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Better soulbound weapons for pillars 2?


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I found the soulbound weapons very underwhelming in pillars 1 and I personally think the devs where a out of touch with the players expectations in delivering unique weapons:

 

Unlaboured blade: was ok until the 3% nerf. Absolutely no point in going through the painful level up process with it after the nerf especially so late in the game. 0/10

 

Abydons hammer: finally a taste of raw power. Great spin off of Thor's hammer . 8/10

 

Nightshroud: the 10% proc on hit or crit rarely went off. Even if the proc did go enemies still got a save that could negate it. Immunity to blind hardly ever needed. 3/10

 

Stormcaller : good early to mid game then the relentless storm proc usefulness dies off after that. Pity only ranger can make good use out of it, 6/10

 

Steadfast: this sword is another huge let down for so late in the game. Sunlance proc for paladin at 15% is best ability. Fear/ terrify immunity not all that helpful. Another underwhelming late game weapon. 4/10

 

The redeemer: best soulbound by far. Makes any combat vs vessels trivial. Perhaps to powerful a weapon. 9/10

 

Grey sleeper: ok mid game weapon. 15% chance paralyse or twin stones. 5/10

 

Twin sting: ok but there are alot off late game war bows that provide far better options. 4/10

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I do not agree with your assement. Neither on the specific weapons (to which I will come shortly) nor that the devs were "out of touch with the player expectations".

 

First of all:

 

There were player expectations towards Soulbound weapons? IIRC PoE was the first game to introduce those types of weapons? What kind of expectations do you talk about that the developers could have possibly been "out of touch with"? 

 

I think what you try to express is that the implemented soulbound weapons didn't do what you personally expected soulbound weapons to be. 

 

Reading a bit between the lines I think you want them to be the "endgame uber wepaons"? That was never the intent with those weapons, and THAT actually was communicated from the devs. They didnt want to make other endgame weapons obsolete; iirc that was one reason why you could not put a lash on them. 

 

The other thing which I found curious is that you appear to be complaining about the weapons falling short in the strength/power department, yet your ranking of the individual weapons seems to be very off for that? 

 

Abydons Hammer, while not bad, is not that strong really. His +4 might does sound impressive at first; but in reality its just a potential +2 to might for a character. (since stat boni arent stackable iirc. It might be that the weapon slot is treated differently, then I said nothing. But I think I am correct) And you lock that character into a slow twohander with a subpar passive benefit. (compared to estocs/ or a lash weapon)

 

Stormcaller on the other hand is broken good with bouncing shots and twin arrow. Its proccrate on a decently build hunter is INSANE. It stunlocks entire groups of enemies on its own. In fact THATS the one weapon of the bunch which is WAY to strong. Nvm that it also does split physical/elemental damage. Which is inherently good since the heavier armors tend to be weak to its elemental damage type. 

 

 

Overall I can't help but feel that you complain about failed expectations; those expectations weren't warranted in the first place and on top of it you don't really understand the underlying system to really make a claim about the developer "being out of touch". 

 

However it can be argued that Obsidian didnt communicate very clearly

1. about their goals before implementing the Soulbound weapons

2. weapon progression/entchanting system

3. underlying mechanics of combats

 

All of these got acknowledged btw by at least Josh and talked about in greater detail. You can check for JSawyer on twitter and on tumblr as well as the FIG campaign about these things. The campaign videos, especially the streams cover that material quite well.

Edited by Saori
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You are not correct. Abydons hammer might +4 stacks over and above everything I don't no where you got that from. It also comes with a per encounter long duration area of effect stun that happens to be the most powerful ability BY FAR of any weapon (apart from redeemer and vessels)

 

The main concerns I have with soulbounds:

 

-'the 10% proc rate on hit/ crit is to low

- the proc can be resisted with a save

- you have to level up some of these weapons nearly right at the end of the game. The unlaboured blade for example is not worth it.

- by the time you take into consideration that they only proc on hits/ crits and not grazes and that the proc can be resisted with a save the actual effective PROC rate is something like 4-5%. That's means the weapons proc about 1 in every 20 times you attack with them.

