Politics 2017 Part 3

[Wrath of Dagon]

Examples?

[Elerond]

Examples?

 

Northern Ireland is quite famous from having neighborhoods that aren't that police friendly.

 

Here in Finland we have our Romani neighbors and our motorcycle gangs don't like police that much, especially in mid 90s when they were in war with each other and were able to access weapons like M72 LAWs their neighborhoods weren't places were police went gladly.

 

EDIT: If we go little more back in Finland's history. In there was in 1800s group called Puukkojunkarit (knife-fighters) that terrorize big part of Western Finland.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Elerond

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

My argument is simple. Their approach is better. 

 

It is better for "us", whomever that may be, to be exporting our excess population - rather than being in a position to have to import others. 

 

If one cannot follow this very basic logic, then we have no grounds for discussion. Also a reminder - if this wasn't what Europeans were doing in the first place, there would be no America or Australia or any of the former colonial empires. Think of them what you may, but without the enormous wealth built up during that time you wouldn't be living nearly as good as you are today.

I guess it depends on how you define "better". If you cannot find reliable, long-term ways to relieve the strain on resources caused by the constant population increase, then it may be "better" from your "cultural supremacy" perspective, but it certainly is going to make everyone living in that culture miserable. Because life in Europe in the 17th century was on average awesome, right? China in the 60's?

 

I doubt you are arguing from a gene pool standpoint either, because that's the other perspective from which it would be "better". Sure, "European" genes wouldn't have been exported to the Americas and Asia without demographic pressure and displaced many "native" genes but again, this is just the stuff in your DNA and does nothing for, you know, the carriers themselves.

 

You have bought an ideological system where "**** people, go «culture»" is the mantra. You arbitrarily assign more value to a random set of customs than you do to the well-being of people, because reasons. But cultural values much like genes are subject to a sort of selection (the original memes). If they really are useful by themselves or by association with others, they will thrive. Otherwise they will be abandoned and relegated to history books if anything. The only intrinsic value they have is the degree to which they can replace others and become ubiquitous. This mechanism works whether you try to protect it or actively work against it.

 

Good luck selling your ideas to anyone with anything to lose. Which is kind of ironic, considering that the people most willing to take their essence to heart are those you want to keep out.

 

 

Just to be clear, I'm advocating healthy growth in place of demographic and cultural regression. There is a difference between healthy growth and unfettered growth. 

 

The cultural underpinnings of Europe aren't going "extinct" on their own, they're being deliberately undermined from the top down in an attempt to accommodate society to the needs of economic interests of the day.

 

As with the migrants. The message was the superficially agreeable "be humane", help out people in need. The reality was that it was decided at the top that the cheapest solution for private interests was to import a mass of  labor that's easy to pressure into doing whatever is necessary and at any price. Of course for them its the cheapest solution because the externalities will be borne by the taxpayer. All the asylums and welfare will be paid by someone else - they just get the net benefit to fuel their industry. Even if most of them are unemployable the overall costs can still be put on the shoulders of the taxpayer. 

 

As the youtuber I posted said: the only times the political elite sees the migrants they're importing is when they're making them a pizza in another neighborhood. They neither live in the ghetto nor do they care. The same applies to the economic elite.

 

To that end almost the entire political spectrum and mass media are mobilized to present a one sided story where the demographic problem is unsolvable, where the fate of these tragic refugees should be solved in wealthy Europe - and we get to do a good deed and fix our economy along the way. Both are patently false, neither is the deed "good" by any criteria (particularly for the domestic population of host countries) nor will this fix anything in the long run.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Drowsy Emperor

[Malcador]

 

The US has "no-go" zones, they are called the projects. They don't have anything to do with immigration or Islam, they have to do with economics.

 

 

Also I totally disagree about children being a sign of wealth. Most societies at seems to run in the opposite, the poor pump out children at an alarming rate while the wealthy tend to keep their families small.

Don't think they're exactly no-go, but they're hostile to the police, and have become a lot more hostile thanks to Obama's demagoguery and lies. Europe didn't have them though until mass migration. So the causes are different but the result is the same, ethnic-cultural enclaves hostile to the society at large.

How did Obama make them more hostile? I keep reading that as if cops and minorities were cool with each other before. High profile events and everything being recorded probably are more impactful.

[HoonDing]

"Yes, we put too many immigrants in the same neighbourhoods, that we do. Because people in the richer areas whinge to much about their houseprices dropping if there would be immigrants nearby. I **** you not."

 

Ironically even in Eastern Yurop the Chinese are coming in buying a lot of real estate and exorbitantly pushing prices up.

