actually attacking other countries for bad reasons or no reasons and perpetuating the conflict forever
• Free Speech zones
• Bailouts
• Using taxpayer money to prop up private banks and enterprises
• Using taxpayer dollars to prop up foreign government that brutalize their own people are help terrorists kill ours.
• Allowing business interests to dictate foreign policy. 
• Career politician.
• A Federal Government that ignores the Constitution
• A Federal Government that uses the IRS to punish people who complain about them ignoring the Constitution.
• A Federal Government that thinks they can kill American citizens with weaponized drones and no due process.
• Shooting unarmed suspects
• Killing family pets, destroying personal property, and terrorizing children during no-knock raids at the wrong address.
• Running up $20.4T in debt. Spending $585 Billion more than they raised in 2016. Spending even more this year.
• Gun Control
• Using Imminent Domain to seize citizens homes and sell them to a 3rd party.
• Forcing citizens to purchase a product they don't want under threat.
• Prosecuting people who expose government corruption.
• The Executive usurping the power of the Legislature. The Federal Government usurping the power of the States.
• Long sentences in Federal prisons for victim less crimes that harmed no one.

 

What exactly was it I'm supposed to be outraged over again?

[ShadySands]

I can only speak for myself and at first I just didn't care about this at all and even when people couldn't ignore it and started getting upset I still didn't care. It's wasn't until the all the cries about how it was disrespectful to x/y/z groups that I started to care because I don't like people saying you have to fall in line with what they say to be patriotic and even more than that I just really don't like people getting offended on my behalf. 

 

I can get myself worked up over nothing all by myself, thank you very much. Plus, I can't deny that there is some measure of satisfaction in getting those people worked up even more than they already are.

 

Edit -  It's not like vets are united on this issue either

Edited September 26, 2017 by ShadySands

[Malcador]

Nice to sneak Gun Control in that list

 

Patriotism is pretty mindless when you think about it, is why I detest football fans, people want to act all ultra and get passionate over a symbol, a shirt or 11 dudes sweating on a field.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Malcador

[redneckdevil]

Now the one vet from the Steelers who stood is now apologizing bc his coach and team said he made them look bad.

 

So with this pointless outrage with the NFL (I do hope they lose business simply bc I detest that govt pays the multibillion dollar NFL to have the huge stadiums made...), is anyone else wondering what's going on elsewhere?

[Hurlshort]

Yeah, it's like Gifted said. And Gromnir earlier. It's not ABOUT anything. It's billows in a ladle. A tempest in a teapot. They are only doing it to drive certain people nuts and the more they go nuts the more they do it. It's actually pretty funny.

 

I disagree. 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/30/black-power-salute-1968-olympics

 

Read the story.

[ShadySands]

Now the one vet from the Steelers who stood is now apologizing bc his coach and team said he made them look bad.

The story from his own mouth, if anyone is interested

[Malcador]

How he didn't see that would be a problem is curious.

[213374U]

Here are some things that are more disrespectful to the American flag than not standing:

 

• Secret Courts
• Supporting on terrorist group because they are fighting another one
• Threatening to attack other countries
• Actually attacking other countries for bad reasons or no reasons and perpetuating the conflict forever
• Free Speech zones
• Bailouts
• Using taxpayer money to prop up private banks and enterprises
• Using taxpayer dollars to prop up foreign government that brutalize their own people are help terrorists kill ours.
• Allowing business interests to dictate foreign policy. 
• Career politician.
• A Federal Government that ignores the Constitution
• A Federal Government that uses the IRS to punish people who complain about them ignoring the Constitution.
• A Federal Government that thinks they can kill American citizens with weaponized drones and no due process.
• Shooting unarmed suspects
• Killing family pets, destroying personal property, and terrorizing children during no-knock raids at the wrong address.
• Running up $20.4T in debt. Spending $585 Billion more than they raised in 2016. Spending even more this year.
• Gun Control
• Using Imminent Domain to seize citizens homes and sell them to a 3rd party.
• Forcing citizens to purchase a product they don't want under threat.
• Prosecuting people who expose government corruption.
• The Executive usurping the power of the Legislature. The Federal Government usurping the power of the States.
• Long sentences in Federal prisons for victim less crimes that harmed no one.

