A Reqeust for a walk toggle this Time

[Guest 4ward]

 

the player sneaks through a dungeon filled with traps, he walks through an unexplored outside area

[Osvir]

the player sneaks through a dungeon filled with traps, he walks through an unexplored outside area

 

Or in a city market looking at various goods.

[Joral]

 

the player sneaks through a dungeon filled with traps, he walks through an unexplored outside area

 

Or in a city market looking at various goods.

 

 

It definitely adds to the game far more than it takes away. . Sorry it took me a while to respond been playing TToN (Probably like most of you), Sadly having to stop playing until they patch.

[Abel]

Did not read everything, don't know if the matter about the toggle is settled yet or not. But i must say "i agree". Running everywhere is silly. Being able to walk at times is a key component of roleplay to me.

 

-Hey, have a beer? Want a beer! *running everywhere in the tavern*

-Not a Red Bull? *squinting*

-Hu? Why Red Bull? *Doing push ups and running*

-Yaaah.... Nothing....

 

So i want the toggle allowing to walk too (cyan circles would be great too actually ).

[Joral]

Did not read everything, don't know if the matter about the toggle is settled yet or not. But i must say "i agree". Running everywhere is silly. Being able to walk at times is a key component of roleplay to me.

 

-Hey, have a beer? Want a beer! *running everywhere in the tavern*

-Not a Red Bull? *squinting*

-Hu? Why Red Bull? *Doing push ups and running*

-Yaaah.... Nothing....

 

So i want the toggle allowing to walk too (cyan circles would be great too actually ).

 

I am hoping that the matter is still being considered. These are features that, even if not the whole community atleast a large portion would like to see this feature in the game, even if they never use it. I am still hoping that we can convince them to add the feature in.

[Sensuki]

Interesting side note, the "move at full speed while in stealth" was added by Bester and Sensuki because they wanted to move faster in stealth.  No one ever had to "ask" for it.  They also added the "enhanced" increased game speed because they wanted to move across maps even faster than you could with the built in increased speed.

 

I can't remember where the faster movement stuff came from, but it definitely wasn't me. I even tried to slow down movement speed before I enlisted Bester's aid.

[Joral]

 

Interesting side note, the "move at full speed while in stealth" was added by Bester and Sensuki because they wanted to move faster in stealth.  No one ever had to "ask" for it.  They also added the "enhanced" increased game speed because they wanted to move across maps even faster than you could with the built in increased speed.

 

I can't remember where the faster movement stuff came from, but it definitely wasn't me. I even tried to slow down movement speed before I enlisted Bester's aid.

 

 

Thank you for the post. I was starting to wonder if Karkarov was correct and that the walk toggle was just an accident. I am glad it was not. What are your views on having a walk toggle in the game before modding ?

[oddrheia]

Hi guys! Is there  anything new on the subject? I've not been keeping up with the Deadfire news...  Have there been any mentions of it at all past few months?

[MortyTheGobbo]

It never ceases to amaze me just how fragile some people's immersion is.

[injurai]

A good walk animation is good for animation blending. But I certainly don't think I'd use it that much. I'd rather just use the slow mechanic, and typically I want to be moving faster not slower when I'm just moving about.

[DexGames]

I re-watched the Campaign Ending Party a couple of days ago.

At that time they said it would be a 6 Million Stretch Goal 

 

Basicaly said, we won't get a toggle button for walking anytime soon. Whiule it is good for RP purposes, I'm not bothered for not having it.

They said many times that it's an unpopular feature, and would only happen if the ENTIRE Community claims it, so...

[Varana]

Hmm. Where exactly did they say that many times? ;D

[smjjames]

It never ceases to amaze me just how fragile some people's immersion is.

 

I don't see it as a problem with immersion, more of a QoL kind of thing because maybe sometimes you don't want to move quickly.

[DexGames]

Hmm. Where exactly did they say that many times? ;D

 

Josh's Twitter & QA Twitch Sessions, can't tell you which one tho

[Cerebro83]

Would love a Walk Toggle, too, although I don't have my hopes up on the matter. Hopefully it gets modded in like in Pillars 1. Still use IE Mod almost exclusively for this tiny feature.

[anameforobsidian]

I would never use the feature because I like careening around the city at full tilt, but it's probably not that much work to put in given that the animations are already in.  Count me on team walk.

[RedKnight]

Ok, I just came to add my own voice on this topic. So far I have bought pretty much every game with BG/Fallout/PST/Arcanum design values, which I guess makes me a longtime Obsidian fan and which is important to remember for my final statement. Anyway, I will try to take a bit different approach from what was already said here before, so please bare with me.