 

Barbarians and rangers can make better use of them but everyone else doesn't have much need for them.

Edited by firkraag888
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All in all, I was rather happy with the soulbound items and used quite a few of them. A wizard using Gyrd Háewanes Sténes on clustered enemies? Domination town. I agree that the unlocking process was a bit of a chore in some cases, but I find the way they patched it satisfactory.

 

And I straight up loved the unlabored blade.

"It seems increasingly likely that it is some kind of apology in a dead language" was a laugh-out-loud highpoint for me.

 

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For me it was hard to judge when to say goodbye to a soulbound weapon. There were so many fiddly little modifiers that make it difficult to judge their true value. In the end I just shrugged and kept using them.

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I was a big fan of them to be honest. Stormcaller, Gyrd and Nightshroud were my faves. Nightshroud looked cool as hell, especially when paired with Ravenwing on my Redheaded Mohawked Dwarf wearing Muncara Arret or whatever it's callled. Gyrd was awesome on Mages and Stormcaller was the end all battle winner.... probably overpowered.

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I basically do agree with firkraag888.

 

One exception is Stormcaller. I think it's one of the best bows in the game because it has the -6 shock DR reduction on hit which is really good, it works with Heart of the Storm (weapon damage as well as the Returning Storm proc) AND it has two damage types. But the weapon is not OP. If you look at pure dps then Persistence might even be better, but many people don't know how powerful (and weird) wounding is. For CC Sabra Marie would be better. But still Stormcaller is one of the best overall, also because the shock DR reduction is very helpful for team members.

 

The Gyrd scepter is quite nice, too. Enormous acc bonus which is great for the everyday implement user, raw lash and domination are pretty nice features.

 

What I like about soulbounds is that they have an universal weapon focus.

 

What I dislike is that you can't give them a lash and also no durgan steel. That's the main reason they generally fall behind in the late game if their enchantments are not really awesome.

 

The "problem" with all spell chances (x% spell proc on of all hits & crits), spell striking (100% spell proc on crit) and overbearing and stunning (100% prone/stun process on crit) is that those are really powerful with all the abilities that help to generate several weapon hits or crits with one attack, namely Carnage, Heart of Fury, Torment's Reach, Blast, Twinned Arrows, Driving Flight. With those it's rel. easy to proc all the time while single target specialists like rogue or fighter are not able to do this.

The nerf of the Unlabored Blade was only done because barbs and monks would proc Firebug all the time. But now the weapon is useless for single target damage dealers.

 

There's one approach that doesn't have this problem and that's proc on kill (forgot the proper Name for that). But this was implemented in a way that it's too weak: 25% of all kills is bad. 100% like Inspiring Triumph would be appropriate.

 

Stat bonuses from weapons and shields always stack with everything by the way. Also most enchantments of weapons stack, for example herald (+5 to all defenses aura), wounding and so on. Exceptions are disorienting (-5 to defense on hit) and interfering (-5 to acc on hit) because it was too powerful to let them remain stackable. I partly blame one of my threads that showed the game breaking features of disorienting for that nerf. I reduced the defenses of whole mob crowds to below zero with a barb and made screenshots... :(

Edited by Boeroer
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Looking at the wiki(haven't played WM yet), very few seem to go past superb(or whatever the 3rd quality tier is) and along with the general lack of lashes and no durgan steel option they do seem to take a hit compared to say Legendary Bittercut with a corrosive lash and durgan steel. So I'd say some improvement is needed, as well as maybe allowing certain enchantments to be made, but maybe in an even more limited form than "ordinary" magic weapons. There's also the issue of multiclassing and class specific soulbound weapons, particularly if one was to take two classes for one, like a Cipher/Ranger using Stormcaller.

 

In any case it needs to be refined but the concept is really cool. And there should be a soulbound katana used to defeat a shapeshifitng master of darkness, preferably with a quest that involves getting thrown into a portal in time.

Edited by KaineParker

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I'd be interested in seeing more weapons that don't just gradually unlock upgrades. The Unlabored Blade's slow decline before becoming great is a bit of a gimmick that doesn't really need to be done again, but maybe one goes through three entirely different forms before reaching a fourth version that combines all three. Or maybe one just infinitely cycles between versions.