[Hurlshort]

Obama is clearly behind all racial tension in this country, just like Trump is behind all of our immigration problems.  

[Azdeus]

Examples?

 

"”Man riskerar att bli skjuten om man går dit, eller rånad, av kriminella element. Det är områden dit polisen knappt själva vågar gå och folk som är där är annorlunda.”"

"You risk getting shot if you go there, or robbed, by criminals. It's areas where the police themselves hardly dare venture, and people there are different."

What the middle and upper class said about some areas in Stockholm and Gothenburg in the 30's. Filled with "jews, gypsies, russians and such suspicious filth"

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

Examples?

 

Northern Ireland is quite famous from having neighborhoods that aren't that police friendly.

 

Here in Finland we have our Romani neighbors and our motorcycle gangs don't like police that much, especially in mid 90s when they were in war with each other and were able to access weapons like M72 LAWs their neighborhoods weren't places were police went gladly.

 

EDIT: If we go little more back in Finland's history. In there was in 1800s group called Puukkojunkarit (knife-fighters) that terrorize big part of Western Finland.

 

Not really equivalent, Northern Ireland obviously an insurgency problem, motorcycle gangs aren't a neighborhood, doubt romani are a whole neighborhood but again an example of an ethnic-cultural enclave, although a minor one.

 

How did Obama make them more hostile? I keep reading that as if cops and minorities were cool with each other before. High profile events and everything being recorded probably are more impactful.

By telling lies and exploiting such incidents as Zimmerman and Ferguson, and supporting BLM. I don't ever remember such anti-police riots here before (there were in the sixties, but that was a different situation).

 

 

 

Examples?

 

"”Man riskerar att bli skjuten om man går dit, eller rånad, av kriminella element. Det är områden dit polisen knappt själva vågar gå och folk som är där är annorlunda.”"

"You risk getting shot if you go there, or robbed, by criminals. It's areas where the police themselves hardly dare venture, and people there are different."

What the middle and upper class said about some areas in Stockholm and Gothenburg in the 30's. Filled with "jews, gypsies, russians and such suspicious filth"

 

I suppose if you go back far enough, again talking about an immigrant enclave. I don't know if they were factual, or motivated by racism.

[Hurlshort]

It amazes me how WoD sounds exactly like all the liberals freaking out about Trump whenever he talks about Obama. Is there any awareness of that? 

[Elerond]

 

Not really equivalent, Northern Ireland obviously an insurgency problem, motorcycle gangs aren't a neighborhood, doubt romani are a whole neighborhood but again an example of an ethnic-cultural enclave, although a minor one.

 

How did Obama make them more hostile? I keep reading that as if cops and minorities were cool with each other before. High profile events and everything being recorded probably are more impactful.

By telling lies and exploiting such incidents as Zimmerman and Ferguson, and supporting BLM. I don't ever remember such anti-police riots here before (there were in the sixties, but that was a different situation).

 

 

 

Examples?

 

"”Man riskerar att bli skjuten om man går dit, eller rånad, av kriminella element. Det är områden dit polisen knappt själva vågar gå och folk som är där är annorlunda.”"

"You risk getting shot if you go there, or robbed, by criminals. It's areas where the police themselves hardly dare venture, and people there are different."

What the middle and upper class said about some areas in Stockholm and Gothenburg in the 30's. Filled with "jews, gypsies, russians and such suspicious filth"

 

I suppose if you go back far enough, again talking about an immigrant enclave. I don't know if they were factual, or motivated by racism.

 

 

Romani families like to live in same neighborhoods and other Finns don't like live in same neighborhoods were there are Romani people, because we are nice like that. And situation is similar or even worse in other parts of Europe.

 

Actually said motorcycle gangs own whole neighborhoods, which is why it is difficult to get rid of them. And why they still exists, with their drug selling, extortion etc. business.

 

Those groups have their neighborhoods in much tighter control than any immigrant population that we have.

 

Also ethnic-cultural enclave what this had to do with that "Europe didn't have them (hostile neighborhoods towards police) though until mass migration". Also minor one, there are at least couple million Romani people in Europe. 

 

EDIT: I also wonder what you think is happening in immigrant heavy neighborhoods if you think that they are more scary place for police than neighborhoods where gangs fight with each other and with police using military grade weapons?

Edited February 18, 2017 by Elerond

[Malcador]

Obama is clearly behind all racial tension in this country, just like Trump is behind all of our immigration problems.

Heh, that does seem to be pretty much it. Cops as usual play no role in people distrusting them.