 

I am very disturbed with the current trend in Obsidian and certain InXile games (*cough* Numenera *cough*) where the general design consensus among the developers seems to be how the walk option is something that is not needed, because "only a few people demand it". Here are few things to consider in regards to that:

 

1. Most people today belong to what I like to call the ADHD generation and I thought the whole point of this RPG renaissance was to revive the genre not just for us old geezers, but for the newer generation who don't know any better. This coincidently also means introducing them to concepts that they rarely see in modern games. I mean, if what people demand is the reason why you make these games, then why not make your character lightning fast? Or better yet, why not remove any running between locations and just introduce teleporting between points of interest?... Hopefuly, you wont take these sarcastic remarks seriously, but the point I am trying to make is that not everything should be looked through the lense of convenience and addition to gameplay. Imerssion is a standard part of roleplaying and it should not be lost just because people don't demand it? Surely, you see the benefits of having an OPTION to actually roleplay in a game that wants to revive the concept of a true roleplaying game!

 

2. Has it crossed Josh Sawyer's mind that perhaps people weren't demanding it, because they just assumed it will be a part of the game? I mean, even Call of Duty has a walk option, so surely the company with such an amazing RPG pedigree will not forget to add this into their games! Surely!!
 

3. Just because people are not complaining, doesn't mean that something doesn't need fixing! Think about presentation of your game in terms of how your engine works. Everytime you start a dialogue, the game pauses. If the dialogue starts while you are sprinting somewhere (given that sprinting everywhere is the only option currently), how do you think this looks to a potential reviewer who may or may not care about immersion? You can't tell me it doesn't look absolutely retarded, even if you don't give a **** about imerssion! And considering how much time you spend in dialogues, this means you will be seeing your character immitating Usain bolt while being paused in mid dialogue quite often. Now yes, a reviewer might brush this off as "not a big issue", but how can you be sure that this won't affect his review in at least 1% or 2%? And if a reviewer cares anything about imerssion and is like me, the fact that I am forced to sprint even in taverns and libriaries will probably cost you even more! Which brings me to point 3.

 

4. It was stated many times before that this is a minor issue that most people will just ignore, even if it bothers them. Hell, I bought both PoE and Tyranny, despite having a HUGE issue with the lack of this particular feature. However, if your general attitude as a game developer is "well, it's good enough", might I suggest that sooner or later this mentality will backfire at least in regards to some people, and when your audiance is already "niche" - you should be fighting for every potential customer! Now, if Josh doesn't care about reviews and thinks it doesn't matter if a game gets an 8 or 7.5, great! Good for him, but I sincerly hope other people in the dev team have more common sense than that, especially since creating a walk option really is no task at all!

 

5. We all assume the game will be great and that it will receive universal praise, but look at what happened to Torment: Tides of Numenera. The reviews are very mixed, especially from the user side and many people have opted for not buying the game because of the mixed reviews. As I mentioned before, I am a HUGE fan of these types of games, but I too have opted not to buy the game, simply because the reviews are very mixed. However, important part to know here is that the straw that broke the camel's back was in fact the lack of walking mechanic! Please note how I am not saying that I didn't support it just because of lack of 1 feature. The biggest part for my reservation for Numenera comes from mixed reviews. If the reviews from the user base were great, I would probably pick it up regardless of the walk option. So while the mixed reviews made me think about it, the lack of walking mechanics drove me over the line to be persuaded not to support the game for now.

 

6. When I couldnt walk in PoE1 I was not happy about it, but hey... you can't always get what you want. When it happened in Tyranny, I was annoyed, but whatever. When it happened in Numenera, it was established as a trend and it started to annoy me very very much. Now, I see that PoE2 follows the same path and to be quite honest, it is infuriating. I mean, the big heads is a feature, but imerssion is just off the scope for Obsidian! Seriously?!?! At this point, this is becoming such an established trend that I have to draw the line somewhere and am willing to fight tooth and nail for it. I am not saying I will not support PoE2, but I certainly am considering all options, and I know I am not the only one. I have 3 friends who have already said they won't be buying the game just out of protest, and there was at least one post here that said pretty much the same.

