alternative facts

[HoonDing]

Best one though was Eisenhower's advisor, WWII hero William Blazkowicz.

[213374U]

Yeah. Dude had a big boner about the US being "the world's paramount power" and was a lead thinker in developing a strategy to maintain and expand that status through openly imperialist policies, centered especially on Central Asia (cf. The Grand Chessboard).

 

Seems to have made a 180 lately though, what with the Chinese and Russians not being especially receptive and the whole Middle East situation spinning out of control.

 

Still, the remark was about hubris.

[BruceVC]

Yeah. Dude had a big boner about the US being "the world's paramount power" and was a lead thinker in developing a strategy to maintain and expand that status through openly imperialist policies, centered especially on Central Asia (cf. The Grand Chessboard).

 

Seems to have made a 180 lately though, what with the Chinese and Russians not being especially receptive and the whole Middle East situation spinning out of control.

 

Still, the remark was about hubris.

2133 as much as I would love all the countries you mentioned to embrace the positive and transformative qualities of Western ideology you cannot force people to uplift themselves and have a better life....some governments just prefer running there countries in a benighted and intolerant way

 

Look at Iraq, they had the chance to chose peace and Democracy and they decided on sectarian violence  

[Guard Dog]

Her dad is Zbigniew Brezinski used to be an advisor to Carter I think.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski

 

Neat he founded the Trilateral Commission.

I didn't know that. Wild stuff.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

People watch MSNBC?

[Gromnir]

Trump wasn't talking about overall crime rates, he was talking about immigrant crime. And I can't see your stupid article any more because it's behind a paywall, but I seem to remember they made a ridiculous claim that only 1% of crime was due to immigrants, which is completely contradicted by charts in my link. Not to mention the article contradicts itself as I pointed out.

again you alter what trump said so it fits what you believe trump menat.  and even then, what trump meant were that he watched a fox new bit 'bout a documentary referencing swedish crime rates.  again, you cannot possibly explain away how asinine it is for a world leader to reference a fox news bit as a policy driver.  the President has potential access to more information than any of us can imagine, but instead of having the state department or intelligence look into the claims by the documentary guy, trump instead repeats as if such stuff is fact.

 

...

 

the fact you are even arguing this is mind boggling.  you are defending the President's use o' a random fox news segment as his source for a claim regarding refugee violence.  am getting brain freeze sensation simple reflecting 'pon that reality.

 

1% ain't contradictory at all.  the number of refugees is still small compared to the total population. duh.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps breitbart citing breitbart.  ha

[Leferd]

More than failing CNN and half that of FOX News. Sad!

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

Trump wasn't talking about overall crime rates, he was talking about immigrant crime. And I can't see your stupid article any more because it's behind a paywall, but I seem to remember they made a ridiculous claim that only 1% of crime was due to immigrants, which is completely contradicted by charts in my link. Not to mention the article contradicts itself as I pointed out.

again you alter what trump said so it fits what you believe trump menat.  and even then, what trump meant were that he watched a fox new bit 'bout a documentary referencing swedish crime rates.  again, you cannot possibly explain away how asinine it is for a world leader to reference a fox news bit as a policy driver.  the President has potential access to more information than any of us can imagine, but instead of having the state department or intelligence look into the claims by the documentary guy, trump instead repeats as if such stuff is fact.

 

...

 

the fact you are even arguing this is mind boggling.  you are defending the President's use o' a random fox news segment as his source for a claim regarding refugee violence.  am getting brain freeze sensation simple reflecting 'pon that reality.

 

1% ain't contradictory at all.  the number of refugees is still small compared to the total population. duh.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps breitbart citing breitbart.  ha

 

Really, you think he's going to have the State Department and the CIA investigate Swedish crime rates before he makes an off-hand remark in a political speech? Politicians have always relied on news reports to make their points, this is some kind of new standard you came up with.

[Gromnir]

Really, you think he's going to have the State Department and the CIA investigate Swedish crime rates before he makes an off-hand remark in a political speech? Politicians have always relied on news reports to make their points, this is some kind of new standard you came up with.

 

do we think he is gonna have state or intelligence actual check before he makes claims about refugee crime in sweden? yes.  hell yes.  wth not?  you would likely check breitbart, but any schmuck giving a speech at local optimist club would at least check google first. Gromnir has given speeches in US, europe, latin america and asia concerning free speech protections 'round the globe.  we would never make a claim 'bout free speech failures in singapore based on nothing more than a ~2 minute story from cnn or fox. 

 

oh, and the President is no longer a possible candidate running for office.  his ridiculous behaviour with twitter and spontaneous quoting o' unverified sources were amusing eye-roll fodder before he became the most visible elected official o' the most powerful nation on earth.  and heck, trump weren't even referencing fox news, but rather a documentary maker who got a couple minutes o' time on fox. 

