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PrimeHydra

Expansion Hopes: Sequential, not Parallel (for the Most Part)

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 Sure, that is all true. I guess, I didn't really express my mind well as it is not the lack of explanation that bothers me. I think it is just how separate the expansion feels from the base game. New map, kinda different design (more packed and focused). 

I feel like it should be more closely tied to the game, if it is going to be a parallel expension.

 

Yeah, I agree that it tends to be less jarring when such content clings more closely to the base. Especially in games like Pillars 1 and 2, where the stakes for resolving the plot are saving your sanity in the first game and, quite possibly, what's left of your soul in the second, it seems extremely important to integrate added content into the overarching story, so I also hope that they do so for Deadfire if they go the parallel expansion route. 

 

That being said, I'd still hope for an expansion taking place after the events of the main game, possibly as an epilogue of sorts. Whatever plans they may or may not have for Pillars 3, Pillars 2 plus any expansions should probably mark the end of the Watcher's story; I'm not keen to see any further soul-draining shenanigans to justify the Watcher's involvement in the stories for any other games down the line.

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The thing that makes the White March feel weird from a narrative standpoint is how far away it is. Investigating a Leaden Key lead makes sense after Never Far From the Queen, but it a lot further away that the other leads given. Mechanically it only takes one day to get there, but the way it's talked about it game suggests it's further away that that.

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The thing that makes the White March feel weird from a narrative standpoint is how far away it is. Investigating a Leaden Key lead makes sense after Never Far From the Queen, but it a lot further away that the other leads given. Mechanically it only takes one day to get there, but the way it's talked about it game suggests it's further away that that.

 

One glimpse on the Eastern Reach map says it all.


It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air...

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Honestly, the whole thing about the White March being a Leaden Key lead is fairly weakly done to my mind. It felt tacked on after the content was written in order to give the player a reason to go, but it didn't feel well integrated to the main story. Luckily the White March itself is great so I can forgive this.

 

I'd definitely prefer a sequential expansion in Deadfire though.

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The main lead is just an excuse to go explore White March. Other than that the expansion has great locations, dungeons, quests and of course main plot. Sometimes you need to not give a dime about why you're in a place, in a video game, and just enjoy the adventure.

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The main lead is just an excuse to go explore White March. Other than that the expansion has great locations, dungeons, quests and of course main plot. Sometimes you need to not give a dime about why you're in a place, in a video game, and just enjoy the adventure.

No one says that WM shouldn't exist because it has continuity issues:-). Discussing how it could be better implimented doesn't decrease its current value.

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Sometimes you need to not give a dime about why you're in a place, in a video game, and just enjoy the adventure.

 

Oh I totally agree. I never even considered the problem of Baldur's Gate 2's motivation until I read about it online years after finishing the game several times. I simply accepted that I was expected to want to rescue Imoen/unlock my powers and rolled with it. I also thoroughly enjoyed the White March despite the feeling that the Leaden Key hook was pretty weak.

 

That said, the writers should endeavour to make such hooks as strong as they can. This isn't meant as a criticism of the writers for the White March, I thought it was full of excellently written content, I'm just saying that if it were possible to tie the expansion content in better that would be good.

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Sometimes you need to not give a dime about why you're in a place, in a video game, and just enjoy the adventure.

 

Oh I totally agree. I never even considered the problem of Baldur's Gate 2's motivation until I read about it online years after finishing the game several times. I simply accepted that I was expected to want to rescue Imoen/unlock my powers and rolled with it. I also thoroughly enjoyed the White March despite the feeling that the Leaden Key hook was pretty weak.

 

That said, the writers should endeavour to make such hooks as strong as they can. This isn't meant as a criticism of the writers for the White March, I thought it was full of excellently written content, I'm just saying that if it were possible to tie the expansion content in better that would be good.

 

BG2 used to be my holy grail of gaming for many years but I happily admit I completely forgot Imoen existed on my first playthrough. The side content was just soo good:-).

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BG2 used to be my holy grail of gaming for many years but I happily admit I completely forgot Imoen existed on my first playthrough. The side content was just soo good:-).

 

It's still mine. Much as I love Pillars, and Divinity: Original Sin, nothing has surpassed BG2 for me. What did it for you? Because I want to play it!

Edited by PrimeHydra

Ask a fish head

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Guest Blutwurstritter

I especially disliked the way the dlc's were released. Did anyone actually play the White March 1 when it was released without the second part ? This made absolutely no sense to me. For a sequential expansion i could live with it since you can't screw the balance by following the main story while your waiting for the second part but in the case of the white march it made no sense.  

When i play an expansion or dlc i want to enjoy it like it was supposed to be by design but that includes for the White March restarting the game and redoing a large amount of the content i already know. A sequential expansion allows me to play only the new content without repetitions. I hope they take this route if they add story dlc's,  unless they find a way to include it without screwing balance. 

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BG2 used to be my holy grail of gaming for many years but I happily admit I completely forgot Imoen existed on my first playthrough. The side content was just soo good:-).

 

 

It's still mine. Much as I love Pillars, and Divinity: Original Sin, nothing has surpassed BG2 for me. What did it for you? Because I want to play it!

Witcher3 is my new BG2. Quite different in style, but to me it shares many important similarities - limited role playing in favour of tight story and characters, huge world which just keeps on giving, insanely ambitious project that somehow succeeded. It gave me the sense of wonder and discovery I haven't felt in years. I am a witcher fan both books, and previous games so I might be bias. I also played through it only once - we will see if it will survive multiple playthoughs (limited gameplay options might make replaying it boring)

 

Though more importantly, my taste has changed. While I still adore lengthy RPG and anything Infinity-Engine-like will get my attention, I do prefer shorter and more focused games these days. Looking forward to anything done by Klei or Supergiant. I do need to go back to BG one of these days. Didn't play it for years.