 

The bottom line is this. If a longtime fan of these types of games is considering all options and has in fact already opted out from buying Numenera, what do you think a less devoted person will do if imerssion is of ANY importance to them? You said it's easy to implement - in fact, I know it is easy to implement since I know a few things about game design - being a Morrowind modder and amateur game designer myself. Hell, I could probably learn to mod it myself, but it disturbs me greatly that we even have to have this discussion. This should be a part of every RPG by default. Just make it happen, or at the very least give us a console command so that we can activate it through cheats or somethning.

 

Best regards!

[Wormerine]

Oh, because T:ToN would so much less clunky if you had an option to make your characters walk slower.

 

Not that I am against the feature if it is simple to implement. I see no use for it. Otherwise I imagine it is a not very popular thing. Shooters benefit from having walking options. RTS, top down RPGs? Not so much. But seriously. Just replayed fallout recently. Walking is annoying. Had to turn on auto run. Walking/running has no benefit beyond wasting your time.

[RedKnight]

Oh, because T:ToN would so much less clunky if you had an option to make your characters walk slower.

 

Not that I am against the feature if it is simple to implement. I see no use for it. Otherwise I imagine it is a not very popular thing. Shooters benefit from having walking options. RTS, top down RPGs? Not so much. But seriously. Just replayed fallout recently. Walking is annoying. Had to turn on auto run. Walking/running has no benefit beyond wasting your time.

No, Numenera wouldn't be any less clunky if you added an option to walk, but it would make it more imerssive for people who think that sprinting in libriaries and taverns looks retarded. When you already have a clunky game with mixed reviews, you would think that you don't need to add imerssion to the pile of problems on top of everything else - especially considering how simple it is to introduce this tiny option, but unfortunately some people just don't seem to get it.

 

As for you personally not using it, nor seeing any benefit from it, well... there are multiple threads on this topic full of people who would use it and see a great benefit from it. Besides, it is an option, so nobody is forcing you to use it.

 

Look, I am glad that you are not against the feature, but quite frankly I am baffled by people who come to comment only to say how they personally think something is useless or a waste of time. I mean, you say that shooters benefit from walking option. Well, people are different and I personally never use walking in shooters, because it just makes me a slow-moving target, but if something is an option... I would never feel the need to come and comment how I dont use it. That is because, obviously if people ask for something, it is important to THEM. I mean, imagine if the devs removed something that you personally use quite a lot, the devs are willing to put it in if people show interest and then a bunch of people come and start commenting how it is a useless, annoying, waste of time feature just because they personally don't use it. Wouldn't you find that at least a bit annoying?

 

All we ask for is an option to turn the walking on - if walking is useless to you, don't turn it on but please dont ruin the fun for the rest of us. This is not about gameplay mechanics, it is an imerssion completely optional feature that is very important to people who care about imerssion.

Edited August 12, 2017 by RedKnight

[Karkarov]

Okay I sort of played nice / made jokes in this thread before, since it has been revived and isn't dying a natural death I am going to be more clear now.

Walk Toggle is a waste of dev time, and money.

1: Less than 10% of players will actually use it.  Consider the evidence that one of the most popular features of Eternity's POE Mod, made by and for the old school hardcore PC RPG fans, was that it made your sneaking movement speed dramatically faster.

 

2: If you want to move slower you can already sneak, and that gives gameplay benefits, not just "immersion".

 

3: This is a top down RPG that has no mechanical benefit to walking versus normal movement speed, so there is no gameplay reason to include it.

 

4: It would require the development of multiple sets of new animations, which are time consuming, and very expensive.

 

5: The only benefit is "immersion enhancement" to a minority of players, while the vast majority of players have already said it will not enhance their immersion and they will not use it.

 

6: As developers I bet Obsidian has done studies about what people liked, and did not like, in all their old rose tinted glass viewed games.  The fact that they are willing to drop walk toggle says volumes about what that data gave them.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Karkarov

[Wormerine]

haha, well the side effect of posting a suggestion/request on a public forum is that you might get a positive/negative feedback from other users. Your previous post sounded like walking feature would improve the game a lot. I don't believe it would, not for a majority of players. You posted your opinion, I did mine. Obsidian will do what they feel is right either way.

 

 

 

Well, people are different and I personally never use walking in shooters, because it just makes me a slow-moving target, but if something is an option... I would never feel the need to come and comment how I dont use it. That is because, obviously if people ask for something, it is important to THEM. I mean, imagine if the devs removed something that you personally use quite a lot, the devs are willing to put it in if people show interest and then a bunch of people come and start commenting how it is a useless, annoying, waste of time feature just because they personally don't use it. Wouldn't you find that at least a bit annoying?