 

What exactly was it I'm supposed to be outraged over again?

 

Who are you and what have you done with Guard Dog?

[Zoraptor]

Eh, that's consistent with what GD has said. If it were say WoD's list, then it would be inconsistent since he has a rather more "it's OK when my side does it" approach to certain things. I do feel vaguely compelled to point out that it's 'Eminent Domain' rather than 'imminent domain' though.

 

Patriotism is pretty mindless when you think about it, is why I detest football fans, people want to act all ultra and get passionate over a symbol, a shirt or 11 dudes sweating on a field.

 

But if I cannot bask in the achievements of the mighty All Blacks® then I might have to look at my own personal achievements instead...

[Gfted1]

That Cheshire grin says that JJ has figured out how to make another Billion from this move.

[SonicMage117]

 

Well, let's be completely realistic here... it's always free-speech until someone gets offended, or at least that that's what people want to believe, where the SJW's come in (annoying people) but, in more serious matters there are certain lines which sane/mature people know shouldn't be crossed... too many cases where people do somethimg like give a verbal death threat and then claim "I didn't actually do it, I'm just using my freedom of speech" It's creepy that anyone would try to justify that juvenile behavior with "freedom of speech".

 

That goes for general public as well as the threats to assassinate the president, of course only to be followed days later with the usual "It was just a joke" or a similar response. There was a time when people had more respect but now everything is excusable or justifyable in the liberals' eyes by some form and as so, still doesn't make them right.

 

Liberals often get angry when I challenge them by asking "One day if you get a girlfriend or get married and have kids, will you let someone threaten the people you love? What if your loved one commits suicide because of it? I cant believe you would be okay with this." And they get very angry because their hypocrisy is then realized and then there's no way to really contest it. It's always okay to dish out that stuff, until the shoes are on the other foot. It's perhaps, something worth thinking about.

 

 

 

How far does one's freedom exclude one from the consequences of one's actions? The answer surely isn't "Well it's my freedom so I do what I want with it" Isn't that the crimminal mindset? What are your thoughts on that?

And you're spun up about people being mean to Trump.

No.

[SonicMage117]

Ah yes, it makes me feel much better to know these guys aren't carrying Nazi flags. Just another frat out on the town!

 

 

This looks like a friendly protest group:

 

Lol indeed!

 

They all do seem friendly when it comes to politics everyone who is/was offended desires to offend or bring down. Thus, marking the old "friendly protest" and excusing it with the right to freedom of speech or expression XD

[Guard Dog]

 

Yeah, it's like Gifted said. And Gromnir earlier. It's not ABOUT anything. It's billows in a ladle. A tempest in a teapot. They are only doing it to drive certain people nuts and the more they go nuts the more they do it. It's actually pretty funny.

 

I disagree. 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/30/black-power-salute-1968-olympics

 

Read the story.

 

No, do not conflate these two things. Totally different men, different time, different kind of protest and message.

[Guard Dog]

 

Here are some things that are more disrespectful to the American flag than not standing:

 

• Secret Courts
• Supporting on terrorist group because they are fighting another one
• Threatening to attack other countries
• Actually attacking other countries for bad reasons or no reasons and perpetuating the conflict forever
• Free Speech zones
• Bailouts
• Using taxpayer money to prop up private banks and enterprises
• Using taxpayer dollars to prop up foreign government that brutalize their own people are help terrorists kill ours.
• Allowing business interests to dictate foreign policy. 
• Career politician.
• A Federal Government that ignores the Constitution
• A Federal Government that uses the IRS to punish people who complain about them ignoring the Constitution.
• A Federal Government that thinks they can kill American citizens with weaponized drones and no due process.
• Shooting unarmed suspects
• Killing family pets, destroying personal property, and terrorizing children during no-knock raids at the wrong address.
• Running up $20.4T in debt. Spending $585 Billion more than they raised in 2016. Spending even more this year.
• Gun Control
• Using Imminent Domain to seize citizens homes and sell them to a 3rd party.
• Forcing citizens to purchase a product they don't want under threat.
• Prosecuting people who expose government corruption.
• The Executive usurping the power of the Legislature. The Federal Government usurping the power of the States.
• Long sentences in Federal prisons for victim less crimes that harmed no one.