 

think mc'fly. think!

 

again, if obama had done the same thing but with a rachel maddow story as his inspiration, he woulda' been crucified by every news agency. 

 

this is ridiculous.  you arguing this is utter ridiculous.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Wrath of Dagon]

Obama told deliberate provable lies and never got called on it because he was the Messiah to the media. Edit: Also needs to be noted Trump wasn't giving a speech on the subject of Swedish immigration and crime. He made an extemporaneous remark on what he saw the night before.

 

Here's a more balanced story from AP: https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-comments-put-focus-swedens-embrace-immigrants-204602185.html

Edited February 22, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[BruceVC]

Obama told deliberate provable lies and never got called on it because he was the Messiah to the media.

 

Here's a more balanced story from AP: https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-comments-put-focus-swedens-embrace-immigrants-204602185.html

I still maintain Obama was an excellent president, yes I now can see some real failures but he did more good than bad ?

 

WOD let me ask you this so I understand your criticism of Obama better, what were the 3 worst things he did or tried to do in your view?

Edited February 22, 2017 by BruceVC

[Wrath of Dagon]

Refusing to follow or enforce the law, letting foreign nationals potentially infected with Ebola into the US, and setting Iran on a path to nuclear weapons, while simultaneously enabling and subsidizing their terrorism activities. That's just off the top of my head though. Oh, yeah, I forgot, withdrawing from Iraq and throwing away all we did there, opening the way for IS.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[Gromnir]

Obama told deliberate provable lies and never got called on it because he was the Messiah to the media.

 

Here's a more balanced story from AP: https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-comments-put-focus-swedens-embrace-immigrants-204602185.html

obama did indeed get the kid glove treatment for the first half of his first term.  however, as we already observed earlier, obama  complained that the media "hates me" as early as 2011.  the media reciprocated by blasting him for his unprecedented efforts to freeze them out.  so, you doing a Putin and claiming need for moral equivalency?  should trump get relaxed treatment or fair treatment?

 

as for the balanced article, it is one o' the only articles we has seen to fail to observe how change in legislation regarding crimes reported as rape were seeming responsible for the increase in sex offense crimes.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-sweden-rape-comments-criticised-donald-trump-immigration_uk_58ac01b4e4b07028b7036683

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/immigration-driving-crime-sweden-heres-what-official-statistics-say-1607827

 

"“In the Swedish system, individual reports regarding a great number of offences may affect and give rise to variations in the statistic,” the body says.

 

"“For instance, when a single case is reported that turns out to involve hundreds or even thousands of instances of offences committed against an individual over the course of many years, every single incident is recorded as an offence in the year it was reported."

 

kinda a major detail to miss, eh?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps bah.  this is idiotic.  am actual arguing with somebody who is defending the President of the United States of America's  reliance on a fox bit, referencing a previously unheard o' documentarian, for his facts regarding refugee violence. nuts.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

 

Breitbart linking to Breitbart as sources is pretty funny. Nothing like meaningless intermediary sources, I guess.

They're not linking to it as proof, they're linking so you can read more if you want to without having to repeat themselves in every article. It's commonly done on the web.

Well in that article, they are. I get they like the clicks but is a bit of a time waster to subject me to another of their articles to find the source of Swedish police wanting to leave their job for example.

 

Cops whining about political correctness hampering them is always fun, on the side.

[Hurlshort]

It amazes me that WoD still brings up Ebola even though it was an obvious case of ridiculous fearmongering.

[Wrath of Dagon]

obama did indeed get the kid glove treatment for the first half of his first term.  however, as we already observed earlier, obama  complained that the media "hates me" as early as 2011.  the media reciprocated by blasting him for his unprecedented efforts to freeze them out.  so, you doing a Putin and claiming need for moral equivalency?  should trump get relaxed treatment or fair treatment?

You're the one who claimed Obama would be "crucified", I simply pointed out that wasn't true, but true to form you then blame me for moral equivalency. As for your ps, see my edit to my previous answer.

[Gromnir]

 

obama did indeed get the kid glove treatment for the first half of his first term.  however, as we already observed earlier, obama  complained that the media "hates me" as early as 2011.  the media reciprocated by blasting him for his unprecedented efforts to freeze them out.  so, you doing a Putin and claiming need for moral equivalency?  should trump get relaxed treatment or fair treatment?

You're the one who claimed Obama would be "crucified", I simply pointed out that wasn't true, but true to form you then blame me for moral equivalency. As for your ps, see my edit to my previous answer.

 

*sigh*

 

obama got relaxed standards, but is no way he coulda' used rachel maddow as his source for facts and gotten away with it.  if that were your point, you are being obtuse beyond reasoning.  serious.  you has become so inured to trumpisms you can't even see the difference.