[Azdeus]

I suppose if you go back far enough, again talking about an immigrant enclave. I don't know if they were factual, or motivated by racism.

It wasn't an immigrant enclave, it was mostly poor Swedish people of the lower class living in poor neighbourhoods. Those areas they referred to are now some of the priciest neighbourhoods in Stockholm by the way.

 

Sorry for the Godwin here, but I found it interesting that Goebbels found "Gamla Stan" (Old Town litereally translated) to be a dangerous "no go zone" full of Jews and Poles and other scary people.

 

Edit; Godwin, not Darwin.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Azdeus

[aluminiumtrioxid]

*Godwin

[Wrath of Dagon]

It amazes me how WoD sounds exactly like all the liberals freaking out about Trump whenever he talks about Obama. Is there any awareness of that?

Trump has been in office for a month, Obama for 8 years. So we know exactly what Obama's policies have led to.

[Elerond]

 

It amazes me how WoD sounds exactly like all the liberals freaking out about Trump whenever he talks about Obama. Is there any awareness of that?

Trump has been in office for a month, Obama for 8 years. So we know exactly what Obama's policies have led to.

 

 

Yeah they lead to Trump taking office and I agree that is very bad. 

Edited February 18, 2017 by Elerond

[Meshugger]

 

I suppose if you go back far enough, again talking about an immigrant enclave. I don't know if they were factual, or motivated by racism.

It wasn't an immigrant enclave, it was mostly poor Swedish people of the lower class living in poor neighbourhoods. 

 

 

What are you talking about? There are no swedes.

[Pidesco]

 

The US has "no-go" zones, they are called the projects. They don't have anything to do with immigration or Islam, they have to do with economics. 

 

 

Also I totally disagree about children being a sign of wealth. Most societies at seems to run in the opposite, the poor pump out children at an alarming rate while the wealthy tend to keep their families small.

Don't think they're exactly no-go, but they're hostile to the police, and have become a lot more hostile thanks to Obama's demagoguery and lies. Europe didn't have them though until mass migration. So the causes are different but the result is the same, ethnic-cultural enclaves hostile to the society at large.

 

 

That is not true.

[HoonDing]

Trump ruined more in a month than Obama ruined in eight years.

[Zoraptor]

Examples?

 

East End of London hated Bobby Peel's original police force. Most of the negative names for the police in english originate from there.

[Gorgon]

Projects happen whenever the government is forced to build large amounts of affordable housing. To no one's surprise they wind up being full of poor people who rent instead of own, thus not caring much about their surroundings. Crime inevitably follows. No particular race or culture is required but it just so happens that the people at the bottom with fewer resources, options and struggling with discrimination and such are often immigrants.

 

 

They should just gift houses to people in need and don't put any of them in the same place. It will work out cheaper in the long run.  Or maybe tell them to hold down a job for 5 years and the house is yours ?. Reward merit that way. 

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

Examples?

 

East End of London hated Bobby Peel's original police force. Most of the negative names for the police in english originate from there.

 

Yes, I think there were some troubles with the Roman Empire too.

[Azdeus]

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/immigration-and-crime/

 

Speaking of immigrants and crime...

[Valsuelm]

Trump ruined more in a month than Obama ruined in eight years.

One commie's trash is a freedom lover's treasure?

 

If you love government or suckle upon the 'globalist' male bovine excrement canal as a hobby then yes, Trump is far more ruinous than Obama. Maybe.

 

Too much remains to be seen.

 

About the only thing I give Trump credit for at this point is killing TPP and calling the 'press' out a couple of times (it has truly been entertaining watching them freak out). Both very good things.

[Valsuelm]

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/immigration-and-crime/

 

Speaking of immigrants and crime...

 

Well, there's an article that flies in the face of one heck of a lot of human experience over the course of history, as well as other modern studies.

 

It's been my experience that those who make it a point to advertise themselves as representing logic, reason, 'common sense', science, skepticism, critical thinking, etc usually represent quite the opposite. Mr Novella is certainly no exception.

 

Also, 'Pew Research' is about as bad as it gets on the quality scale for research. If one considers truth and reality to be a standard of quality that is.

[Wrath of Dagon]

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/immigration-and-crime/

 

Speaking of immigrants and crime...

The part about illegal immigrants committing less crime is a lie. It's also interesting to note the left's hypocrisy here. They constantly claim illegal immigrants are honest and hard working. Yet they simultaneously claim under Trump's new policy to deport a broader range of criminals as many as 8 million of the supposedly 11 million illegals are eligible for deportation, which is a pretty huge percentage. So which is it then?