Politics Episode 8: WWF Edition

[injurai]

If it was a truly free market, then prices would be set based on old people who have banked savings and are fully vested into their insurance policies. They would also rise significantly due to the rich people around the world using it to side step their nations socialized health.

 

Health needs to be regulated in some regard. The major problem I see with it is that you need to pay doctors well to lure them into such a grueling highly regulated industry. You need to pay them well to justify their years of training. You need to pay them well so those that got through on loans can pay them back. They negotiate ask for a lot from the insurance companies because they are worth a lot.

 

If the market was free, they'd still jack the prices up as long as they were maximizing profit. You'd have lesser institutions coming in and serving the bottom rung with a lesser services. You'd be back to square 1.

 

That said, I'm not convinced a single payer system won't do significant damage to the world medical industry. America's system works hard for the whole world, not just her people. So it's always funny to see people in Europe acting like righteous for all the medical advances that are the result of the US's industry. It's really the insurance companies greed to hold onto their own wealth that bargains medical prices down, not the individual payer. So having a single state payer would really gut the financing of the US industry.

[HoonDing]

Just let it fail.

[Namutree]

I've been wondered why in a capitalist country we are in, why don't we let that work for our health insurance and medical bills?

 

Same reason why we have eminent domain and government bailouts, we aren't a capitalist country anymore. We are a dysfunctional hybrid of contradicting ideas whose remaining prosperity is due to the infrastructure and systems established by classical liberals that have YET to fully removed. Don't worry though; it's on it's last legs.

[Gorgon]

With universal health care it's done for cost. The invisible hand of Capitalism can't compete with that, whatever they tell you. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

With universal health care it's done for cost. The invisible hand of Capitalism can't compete with that, whatever they tell you.

 

The invisible hand sucks because when you expect it to tug on something it ends up pushing its finger into something else. Sneaky bastard.

[Hurlshort]

 

I've been wondered why in a capitalist country we are in, why don't we let that work for our health insurance and medical bills?

 

Same reason why we have eminent domain and government bailouts, we aren't a capitalist country anymore. We are a dysfunctional hybrid of contradicting ideas whose remaining prosperity is due to the infrastructure and systems established by classical liberals that have YET to fully removed. Don't worry though; it's on it's last legs.

 

 

We still lead the world in dramatic hyperbole, at least.

 

There is a rather long list of US companies that are industry leaders in innovation that would seem to refute your claims.

[Zoraptor]

With universal health care it's done for cost. The invisible hand of Capitalism can't compete with that, whatever they tell you. 

 

Capitalism just plain doesn't work well with 'public good' stuff because you either cannot put a dollar value on it or someone else pays when things go bad. Healthcare is just not like going to a shop to buy an apple or something more significant like building a house.

 

When you want healthcare you want to get well. But the vendor only makes money if you're sick, so it's always in their economic interest for you not to die, but only to be sufficiently well that you can keep paying for treatment*. Add in insurance and it's in their best interests for you not to get sick (which fits your best interests as well) but if you do get sick then their best interest is for it to cost the minimum amount. There's also the fact that if you need healthcare you generally need healthcare in a way you don't need to build a house or buy an apple, it's often not an option where you have unlimited time to wait, rent a house or buy a banana instead.

 

Socialising it keeps the minimum cost motivation, but it means that there's also a big motivation to make sure people don't get sick at all, and are fixed quickly and effectively if they do. The bad aspect is that there will be cases where the cost to the whole to fix an individual is too high, but it isn't like that isn't the case in a privatised/ capitalist system anyway.

 

*It also incentivises stuff like the painkiller addiction epidemic in the US. Prescribe painkillers, person gets addicted, continued profit. Prescribe painkillers, person doesn't get addicted, far more limited profit. Social costs of addiction, they're socialised of course, it's in the name!

[Namutree]

 

 

I've been wondered why in a capitalist country we are in, why don't we let that work for our health insurance and medical bills?