 

What exactly was it I'm supposed to be outraged over again?

 

Who are you and what have you done with Guard Dog?

 

I think I have been very consistent these last 13 years. Whose posts have YOU been reading?

[Hurlshort]

Is it, though? John Carlos does not agree.

 

I would have agreed with you until the President spoke out against it. When he basically said the NFL should force these men to stand, I realized how important it is that they have the freedom to kneel. I'm extremely impressed by the response of the owners and the league. That, much more than anything else, shows how far we've come since 1968. 

[Hurlshort]

Thinking on it a bit longer, there is nothing wrong with seeing this protest as an insult to the flag and what it stands for. I've heard a lot of veterans voice their concerns that they fought for that symbol. I would never tell a Veteran that they are wrong to hold that opinion. That being said, I would also never tell a black person that they are wrong for protesting against racial inequalities. I've seen a lot of white people trying to explain that this is the wrong way to do it. They want these athletes fired or they want the NFL to make them stand. They want race and politics out of their sports. The President has joined in on that chorus. That sounds crazy to me. You are only strengthening the point these athletes have been making. The answer to a protest about oppression is not to oppress. 

[injurai]

To extend my thoughts as well.

 

People are kneeling because one day they want to stand for the flag and have it be meaningful. For now these people feel there are things to be ashamed of. Kneeling is a commitment to what the flag could be, not to a desire dispense with it. The demonstrations are indicative of a crossroad, and the reason why what once was a brief demonstration now returns in force is because participation has become a form of communal acknowledgement at a national level of the crossroad itself. That's why even owner's and coaches are involved. While not everyone standing is a bigot, racist, or nazi and yes you still get those immature lefties **** slinging at a moment like this instead of using their perfect opportunity to hold their heads high. I think it's largely becoming recognized that the patriotic thing during this crossroads is to lift a veil of willful ignorance, an ignorance that only becoming clearer with time. It's to not let this movement to be taken from the people and turned into a false connection that promotes division or disorderly BLM incidences. It's in actuality a move against the pundit hair splitting, where a consolation acknowledgement of brutality is given whilst turncoating back to conservative nitpicks a moment later; these days everyone knows this pundit move whether they want to admit it or not. People know that by kneeling, they are actually standing. Standing for free speech, peaceful protest, and defending the clarity of a movement that is about rectifying injustices by the truncheon's hand.

 

If you're dubious over whether people really think as I say they do, I'd argue much of this is latent. It's only just starting to be articulated, and even when it is it hardly makes it's way through channels of media that can reach a nation. Yet those in the position to see none the less want it to be about nothing, they want it to be nothing more than liberal indignation. For them it is to be minor, to be forgotten. They will let you know of their surprise over how people keep talking about it all. You start to notice that these people want a great deal that is important to others to be about nothing. Ignorance, much like debt, has become a modern asset in and of itself. It's become a shield the fend off other nastier remarks when you don't want to cede ground. It's the conservative form of post-modernism.

[Bartimaeus]

Interestingly, it wasn't even until 2009 that teams came out for the national anthem anyways - until the Department of Defense started funneling money into the NFL to try to boost recruiting. Hmph.

[SonicMage117]

I agree with you guys and I don't stand with the conservatives either, there is no point in trying to falsely justify this protest or defend the argument any longer because no matter what is said, at the end of the day the battle will never end and it's foolish for anyone to think so.

 

Sure we can be free to make such small stands and claims such as these, and we can do everything we can to make them as loud as possible but in the end what good does it ever do? Even such a tragedy as September 11, 2001 only bonds a nation together for a small time until people forget it actually happened and move on with their lives. I suppose the answer would be going with the flow of acceptance and to be momentarily a part of something which will become nothing, the embrace of socialist acception that is without any baring of any fruit. I mean, this event won't change anything and will be a mere vapor within the coming weeks.

 

What impact it has if any at all :/ I will await the day when my kids come home from school and tell me the tale of the football team who took a knee. Btw, Cowboys are my team!

 

Edit: Sorry for bad English lol

Edited September 27, 2017 by SonicMage117

[SonicMage117]

Share your anger lol Saw this post, thought you guys would like it. Cowboys my team though no matter what, even if it is gonna get alot of shares.