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Take Nghtshroud for example.

 

The Lead up to it is awesome; Start of white march expansion; forgotten dwarven fortress; lost treasury discovered; absolutely beautiful weapon discovered in exciting cirmumstances:)

 

and then it just goes down hill from there:

 

- spell chance of blind which is its major feature but only goes off roughly 1 in every 20 times you attack with it

-restricted only to rogue and priest

- you have to level it up

 

Seriously WTF!!!

 

If I was living in stalwart village and there was a door In my house that kept blowing shut in the wind I would now have the perfect door stop for it. 

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"you have to level it up"

 

That's not a bug. That's a feature. That's *the* major feature of soulbound weapons--gradually unlocking new abilities.

 

At least it's not exclusively one type of creature you have to damage anymore...

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Yeah, the "levelling up" mechanic is a cool feature, not at all a detraction in my book, but on the other hand I do hope they play a little more with the soulbound weapon goals in Deadfire and not leave it at "deal this much damage to this type of enemy/proc this effect these many times".

Edited by algroth
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I'm gonna be honest, I have very mixed feelings towards Soulbound weapons. Sure its really cool to find a Sword in a Stone and all that, but its kinda annoying having to use an underpowered weapon until you can fulfil some obscure requirement. And after you have them, all the other gear somehow feels worthless.

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"you have to level it up"

 

That's not a bug. That's a feature. That's *the* major feature of soulbound weapons--gradually unlocking new abilities.

 

At least it's not exclusively one type of creature you have to damage anymore...

Im pissed off you have to level it up and at the end it was underwhelming and not really needed

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I like the levelling feature of soulbound items, particularly the way the lore is slowly uncovered whilst doing so. It would be nice if, in Deadfire, we get some soulbound items early in the game, and they level along with our characters e.g. when you first find the item it's Fine, then around the same time you start getting Exceptional items it can be levelled to its next tier making it Exceptional etc.

 

More generally, I agree with much of what firkraag888 says about the performance of the various soulbound weapons. In particular, the nerf on the proc rate of the Unlabored Blade really wasn't necessary. I disagree with his opinion of Stormcaller however, at least when it's used by a Ranger. With Driving Flight and Twinned Arrows it procs Returning Storm a lot, it has dual damage types and benefits from Heart of the Storm for all its damage, and its Shock DR reduction debuff is excellent.

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I would like to see soulbound item groups. Gathering a combo of items would make them all better. A belt, Weapon and shield combo for example.

 

 

Ive always liked set bonuses and how they get progressively more powerful as you acquire more pieces to the set.

Even the unlaboured blade? Bigtime Level up BS for a 3% firebug pro?

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Anyone else wonder if Twin Sting was possibly Obsidian testing how something like dual wielding pistols (two shots before reload) would work?

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Even the unlaboured blade? Bigtime Level up BS for a 3% firebug pro?

Honestly, Ive never played PoE so maybe I was confused. Are there already set bonuses in the game?

 

I was referring to a "set bonus" where the whole is more than the sum of the parts. For example (copied from mmo champion):

 

Mage (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)

Item - Mage T19 Arcane 2P Bonus - Your spells have an additional 5% chance to activate Arcane Missiles.

Item - Mage T19 Arcane 4P Bonus - Casting Arcane Missiles reduces the remaining cooldown on Evocation by 2.0 sec.

Item - Mage T19 Fire 2P Bonus - Enhanced Pyrotechnics provides an additional 20% critical strike chance from each application.

Item - Mage T19 Fire 4P Bonus - Hot Streak has a 10% chance to also grant you 20% haste for 10 sec.

Item - Mage T19 Frost 4P Bonus - Frozen Orb has an additional 5% chance to trigger Fingers of Frost when it deals damage.

Item - Mage T19 Frost 2P Bonus - Frost Bolt has a 10% increased chance to trigger Brain Freeze.

As you will see, when acquiring 2 pieces and 4 pieces of a set, you get new bonuses.

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