 

Same reason why we have eminent domain and government bailouts, we aren't a capitalist country anymore. We are a dysfunctional hybrid of contradicting ideas whose remaining prosperity is due to the infrastructure and systems established by classical liberals that have YET to fully removed. Don't worry though; it's on it's last legs.

 

 

We still lead the world in dramatic hyperbole, at least.

 

There is a rather long list of US companies that are industry leaders in innovation that would seem to refute your claims.

 

Which ones?

[Hurlshort]

Are you sure this isn't supposed to be in blue text?

 

https://www.fastcompany.com/most-innovative-companies/2017

 

Here is a neat visual map I found too:

 

http://fortune.com/fortune500/visualizations/?iid=recirc_f500landing-zone1

 

I mean, can you really name a tech company that has the reach of Apple or Google worldwide? I suppose Samsung and Sony are fairly close. I'm all for a healthy dose of cynicism, but you are crossing into the ridiculous with your talk. The country isn't going collapse anytime soon. 

[ShadySands]

Jeff Sessions Wants Cops to Seize More Money From Suspected Criminals

[Volourn]

No assets should be taken without a conviction. PERIOD.

 

Any other concept is evil Nazism. END OF LINE.

 

EVIL.

[Raithe]

Well, just to jump away from health care and consider cyber-security...

 

Bloomberg - Tillerson is said to shut cyber-office in State Department reorganisation

[Raithe]

Ah, and for the other joys..

 

Independent - I'm a climate scientist in Alaska. Donald Trump has made me a whistleblower

[Hurlshort]

Interesting twist from all the border wall and NAFTA stuff.

 

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN17K2HC

[Gorgon]

They are going at it again:

 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/07/20/jew-becoming-common-insult-berlin-schools-antisemitism-rises/

All of that Breitbart all the time is unhealthy, you should get out, get some sun, feel the wind on your face. 

[Gorgon]

Crybaby

[Gorgon]

Me neither. 

[Wrath of Dagon]

Interesting twist from all the border wall and NAFTA stuff.

 

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN17K2HC

Good, may be they'll liberalize their immigration policies wrt other Latin American countries.

[Ben No.3]

They are going at it again:

 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/07/20/jew-becoming-common-insult-berlin-schools-antisemitism-rises/

Don't worry; it's Berlin... if any one of these children will continue to have those views, Antifa (which in Germany, quite uniquely, is much more pro Israel) will beat them up faster than they can say "Osama did nothing wrong".

 

On a more serious note... the breitbart article actually made one good point.

"Another major revelation in the study was that children from migrant backgrounds identify less and less with their former ethnicity and more with their common religion of Islam."

This is very true. And it's true across many of the Muslim countries. Pakistan is only held together by Islam, a fear of India and, mainly, the police and military. Perhaps not all too unsimilar to some of the late-stage communist countries were. And again quite similarly, many only manage through brutal tyranny.

Really, the reason for all this are the terribly drawn borders... the Middle East could've been easily separated into Sunnis, Schiiten and Kurds. But no...

Edited July 20, 2017 by Ben No.3

[Gorgon]

 

Me neither. 

 

 

 

Following a discussion in the moderation team, your account has been placed on moderated review for a period of no less than 3 weeks - pending discussion on whether or not this should be extended - in response to multiple violations to the forum guidelines.

 

Are you not a moderator? You wanted to make a jab at me and you stepped into hornet nest, so run away and  stop embarrassing yourself. 

 

If memory serves you got yourself there by saying that trans people were worse than serial killers. Now, that's something other than a simple disagreement, that's against the forum rules.

 

Entirely your own mess. 

[Chilloutman]

chillout dudes

[Gorgon]

lol

[Hurlshort]

I'm pretty sure I reported Sharp_One for the trans comment. Although I believe I wasn't the only one. Honestly it is hard of keep track. 

[Chilloutman]

I'm pretty sure I reported Sharp_One for the trans comment. Although I believe I wasn't the only one. Honestly it is hard of keep track. 

 

not cool

[HoonDing]

Why would anyone even be bothered by Sharp_One? He tells it like it is.