 

honest.  you are beyond the pale.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Wrath of Dagon]

It amazes me that WoD still brings up Ebola even though it was an obvious case of ridiculous fearmongering.

There was nothing ridiculous about it. One infected person came in, two people got infected from him and will possibly suffer life time consequences, although both fortunately survived. Find the details of Doctors Without Borders dying in spite of taking all possible precautions to see how extremely dangerous that disease is. If it turned out to be more infectious in the early stages, there'd be an infection in the US no one could stop, so we really dodged the bullet that time.

[Wrath of Dagon]

*sigh*

 

obama got relaxed standards, but is no way he coulda' used rachel maddow as his source for facts and gotten away with it.  if that were your point, you are being obtuse beyond reasoning.  serious.  you has become so inured to trumpisms you can't even see the difference.

 

honest.  you are beyond the pale.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Nonsense, Obama could get away with anything, even openly admitting lying to and manipulating the press and Congress: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/17/editorial-ben-rhodes-must-account-for-lies-about-i/

[Gromnir]

 

*sigh*

 

obama got relaxed standards, but is no way he coulda' used rachel maddow as his source for facts and gotten away with it.  if that were your point, you are being obtuse beyond reasoning.  serious.  you has become so inured to trumpisms you can't even see the difference.

 

honest.  you are beyond the pale.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Nonsense, Obama could get away with anything, even openly admitting lying to and manipulating the press and Congress: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/17/editorial-ben-rhodes-must-account-for-lies-about-i/

 

what on earth does democrat Congressmen rolling over have to do with the present situation?

 

"Obama told deliberate provable lies and never got called on it because he was the Messiah to the media."

 

your comment to which we has been responding. 'course 'ccording to your article, is a ny times magazine article which brought deception to light. so...

 

surreal. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Wrath of Dagon]

No, Rhodes admitted to the deception himself in that article, and then crickets in the main stream media. No fiery editorials, no angry tweets, it's like they rolled over and played dead, hoping Obama would stroke their tummy.

[Gromnir]

No, Rhodes admitted to the deception himself in that article, and then crickets in the main stream media. No fiery editorials, no angry tweets, it's like they rolled over and played dead, hoping Obama would stroke their tummy.

keep in mind your article is predictable spin

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/ben-rhodes-and-the-retailing-of-the-iran-deal/481893/

 

so yeah, a one-line bit in a ny times magazine article weren't necessarily taken at face value by everybody.  even so, the media weren't shy 'bout blasting the perceived lack o' truthfulness neither

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/obama-official-says-he-pushed-a-narrative-to-media-to-sell-the-iran-nuclear-deal/2016/05/06/5b90d984-13a1-11e6-8967-7ac733c56f12_story.html?utm_term=.c91ce9f68193

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435136/obamas-no-1-adviser-ben-rhodes-profile-sycophancy-arrogance-incompetence

 

etc.

 

goodly number o' articles, editorials and similar.

 

so... you are again talking nonsense.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 22, 2017 by Gromnir

[Wrath of Dagon]

It wasn't just one line, as the National Review link you provide explains. Especially instructive is what Rhodes said about the main stream reporters and how easy it is to fool them. Yes, it got quite a bit of play in right wing media, but how many people actually heard of it compared to the Sweden brouhaha? Yet the former is orders of magnitude more important than the latter, and was a deliberate, well thought out and carried out strategy of deception, instead of an off-hand remark that's actually completely true, once the media initial wild misinterpretation has been put to bed. Also btw, talk about not-qualified political people running the entire foreign policy.

[Gromnir]

It wasn't just one line, as the National Review link you provide explains. Especially instructive is what Rhodes said about the main stream reporters and how easy it is to fool them. Yes, it got quite a bit of play in right wing media, but how many people actually heard of it compared to the Sweden brouhaha? Yet the former is orders of magnitude more important than the latter, and was a deliberate, well thought out and carried out strategy of deception, instead of an off-hand remark that's actually completely true, once the media initial wild misinterpretation has been put to bed. Also btw, talk about not-qualified political people running the entire foreign policy.

dear lord.  so the issue actual gets attention and condemnation from the media including that bastion o' right-wing media, the washington post, and you are still trying to spin?  lack o' coverage is hardly as you first described, eh? and 'cause some after-the-fact snippet from a nyt magazine piece didn't get the worldwide and instant condemnation trump's baffling and mind boggling assertion received in real time, you see a fundamental difference? if at the time o' the iran deal rhodes had admitted to massaging the media during a national broadcast press conference or speech, you genuine think the media woulda' been quiet? 

 

honest.  you ain't even trying anymore.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Valsuelm]

Val you are far too cynical!

 

I'm not sure what gave you the impression I was cynical. I'm probably one of the least cynical people on this forum.

 

Then again, much is lost in communication when black and white text is all you have....