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n/m

Edited by rjshae

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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I especially disliked the way the dlc's were released. Did anyone actually play the White March 1 when it was released without the second part ?

*raises hand*

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Me, too. Multiple times.

 

I also like it very much that the expansions are exactly that: expansions of the main game, not a sequel. It gives you more items and abilities and talents which you can use in the whole big game and not only in short sequels. I would be really sad if Obsidian changed their approach to expansions.

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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Me, too. Multiple times.

 

I also like it very much that the expansions are exactly that: expansions of the main game, not a sequel. It gives you more items and abilities and talents which you can use in the whole big game and not only in short sequels. I would be really sad if Obsidian changed their approach to expansions.

 

Now, that is a good point indeed.

 

Although, do those make the game (after the expansion is played) easier since the balancing was done before the expansion? Unless, of course, there is scaling (yuck!). ☺

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Nescire autem quid ante quam natus sis acciderit, id est semper esse puerum. Quid enim est aetas hominis, nisi ea memoria rerum veterum kum superiorum aetate contexitur? Marcus Tillius Cicero

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I played them after both were out. And after some time too. The latter because of financial problems. But I wouldn't have played part 1 alone anyway. Sounded pointless to me.

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Me, too. Multiple times.

I also like it very much that the expansions are exactly that: expansions of the main game, not a sequel. It gives you more items and abilities and talents which you can use in the whole big game and not only in short sequels. I would be really sad if Obsidian changed their approach to expansions.

 

 

Now, that is a good point indeed.

 

Although, do those make the game (after the expansion is played) easier since the balancing was done before the expansion? Unless, of course, there is scaling (yuck!). ☺

Yes, they do wreck the late game if you won't apply content scaling. That's the unfortunate trade off.


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Late game difficulty was laughable even in the original game without expansions. That has nothing to do with the WM I and II. Of course Thaos is even more laughable at lvl 16 than he is at lvl 12 - but if you scale up it's nearly the same level of lol.

 

There are enough encounters in WM I and II that are very difficult even without scaling. But most "trashmob" fights are still supereasy compared to the beginning of the game where most fights are kind of tough (PotD).

 

All in all there's not enough (or barely enough) XP in the early game and way too much in the mid game - you will hit lvl 12 (or 14 or 16) very early as a completionist.

 

But all in all: yes, it's difficult to rebalance the main game if you slide some expansions in. But I think it's doable. The replay value is so much better if you expand the main game instead of adding a rather short sequel. I like to to builds, so it's obvious why I like the current approach better.

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Guest Blutwurstritter

Late game difficulty was laughable even in the original game without expansions. That has nothing to do with the WM I and II. Of course Thaos is even more laughable at lvl 16 than he is at lvl 12 - but if you scale up it's nearly the same level of lol.

 

There are enough encounters in WM I and II that are very difficult even without scaling. But most "trashmob" fights are still supereasy compared to the beginning of the game where most fights are kind of tough (PotD).

 

All in all there's not enough (or barely enough) XP in the early game and way too much in the mid game - you will hit lvl 12 (or 14 or 16) very early as a completionist.

 

But all in all: yes, it's difficult to rebalance the main game if you slide some expansions in. But I think it's doable. The replay value is so much better if you expand the main game instead of adding a rather short sequel. I like to to builds, so it's obvious why I like the current approach better.

 

I guess it depends what your preference is. I finished PoE 3 times before the White March was released and my desire to replay it was satisfied. The additional story content was mostly disconnected from the rest of the game and could have been put after the main story line. This would have resolved most of the problems regarding balance and would have made it accessible to everyone who finished the game once at leisure.

The added replay value is not bound to the "position" of the DLC in the game but to the content. Usually new talents and abilities or classes also get added to the main game even in the case of a sequential DLC so the replay value  increases likewise. I would say that  this is rather a matter of added content in general. It does not depend on the moment when the quests take place in the game. It is obvious that a short DLC adds less replay value compared to an extensive expansion but a sequential DLC can be substantial while an in between DLC can be short. 

The White March DLC did not fit well into the game in my opinion and was rather out of place, although the content itself was good. 

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Personally, I'd back an additionnal FIG Side-Campaign for Deadfire,

 

if the Stretch Goals are only based on adding levels to a New Mega-Dungeon like the previous game lol.

fifteen Levels are not enough, I want MOAR ! 

Edited by DexGames
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There won't be any mega-dungeon like caed nua in Deadfire.

 

That's specificaly why I said what I've said, because I want one in Deadfire.  :yes:

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I thought that you thought we were getting another one, you just wanted it to be even longer.

 

I did really like the mega dungeon. I never found it too long because you could always come back to it, and the short cuts really helped. I just liked the idea that it was this really vast and deep place. Kind of reminded me of Diablo 1. Like having Diablo within Pillars.

 

I'm sort of expecting we get an equal amount of content spread out over some sort of island hope treasure find.

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I thought that you thought we were getting another one, you just wanted it to be even longer.

 

I did really like the mega dungeon. I never found it too long because you could always come back to it, and the short cuts really helped. I just liked the idea that it was this really vast and deep place. Kind of reminded me of Diablo 1. Like having Diablo within Pillars.

 

I'm sort of expecting we get an equal amount of content spread out over some sort of island hope treasure find.

Isn't Fulvano's voyage the new Endless Paths?

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