 

That is exactly the point. IF people show interest in it Obsidian might put it in. Because it would make it worth investment and cluttering UI with. People come and say "nah, we don't care" not with an intention of ruining your fun. I did it with an intention to let you know that I don't believe that the feature is worth implimenting. This is not a petition, this is a place for a discusion.

 

Still, good luck with "toggle walking" crusade:-)
 

[RedKnight]

Okay I sort of played nice / made jokes in this thread before, since it has been revived and isn't dying a natural death I am going to be more clear now.

 

Walk Toggle is a waste of dev time, and money.

 

1: Less than 10% of players will actually use it.  Consider the evidence that one of the most popular features of Eternity's POE Mod, made by and for the old school hardcore PC RPG fans, was that it made your sneaking movement speed dramatically faster.

 

2: If you want to move slower you can already sneak, and that gives gameplay benefits, not just "immersion".

 

3: This is a top down RPG that has no mechanical benefit to walking versus normal movement speed, so there is no gameplay reason to include it.

 

4: It would require the development of multiple sets of new animations, which are time consuming, and very expensive.

 

5: The only benefit is "immersion enhancement" to a minority of players, while the vast majority of players have already said it will not enhance their immersion and they will not use it.

 

6: As developers I bet Obsidian has done studies about what people liked, and did not like, in all their old rose tinted glass viewed games.  The fact that they are willing to drop walk toggle says volumes about what that data gave them.

 

1. 10% is still a considerable amount, so thanks for making my point, although I doubt that was your intention. I mean, let's say that around a million people buy the game, 10% is still over 100.000 people. 

 

2. Josh Sawyer said it would be no problem to implement it. Also, the walking animations already exist (we have seen them in the trailers). Also, the modders already did it in POE1 mod, so how much of a resource drain is it? So, no dude... you are just objectively wrong here.

 

3. This is not about wanting to move slower. This is about immersion! Sneaking in taverns or libraries with crouched animation is even less imerssive than running.

 

4. Dont bet on things you have no knowledge of. Doing a study on this would cost more money than actually implementing it. Take it from a guy that actually knows something about coding. LoL

 

5. Its an option, so what is it to you if they implement it or not?

Edited August 12, 2017 by Rosbjerg
No need to get personal

[RedKnight]

haha, well the side effect of posting a suggestion/request on a public forum is that you might get a positive/negative feedback from other users. Your previous post sounded like walking feature would improve the game a lot. I don't believe it would, not for a majority of players. You posted your opinion, I did mine. Obsidian will do what they feel is right either way.

 

 

 

Well, people are different and I personally never use walking in shooters, because it just makes me a slow-moving target, but if something is an option... I would never feel the need to come and comment how I dont use it. That is because, obviously if people ask for something, it is important to THEM. I mean, imagine if the devs removed something that you personally use quite a lot, the devs are willing to put it in if people show interest and then a bunch of people come and start commenting how it is a useless, annoying, waste of time feature just because they personally don't use it. Wouldn't you find that at least a bit annoying?

 

That is exactly the point. IF people show interest in it Obsidian might put it in. Because it would make it worth investment and cluttering UI with. People come and say "nah, we don't care" not with an intention of ruining your fun. I did it with an intention to let you know that I don't believe that the feature is worth implimenting. This is not a petition, this is a place for a discusion.

 

Still, good luck with "toggle walking" crusade:-)

 

Oh dont get me wrong. I wasn't talking about you. As far as you are concerned you already said you are not against it, so if you want to participate in a discussion by saying how you are not against it, but dont care for the feature either way, I am fine with that.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Rosbjerg
Again

[JerekKruger]

5. Its an option, so what is it to you if they implement it or not?

 

It takes time away from other development activity. It might not be much time but it isn't no time. As long as there are features that could be included that are more popular than a walk toggle, Obsidian should focus their attention on those.

 

Karkarov used the figure "less than 10%". He might correct me, but I imagine he was erring on the side of caution with that. I'd honestly be surprised if 1% of players would use a walk toggle throughout their playthroughs, with a slightly higher percentage starting out using it but giving up once they get frustrated at the slowness. Yes, it's an issue that generates discussion on this forum, but only a tiny fraction of people who backed Deadfire even post here and I don't think we're a representative sample.

 

Now if there were unlimited resources available I'd be all for including a walk toggle, even though I'd never use it; but since resources are limited I'd prefer that Obsidian use their time on any number of other things.

[RedKnight]

It doesn\t take away from other development. You are factually wrong.